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SOLD CA - 1991 HDJ81 w/ 1HD-T
- Thread starter FJhammer
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That was Scott"s rig in San Diego right? I should have bought it when I had the chance at $14k. Good luck with the sale, looks like a nice rig.
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- #6
It was, and if he offered you $14k you should have... I should have too. Could have saved some serious coin! None the less, it is a fantastic rig and knowing what he and others have gone through to get them successfully registered here, I think it should stay if at all possible. If no one takes it by the time I transfer, so be it and I'll be taking it with me.
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Legally, the truck is absolutely not CA smog exempt. The rules are different for imported vehicles. Imported diesel vehicles built after some year in the late 60s must be brought in to CARB compliance and get tested regularly. If it has no CARB compliance paperwork it was undoubtedly titled by exploiting a loophole wherein one could fool the DMV into treating it as a US market vehicle by having the vehicle titled in another state before going to register it in CA. This loophole was unfortunately closed in September of 2017 when the VIN verification form was updated. Since it already has a CA title, it may very well continue to fly under the radar until it returns to the earth 80 years and 6 owners from now.
Edit: The cutoff year for smog exemption for imported diesel vehicles is 1980. I got it mixed up with the gas vehicle cutoff, which is 1968.
Edit: The cutoff year for smog exemption for imported diesel vehicles is 1980. I got it mixed up with the gas vehicle cutoff, which is 1968.
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It is not a hijack to point out to potential buyers that your claim that the vehicle is legitimately smog exempt in CA is incorrect. If the CA DMV were to discover the truck is a foreign market vehicle that has been misclassified, the owner would almost certainly lose the ability to register it until it is modified ($$$) into compliance. Saying you're well aware of the issues doesn't make them go away.
I'm no fan of the CARB racket, but it exists and your truck is unfortunately subject to it. You've just been so far successful in tricking the DMV into thinking it is something other than what it is. The ruse may very well never be discovered. I haven't yet heard of a vehicle that was plated this way being found out. But a buyer should be aware of the actual nature of the situation.
I'm no fan of the CARB racket, but it exists and your truck is unfortunately subject to it. You've just been so far successful in tricking the DMV into thinking it is something other than what it is. The ruse may very well never be discovered. I haven't yet heard of a vehicle that was plated this way being found out. But a buyer should be aware of the actual nature of the situation.
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All you've offered so far are ad hominems and name calling.
The core of the matter is that the truck is not truly smog exempt and some apparatchik at the DMV could ruin the party at any time. I suspect most if not all CA owners of imported diesel vehicles who were lucky enough to snag a title before the state put a stop to it are aware of this and have made their peace with it. Anyone thinking of buying into the club should be aware of it too. I don't cruise the mud classifieds with a mind to educate anyone on this issue. I'm calling you out because in your reply to the question about CARB compliance (post #8) you evaded the issue and doubled down on your assertion that the truck is legitimately smog exempt. Again, owners of diesel imports with CA plates should know (as it is now pretty clear you do) the vehicles occupy a potentially tenuous blind spot.
Yes, I have never registered a foreign market diesel vehicle in the state of California. In pointing this out you are clearly implying that by virtue of first hand experience you have knowledge of something in the regulations that makes your success in registering the truck something other than an oversight on the part of the DMV. If you're aware of something that nullifies the very plain language about grey market imports on the CARB and CA DMV websites (links below) then by all means, share with the class.
Also, I may not have first hand experience on the matter, but this guy certainly does:
But, sure, just avoid the issue and dismissively slur me as an environmentalist nutjob yet again. I'm sure to shed some bitter tears onto the upholstery of my old gas guzzling, no-EGR, NOx spewing V8 luxo-barge.
www.dmv.ca.gov
The core of the matter is that the truck is not truly smog exempt and some apparatchik at the DMV could ruin the party at any time. I suspect most if not all CA owners of imported diesel vehicles who were lucky enough to snag a title before the state put a stop to it are aware of this and have made their peace with it. Anyone thinking of buying into the club should be aware of it too. I don't cruise the mud classifieds with a mind to educate anyone on this issue. I'm calling you out because in your reply to the question about CARB compliance (post #8) you evaded the issue and doubled down on your assertion that the truck is legitimately smog exempt. Again, owners of diesel imports with CA plates should know (as it is now pretty clear you do) the vehicles occupy a potentially tenuous blind spot.
Yes, I have never registered a foreign market diesel vehicle in the state of California. In pointing this out you are clearly implying that by virtue of first hand experience you have knowledge of something in the regulations that makes your success in registering the truck something other than an oversight on the part of the DMV. If you're aware of something that nullifies the very plain language about grey market imports on the CARB and CA DMV websites (links below) then by all means, share with the class.
Also, I may not have first hand experience on the matter, but this guy certainly does:
But, sure, just avoid the issue and dismissively slur me as an environmentalist nutjob yet again. I'm sure to shed some bitter tears onto the upholstery of my old gas guzzling, no-EGR, NOx spewing V8 luxo-barge.
Registering an NON-USA, out-of-country, or "Grey Market" car in California
information about the registration of a non-usa or gery market car
www.arb.ca.gov
HTVR 09A
www.dmv.ca.gov
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Actually if you are talking about me it was a legitimate question and I was genuinely interested in buying if it was compliant. Having been through the process not that long ago and having a CA Title JDM recalled by DMV for SMOG due to it being after 79 and it poping up in a Vin Verification Scan I am well aware of the law and probably more intimately acquainted with it that I want to be.
If you are suggesting I am a forum lawyer for asking you a simple question .... which you seem well aware of the fact your truck has a legal title obtain by a means which is not longer available and is not a retrospective exception, no I am not .. if you are asking if I spent endless hours dealing with CARB, Veronica Longhi at CAL Epa, Nancy at GNK Auto and several other Government employees then sure the answer is yes.
If you are asking if I have written determination on the subject - yes I do .
If you are asking if a 1991 HDJ 81 is in a class of its own and has specific written restrictions as opposed to EVERY other year of HDJ 81 then yes it does and it is specifically excluded from exception in some sub categories in case you were wondering and is the worse year to deal with because of this. Why is this the case NFI ...
If you are asking if I have put been through the EO process for CARB approvals then yes I have ....
End result was I sold my HDJ81 to a guy with full disclosure and it is now registered out of state.
Not sure why you have the s***s on because people are asking you to clarify and provide full disclosure unless of course you were hopeful some fellow Mudder would buy it thinking the CA title was a golden ticket. As you say you are well aware of the rules so why hide from the fact .....
Do I think you will be caught out with it who knows but here is a direct quote from some of those annoying bureaucrats I have been dealing with ...
"The issue is that this is a foreign vehicle built for the foreign market and not for the US. That being said, the vehicle has to be physically seen/inspected by the California Air Resources Board regardless of current title status in CA. Without further guidance from that organization, I am not able to complete your paperwork. The markings/plates/tags/stickers are not what is holding you up. Emission standards in California are highly enforced. "
Anyway GLWS I think it is a great buy and if it had the paperwork I would have happily bought it as it is my desire for a TD 80 Series that taught me most of this damn it.
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I apologize if I am incorrect, but I don't believe you are. Having just been through the CARB process, you are well aware of the impossibility of it and therefore knew the answer before you even asked.
What I do think is that you're pissed because you recently tried to import an HDJ81 into the state and the DMV sent you to CARB and you lost. While that sucks and you have my sympathy, what I cannot be sympathetic to is lying to reinforce your argument. The fact is you tried to get the "golden ticket" and failed. You never had a CA title and couldn't register it as you detailed here:
For Sale - 1990 HDJ 81 Turbo Diesel, Manual, Part Time - RHD - San Diego
I have a 1990 HDJ 81 Turbo Diesel Manual 5 Speed Part Time RHD Cruiser for sale. I picked it up a few months ago and have been dealing with CA DMV ever since with no luck. It has become apparent to me that I can not get it Legally Registered in CA so to use it I would need to get out of State...
forum.ih8mud.com
Indeed you even attempted to sell your BJ to people in CA under the guise of an easy swap.
So you took a big risk in trying to import one and got burned, and honestly that sucks. But don't come down on me in my sales thread for it.
I'm just curious if you all and your discussion of a specific licensed vehicles rather than discussion in the abstract are trying to **** it up for all of us? Move this s*** to a general discussion section of MUD where you can generally discuss the legalities of importing JDM vehicles and licensing them in California and elsewhere.
I understand wanting to educate each other but maybe that should be done elsewhere in a more productive way.
I think its time for a sticky on importing and licensing diesel and or other foreign market Land Cruisers.
I understand wanting to educate each other but maybe that should be done elsewhere in a more productive way.
I think its time for a sticky on importing and licensing diesel and or other foreign market Land Cruisers.
Crush 4
SILVER Star
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- #20
I would concur. Although I cannot delete the thread, I can edit out my responses and out of respect for others with these vehicles I would hope the other gentlemen do the same. It is my belief that most of the diesel enthusiasts in CA are already well aware and it was not my intention to elaborate on any of this in an open forum, I just wanted to see if any LC diesel enthusiasts were interested in the truck. Sadly the sale thread turned into a s*** show.
For everyone who showed interest in the truck, thanks! It will be available till I leave in June. If anyone has any questions or would like more information, pm me and I will get back to you.
For everyone who showed interest in the truck, thanks! It will be available till I leave in June. If anyone has any questions or would like more information, pm me and I will get back to you.
