Very interesting
I would like to see if anyone had broken the front diff with a stock tire size?
I would like to see if anyone had broken the front diff with a stock tire size?
Broken Differential Data
- Thread starter paflytyer
- Start date
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Muddy Bean
Breaking something or fixing something
Yep
Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD while navigating gnarly trail. Typos are inherent.
I think I broke my Front Diff this weekend. Binds and pops loudly when I turn. Same as others, wheel spin going up a hill...and loud clunk.
I did the test with front end off the ground and both tires spun the same direction. Anyone recommend a shop or someone that can help in the DFW area?
I did the test with front end off the ground and both tires spun the same direction. Anyone recommend a shop or someone that can help in the DFW area?
Bomar
SILVER Star
Call Josh @ Baertrax 972-406-9363. He knows what he is doing. www.baertrax.com website show a bunch of jeep stuff but he and his wife both drive Toyotas. He did some work on my 100 when I lived there.
my '99 2 pinion front diff started getting more and more noisy after a few medium-power slides around corners on icy tarmac. Neither center or rear locked at the time. I guess a wheel spun on the ice, then immediately gripped hard on bare tarmac, which (over)loaded the diff.
98 LC no locker.
2 years ago in the winter parked across the street from my kids school. There was a lot of snow so I ended up driving up into it as I was in a hurry. After the hour or so I cam back out and I was stuck. Somewhat hi-centered in the snow. Just rocked it back and forth in 4 high. then I selected the center diff locker and tried again, then I put it in 4Low and with the wheels turned all the way to the left the front left wheel cam down and hit dry pavement, then it busted. Ended up replacing it with a front dif from a 2001 - supposed to be better somehow so less likely to bind up and break again.
2 years ago in the winter parked across the street from my kids school. There was a lot of snow so I ended up driving up into it as I was in a hurry. After the hour or so I cam back out and I was stuck. Somewhat hi-centered in the snow. Just rocked it back and forth in 4 high. then I selected the center diff locker and tried again, then I put it in 4Low and with the wheels turned all the way to the left the front left wheel cam down and hit dry pavement, then it busted. Ended up replacing it with a front dif from a 2001 - supposed to be better somehow so less likely to bind up and break again.
x2, good person to deal with also.
Thank you Bomar. Calling him now.
My recent 06 LX purchased had its complete diff assemble replaced. From the dealers invoice loud noises from front end. Drained oil with lots of metal.
100% stock
Never off road
Never with the center diff locked - owner was not sure what it was for
Blew going down the freeway
Flip side -
My 99 with 155K has been flogged many many times never a problem
Obviously there are real and true issues here, but part of me still would like to see the actual numbers.
In a conversation with Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, he stated he thought the 4-pinion 100-series front diff was just as strong as the 80-series front diff, yet I don't think we see near as many reports from 80s.
In a conversation with Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, he stated he thought the 4-pinion 100-series front diff was just as strong as the 80-series front diff, yet I don't think we see near as many reports from 80s.
It is my personal belief a lot of the problems have been in the setup siting my '99 as an example.
Loose setup, add in carrier flex, and a little too much skinny pedal
A tight setup is more forgiving when it comes to the above.
Not to open a
but add in the shocking from ATRAC
Not to open a
Yeah, that's a can.
I can't see how ATRAC puts more shock on the drivetrain than a wheel suddenly getting traction on dry pavement (slick road) or sudden contact with rock (off road). I've heard that there are stories of ATRAC breaking diffs, but thus far it's an urban legend to me. I call bull$hit.
Ask the owners of some of the top Land Cruiser shops about ATRAC front diff failure. IIRC Slee theorize the failure of his front diff failure on the Lexus years ago to ATRAC.
I see ATRAC a little different then your example... take spinning wheel and transfer all the torque instantly to stop or possible bound wheel.
Just listening to ATRAC work above 2000 rpm sounds like something is broke
I see ATRAC a little different then your example... take spinning wheel and transfer all the torque instantly to stop or possible bound wheel.
From what I've experienced in my (admittedly limited) exposure to ATRAC on my LX is that it is much more smooth than what you describe. I never felt like it transfers "all the torque instantly," certainly no more instantaneous than a spinning wheel finding sudden traction on rock. Maybe I'm a little more restrained with my skinny pedal.
I've always wheeled with the "double foot" method with my left foot covering the brake pedal at all times and right on the gas. When I approach an obstacle, I feather the gas lightly and feather the brake lightly to avoid any wheel spin. I also do not turn the steering wheel very much at all while applying gas, and never give it gas when I have to crank the wheels to one side or the other. I've done this method in a CJ5, CJ7 (hand throttles), 3 XJs, a ZJ, an DiscoII, and my 100, and I've literally never broken anything on the trail.
Some call it luck, but I think inducing wheel spin and then having one wheel find traction while the opposite side isn't turning is a recipe for breakage on any truck. I did some pretty extreme trails in one my XJs before I was locked like Spring Creek when it was wet, and I made it through by limiting my wheel spin with the brakes and giving just slight amount of gas. I have run quite a few trails in my 100 including several in Moab and had zero problems with my diff when others have in the same spots. I also ran all the trails in Moab without damaging my stock rear bumper which several people made joking bets that I would rip it off and gave me high fives after the run when I had zero damage
EDIT: this only works for trucks without ATRAC like mine
.
Some call it luck, but I think inducing wheel spin and then having one wheel find traction while the opposite side isn't turning is a recipe for breakage on any truck. I did some pretty extreme trails in one my XJs before I was locked like Spring Creek when it was wet, and I made it through by limiting my wheel spin with the brakes and giving just slight amount of gas. I have run quite a few trails in my 100 including several in Moab and had zero problems with my diff when others have in the same spots. I also ran all the trails in Moab without damaging my stock rear bumper which several people made joking bets that I would rip it off and gave me high fives after the run when I had zero damage
EDIT: this only works for trucks without ATRAC like mine
.
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I've always wheeled with the "double foot" method with my left foot covering the brake pedal at all times and right on the gas. When I approach an obstacle, I feather the gas lightly and feather the brake lightly to avoid any wheel spin. I also do not turn the steering wheel very much at all while applying gas, and never give it gas when I have to crank the wheels to one side or the other. I've done this method in a CJ5, CJ7 (hand throttles), 3 XJs, a ZJ, an DiscoII, and my 100, and I've literally never broken anything on the trail.
Some call it luck, but I think inducing wheel spin and then having one wheel find traction while the opposite side isn't turning is a recipe for breakage on any truck. I did some pretty extreme trails in one my XJs before I was locked like Spring Creek when it was wet, and I made it through by limiting my wheel spin with the brakes and giving just slight amount of gas. I have run quite a few trails in my 100 including several in Moab and had zero problems with my diff when others have in the same spots. I also ran all the trails in Moab without damaging my stock rear bumper which several people made joking bets that I would rip it off and gave me high fives after the run when I had zero damage
I drive with the same technique and used it to great success in my 80. However, what I'm learning with my LX is that double-footing defeats ATRAC. As soon as you feather the brake, the ATRAC shuts down. I found myself on an obstacle in the San Rafael Swell this summer where my double-foot brake feathering worked against me. I'd get some chattery ATRAC action and a little movement and I'd go straight to feathering the brake pedal with my left foot. ATRAC would shut down and I'd quickly go to bouncing rather than chattery forward movement. Once I kept my left foot on the dead pedal and applied steady low RPM accelerator (certainly below 2000 RPM), ATRAC was able to pull me through, just as advertised. In a way, ATRAC is like the double-foot technique, with the difference of being able to feather the brake on only one wheel at a time instead of all four at once. The bouncing on and off of traction at the wheels was far more hazardous than the ATRAC.
Recognize that I do not have any locked axles, so I think I see the worst possible erratic transfer of traction through front or rear differentials, ATRAC or otherwise.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not completely enamored of ATRAC. I'd rather have a selectable locker in the rear and have ATRAC up front. But I think ATRAC is better than an open diff for traction and for the drivetrain.
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Sorry I should have clarified - I don't have ATRAC on my 98, so I understand my method would not work in cases with ATRAC. It would be pretty cool to be able to manually/selectively brake one wheel (particularly on the front end) since I can imagine that even up to 2,000 rpm the wheelspin can be great enough to cause driveline stress when the brakes kick in and traction happen. I think the double foot method works quite well in cases where the truck doesn't have an electronic aid that basically renders the method useless.
