Braking mystery. A GHOST is applying my brakes!

[dmaddox]

Ned is the name of the ghost that is applying my brakes. He gets a kick out of it.


I have spent HOURS (a lot of them) trying to fix this.


RIG: 1963 Cruiser, stock.

INITIAL ISSUE: You drive it for 20-50 miles, brake start applying until lock up. Get out, open any of the 8 bleeders, and your good to go.

INITIAL FIX: I put a power booster setup on there, re-bled, set pedal height, etc, etc, etc. . .

Still, after so many miles, they will apply within a 1 min period until they are locked up.

WHAT I HAVE CHECKED: All 8 cylinders, all lines, all "ways", all bleeders, adjusted all pads, adjusted pedal height, set correct rod length, put new return spring on pedal, re-bled again. (still locked up on me) So. . .

Then, a few weeks ago I flat towed it. Disconnected the drive shaft's and flat towed it with my 80 series. Guess what? 60 miles down the road I had a cloud of smoke behind me as all 4 locked up on it again!

Ned will not leave me alone.

I have replaced everything, checked everything, and I just don't get it. I have pled nearly 2 liters through that system, and I mean BLED it, hammer bleed, everything. The fluid that comes out is crystal clear and there is no water, air, or debris in that system anywhere.

Anyone else ever meet Ned?

Cheers - Dallas

 

[amaurer]

I'm guessing your brakes are out of adjustment and you're dragging one.

There was a post a while back with very similar symptoms which turned out to be from a brake line too close to a header - it was heating up and boiling the fluid which locked the brakes from the pressure.

Since yours does it with the engine off too, I'm guessing your heat is coming from friction and the fluid in the cylinders is expanding.

Quick experiment - drive it until it locks up, and check to see which drum is scorching hot.

 

[F-junker]

Holy s*** that Ned has got to go man. I'd call the ghosthunters and see if they would do a feature.
I've heard of some interesting brake issues but this one is strange. I'd go with overly adjusted shoes but heck I'd never heard of an issue were all 4 lock up, what kind of booster did you use? It never did this before the booster did it? Is this a hydraulic Hydrobooster from an astro?

 

[Downey]

If you had some pressure remaining in the brake lines after you shut off the engine (I had a defective booster once that did that), you could possibly have the same result. The slight brake drag would not be significant when brakes are cold, but would heat up very quickly once the vehicle is in motion whether engine is running or not.

 

[JohnnyC]

you should check the adjustment rod between the pedal arm and the master

If it's miss adjusted it will build pressure every time you apply the brakes...then will lock up.

Some what of a comon thing...had it happen a few times myself.

 

[loosechange]

I am assuming you still have drums, but I would check the check ball in the master behind the utlet of your brakeline...a spring and ball actually.. I believe the brakes checkball should bes behind the initial brake line comin gout of the MC...its a big brass nut looking thing when unscrewedshould be a smallspring and a ball bearing...I think you have the single resivuor. I have had the same issue on a 72 I replaced the spring and ball in the MC...good luck though. I maybe wrong but its worth a try?

Izzy

 

[Mace]

you should check the adjustment rod between the pedal arm and the master

If it's miss adjusted it will build pressure every time you apply the brakes...then will lock up.

Some what of a comon thing...had it happen a few times myself.

Ding ding ding..

Pull the master and reset the adjustment rod inside the booster itself.

it should not be touching the master cylinder at all.

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

I know Ned. Heat made my Ned come around. On a long drive during a cool day, Ned would decide when it was time to stop. On a hot day Ned would decide that he just didn't feel like going for a drive unless you cracked a bleeder. Ned also liked to play tricks like killing the battery. He would make enough pressure to light the brake lights (pressure switch) while just sitting around with nothing to do....................

My Ned, and a couple other Neds I know were in a stock rebuilt single circuit master cylinder. I thought that he just haunted 25's though.

Check what these modern folks with power boosters have to say, because it's the same idea (just an inch or so behind my Ned ). But, if he's still with you after that, I'll chime in. Just don't want to confuse the issue.

 

[mr_manny]

Ding ding ding..

Pull the master and reset the adjustment rod inside the booster itself.

it should not be touching the master cylinder at all.

x3...ask me how I know

 

[dmaddox]

Well I pulled the M/C and booster out of a good running car. And I have adjusted the pedal up and down the spectrum with the same results. I have even adjusted the rod so short the pedal hits the floor floppy and then back a few turns so that my brakes are 1/2" off the floor and it still locks up.

If there is indeed an internal rod between the booster and master, I am guessing a misalignment would have cause the previous car to have the same issue.

To be honest, I have no idea here. I have adjusted that rod all over the map, and the brake pads too. I am going to adjust the brakes again (looser) to see if that is indeed the issue, I am at a loss.

Last, how do I adjust the rod inside the booster? The design this booster has, that rod does not come out. I had to weld a toyota adjuster onto the end of it, so that it would connect into my pedal shaft.
How does the shaft in the booster adjust?

Later,

Dallas

 

[dmaddox]

PER MY PREVIOUS UPDATE, here is a picture of the master/booster:

 

[ranger]

Hummm. Along time ago I pulled a good known master cyl out a car and put in my cruiser, it did the same thing as what you're experiencing. I put a different master cyl on it and I didn't have the problem again.

 

[Mace]

What car did you get that master/booster out of?

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

RIG: 1963 Cruiser, stock.

Not. My issue does not apply here, I feel for you, but can't help.

 

[bigassbike]

Who you gonna call?

Not helpful whatsoever - couldn't help it.

 

[dmaddox]

What car did you get that master/booster out of?

97 Suzuki - and I thought it may be a bad booster/master, so I went and got another identical one. Same issue, both setups.

My best guess is that somewhere, wheel bearing, brake shoe friction, etc.....is causing enough heat to expand the brake fluid to all 8 wheel cylinders and thus locking them up.

I just don't know beyond that.

Dallas

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

My best guess is that somewhere, wheel bearing, brake shoe friction, etc.....is causing enough heat to expand the brake fluid

Yes. That is entirely normal. Your issue is that the pressure can not be relieved.

Where would you get the idea that a disc brake master cylinder from a '97 Suzuki, an unknown and yet to be determined valve behind that, and four wheel drum brakes might be compatible?

 

[Mace]

which brakes lock up? Front, rear or both?

 

[dmaddox]

All 4 lock up.

Keep in mind Jim, that this issue happened with the old single circuit system as well. It's just that adding/updating the M/C setup didn't fix the issue, and I wanted to let you guys all know what I have done.

Which is why I am pointing my finger at the wheel setup themselves, and not the m/c & booster - due to this issue being the exact same prior to this upgrade.

Just seems a bit strange, since I have flushed, cleaned, and rebuilt about the entire system.

see ya - dallas

 

[JohnnyC]

still sound like adjustment IMO
screw the adjustment rod out aprox an inch and retest