Brake Discs, Most Bang For The Buck?
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actually, i have o'reilly front pads that have a lifetime warranty. So far they have performed very well and are almost worn out. I told the guy at the counter when i purchased them that i would be seeing him again, and he laughed and said that's fine. Well, probably by the end of the month i'll be taking them back for a free replacement.
I have OEM front/rear rotors. No warpage or anything so far.
I have OEM front/rear rotors. No warpage or anything so far.
Cary,
What about OEM rotors along with say Porterfield pads for the 100 series on an 80?
Until this thread came up I was seriously considering going with DBA or Powerstop slotted rotors with 100 series OEM pads. I guess I like others have "fallen" for the voodoo magic that the slotted rotors supposedly offer
So much to learn, so little time
It should work great. You can also call Porterfield to see if they make a pad specifically for the 80 (they will usually make one up if they don't).
I'm with CJ and Cary on this one. IME, crossdrilled rotors don't do a damn thing for performance. They look cool, they 'supposedly' add more surface area to be cooled, but will also crack under heat stress. Even the porsche 993TT that uses C-D in their stock app, never raced with them. And the 993 holes are cast into the rotor (not drilled and chamfered), and they still will crack at the track.
Slotting for gas effect is old school from the days of different bonding agent. I do slot for two reasons on the race car I service/prep. 1 is for rain wicking properties, and 2 is that I have the slots machined to the min spec depth of the rotor. In terms of "performance", I see better braking performance in the rain with slots, but no difference in the dry at all (4 wheel 4 piston race brakes on 2700lb audi turbo quattro). And no measureable difference in back to back comparos in a controlled track environment. In terms of performance, the best gain is to add ducting to the brakes, BMW does it on most of their production cars since 1980's. This will reduce the time to fade, but really doesn't reduce stopping distance per sae.
The 80 has some of the best brakes in the SUV class IMO. 4 piston fixed calipers are expensive, and very few other truck manufacturers use them. I applaud Mr. T for being stubborn, even my 4R turbo had 4 piston fixed. That said, all brakes will get hot, and when they do, you need to disapate heat fast. That's a ducting issue gain, not a crossdrilling issue.
Call up Coleman Rotors (they are the Nascar rotor boys), ask them if they crossdrill, they'll do it, and charge you, AND try to talk you out of it, btdt. I have to explain many times that I'm just ordering them, not endorsing the idea.
And yes, roneyJ, I use cheap 'premium' S-M pads from Autozone without any difference in brake wear or performance, with trailer or without. I ran them at Steamboat 2 years ago even, and when I got to the point where 'fade' happened, I had already abused the amount of time I should have been on the track.
That said TC, I have put on crossdrilled/slotted and cad plated rotors with toyota factory pads on the 93 I have in marketplace. I have driven both trucks back to back, and see no advantage to either truck, other than I spent a lot less on my ride. I don't agree with the fact that a 4700lb truck will realize any gains whatsoever crossdrilling a rotor, even if one believes the theory that more surface area cools them faster.
HTH and my .02
Scott J
NaterGator
On Gilligan's Island
I can't believe it, I'm agreeing with Scott. 
No kidding lolI can't believe it, I'm agreeing with Scott.
Okay, this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm a man of my word, just to give the people without experience with DBA drilled rotors going back to back with DBA slotted rotors (which is everyone apparently), whenever I wear out my drilled & slotted DBA's I will swap to my slotted only DBA's which are sitting in storage. I wont bleed the brakes, change the pads, change the tires, nothing. All I will do is swap the rotors, break them in the right way and then do tests - 20 to 0, 30 to 0 etc. I'll make sure ambient temps are similar, use the exact same spot of parking lot locally, etc. Whatever the difference is data wise i will post up. Meanwhile since I seem to be the only one with the DBA slotted and drilled that have held up well, and the only person to compare it to two other 80's with religious maintenance and all OEM stuff, I'll politely suggest that those who are guessing about what it might be like, keep on guessing! 
Expect this thread to open up again in the next twelve to twenty four to thirty six months but again I will follow this through.
Expect this thread to open up again in the next twelve to twenty four to thirty six months but again I will follow this through.
screeching to a halt....
Shaun
There is no data to support better stopping distances with C-D, because that's not a function of cross drilling. That is a function of clamping force and pad only. IOW, put a better pad on, you will get better braking (up to fade). The *only* thing crossdrilling does in *theory* is it gives more surface area for cooling. This realizes the biggest benefit on narrow rotors, ala motorcycle or shifter cart, where the percentage gain of surface area is the greatest, airflow can go thru the rotor and wheel easily, and the rotor is small and thin. On the 80, you can't put enough holes in it to give you a surface area gain that will make a difference.
I abuse my brakes pretty regularly, with cheap S-M pads and tow all the time. The last time I felt *fade* was at Steamboat after 45minutes of full boost ice track runs. I drove 1 mile to cool down the brakes, and went back at it.
I don't understand this at all. Crossdrilling can't reduce stopping distances, that's not a function of that mod. Think about it, a crossdrilled rotor has less pad contact to surface of the rotor, all else being equal. And at the heat point of fade, a couple % better surface area isn't going to do a darn thing for cooling. You get a set of brakes hot, it's not the crossdrilled that's going to cool them, it's not using them at all.
If you want to cool your brakes, duct air to them, it's cheap and proven effective mod, especially if there is no ducting to them from the factory. I used to help a friend take home depot drier duct and zip tie it to his bumper, so he could run his stock quattro at the track, then snip the zip ties at the end of the day. Worked like a charm.
Shaun, you can't measure something that is outside the ability of the variable to affect. Put simply there is no correlation of crossdrilling to braking distance on the 80. I doubt there is a correlation of crossdrilling to fade resistance either, but I'd just rephrase there is just a higher correlation of ducting to fade resistance.
Don't waste your money on this unless you think it looks cool. Said that many times over the years. Lots of folks still do it. Edit: A lot of folks marketing it, including Brembo and others. Tough to find a good tech article actually on the benefit. Try this one Shaun
http://www.mazda6tech.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=50
Scott J
Shaun
There is no data to support better stopping distances with C-D, because that's not a function of cross drilling. That is a function of clamping force and pad only. IOW, put a better pad on, you will get better braking (up to fade). The *only* thing crossdrilling does in *theory* is it gives more surface area for cooling. This realizes the biggest benefit on narrow rotors, ala motorcycle or shifter cart, where the percentage gain of surface area is the greatest, airflow can go thru the rotor and wheel easily, and the rotor is small and thin. On the 80, you can't put enough holes in it to give you a surface area gain that will make a difference.
I abuse my brakes pretty regularly, with cheap S-M pads and tow all the time. The last time I felt *fade* was at Steamboat after 45minutes of full boost ice track runs. I drove 1 mile to cool down the brakes, and went back at it.
I don't understand this at all. Crossdrilling can't reduce stopping distances, that's not a function of that mod. Think about it, a crossdrilled rotor has less pad contact to surface of the rotor, all else being equal. And at the heat point of fade, a couple % better surface area isn't going to do a darn thing for cooling. You get a set of brakes hot, it's not the crossdrilled that's going to cool them, it's not using them at all.
If you want to cool your brakes, duct air to them, it's cheap and proven effective mod, especially if there is no ducting to them from the factory. I used to help a friend take home depot drier duct and zip tie it to his bumper, so he could run his stock quattro at the track, then snip the zip ties at the end of the day. Worked like a charm.
Shaun, you can't measure something that is outside the ability of the variable to affect. Put simply there is no correlation of crossdrilling to braking distance on the 80. I doubt there is a correlation of crossdrilling to fade resistance either, but I'd just rephrase there is just a higher correlation of ducting to fade resistance.
Don't waste your money on this unless you think it looks cool. Said that many times over the years. Lots of folks still do it. Edit: A lot of folks marketing it, including Brembo and others. Tough to find a good tech article actually on the benefit. Try this one Shaun
http://www.mazda6tech.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=50
Scott J
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Hello, pot, this is kettle.
Ok, you both made your point, any more back and forth and I will delete the last few posts.
Guess I'll throw my $.02 in the hat here...
I put DBA drilled and slotted rotors with a set of Performance Friction pads on my old Cherokee, the result - I could almost do endos. Tried the same set up on my '05 Tundra, the result - rotors were warped within 40 miles. Got a second set of rotors, and had the same results. Went to Raybestos rotors and PF pads, better than before, but not as good as stock. Now I have OE rotors and Hawk pads, still not as good as stock, but better. If I were keeping the Tundra, I would go back to all OE. I don't believe that OE is ALWAYS the best choice, but in this case I think it is. JMHO
I put DBA drilled and slotted rotors with a set of Performance Friction pads on my old Cherokee, the result - I could almost do endos. Tried the same set up on my '05 Tundra, the result - rotors were warped within 40 miles. Got a second set of rotors, and had the same results. Went to Raybestos rotors and PF pads, better than before, but not as good as stock. Now I have OE rotors and Hawk pads, still not as good as stock, but better. If I were keeping the Tundra, I would go back to all OE. I don't believe that OE is ALWAYS the best choice, but in this case I think it is. JMHO
What I thought drilled disc brakes were for -
- lower unsprung weight (discs are made of iron and that is a lot of unsprung weight)
- looks
- hi performance- don't know exactly how but that's the impression I have.
For the ultimate, right now it is ceramic disc brakes (Porsche). Fantastic heat sink and super lightweight (half the weight of hi-performance iron discs). Incidentally, these discs are cross-drilled in a radial pattern.
Why don't cars use wavey discs? They are common in bikes and have some great advantages-
-larger surface area
-cleans the pads really well
-typically lighter
-these are drilled for weight savings but I've never seen it in a car application.
But in reality, any wear items get replaced courtesy of C-dan. Makes life easy. It is interesting though. I have a feeling improving the brake system itself would reap much larger gains but then again, it would be exponentially more difficult to do.
- lower unsprung weight (discs are made of iron and that is a lot of unsprung weight)
- looks
- hi performance- don't know exactly how but that's the impression I have.
For the ultimate, right now it is ceramic disc brakes (Porsche). Fantastic heat sink and super lightweight (half the weight of hi-performance iron discs). Incidentally, these discs are cross-drilled in a radial pattern.
Why don't cars use wavey discs? They are common in bikes and have some great advantages-
-larger surface area
-cleans the pads really well
-typically lighter
-these are drilled for weight savings but I've never seen it in a car application.
But in reality, any wear items get replaced courtesy of C-dan. Makes life easy. It is interesting though. I have a feeling improving the brake system itself would reap much larger gains but then again, it would be exponentially more difficult to do.
I got my front rotors and pads from NAPA using my friend's fleet discount. The rotors were $25 each, and the pads were around $45 for the set. The pads have a lifetime warranty. Hopefully they will last longer than a year
They seem to stop about the same as the OEM's that were on there previously. Of course, I dont tow anything or have any long downhill stretches where I live.
Scott, buuuudy, give up guy, yer not gonna change my mind with all this theoretical talk. Look, this is the way it works ... I've had the Drilled & Slotted rotors on for over 75K with NO problems. My vehicle stops faster than the two 80's my father has had which were purchased from the dealer and maintained by the dealer with all OEM parts. For some short little while we actually had the same tires (Michelin LTX's) before I got rid of those to go to the Revos. With the exception of my ARB, my sliders, and my rig's rescue kit (80 lbs) our vehicles weighed the same. We more or less did back to back "seat of our pants" tests and we both were completely convinced that my 80 stopped faster than the two other ones. I know, I know, that's not scientific, its not this or its not that or its not some tech paper saying something different but it is my real world experience and expertise regarding specifically DBA Drilled & Slotted rotors, specifically on an 80 series rig, etc etc etc.
People can go on and on about how the holes cannot help and how the holes might actually hurt and I'll acknowledge whatchyer sayin but also acknowledge that all that theoretical talk cannot stop my vehicle, only my brakes can stop my vehicle. Duh right? Besides all that the other thing that you have to remember is that I have actually already purchased replacement rotors for my DBA D &S and guess what, they are the DBA Slotted only rotors of the latest type (Kangaroo Paw), temperature treated, etc. So in a way the argument about holes is already approaching obsolete for me too cause sooner or later ...
Ohh, for the record, I expect it will be later !
That's All.
I can settle this pretty easy, my 350z has cross drilled and slotted DBA Golds and I have a V35 Skyline (Infiniti G35 in the States) which has factory fitted Brembos(NOT cross drilled or slotted) both cars are very similar and I see/feel no differences in the braking ability. As I stated in a previous post here that when I went from OEM Nissan to the DBA Golds, I still didnt notice a difference. Seems like they are all the same until you take them to the track which I will not be doing, so I find it all irrelavant for an 80 series.
