Bolting a hardtop on a FST

[The911s]

I know this has been discussed various times before, but I'd like to get the purists' perspective here...

I have a FST with no bolt holes for the hard top on the tub. I also have a hard top (non-corrugated) that's currently on the car. From my reading it sounds as if the tricky part is the windshield-top interface and that's already been done by the PO (not exactly clean, but I can revisit it later).

The problem is the top is not bolted to the tub and I think it might be good to attach it somehow.

Looks like the factory hard top models have nutserts welded to the channel on the tub. The two options that are most obvious to me are to either press in some similar nutserts, or just drill a thru-hole through the channel and capture the bolts with nuts on the bottom. And then there's the third option that's been suggested before, but seems cheesy, which is clamps. The benefit of that is that I won't have to drill holes in the tub.

How blasphemous will either of these choices be? I do want to be able to safely run the HT for now, even if I go back to a ST at some point. But I am also hesitant to start drilling.



BTW, from the attached pics, is it possible to tell what year the HT is? I am assuming those handles are not stock

I do have the original doors, but they're about 300 miles away. I can't wait to go get them. Do you think the FST doors will fit with the current setup?

 

[whitey45]

Did this come from the bay area,I think I remember it being for sale a while back.I never knew it was a fst from the pics or description.Hard top can be anywhere from 66 to 75ish?The fst doors will work with the hard top,been running them for years.The hard top doesnt need too much to hold down,you could run 4 camper shell clamps and be done with it,if you dont want holes,or to do it right,nutcerts would be pretty nice! ps ,been a porsche tech for 18 years!

 

[The911s]

Yep, it was for sale in Antioch. I got it for $5500, all original running gear in good nick, no rust or anything, but I didn't realize how much less the early ones were worth so I might have overpaid. You gotta learn somehow!

Glad you don't think the nutserts would be too much of a hack...

 

[whitey45]

I thought that was the one,it was for sale for a few months and I was tempted to look at it,if I knew it was a fst I would have looked at it,but...did it come with any of the original bows for the soft top! These early fst fj40s are hard to find and if it is rust free,you did ok at 5500. If you want to go factory canvas,Jim on here ,(ocdbeetle) makes great repro canvas tops to fit the factory bows,I have one and love it!

 

[The911s]

Nope, the bows are long gone AFAIK. I am interested in going soft top again some day so I will try to fab up or buy some bows. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to recreate if you can find one to take measurements off of, unless I'm wrong. Just a bunch of pipes and a few brackets, right?

Thanks for the suggestion, I will hit up ocdbeetle when I finally get around to it.

 

[Icantdive55]

Nice rig

Welcome to the 65 era. I have a 65 FST in rebuild mode and I'm excited to get it going again. The bows seem simple enough but the part that surrounds the door is another story. Some have fabed up their own and they look great but I don't have that talent. Just keep looking and don't be in a hurry. I looked off and on for a couple of years then an OE set fell in my lap so hard it knocked the $$ out of my wallet. But now I have them! Hey do you think you could show a close up of the jerry can holder on the spare tire. I want to see if it is like mine.

Oh ya my FST came with a later hard top and I was going to clamp it down until I found a Soft top, not an issue now. I'm trying to stay as close to OE as possible. I have a short thread that shows a pic. I paid 2800 for mine and had to tow it home a few years ago. Some think I over paid but in the end it was worth it to ME and thats what counts.

 

[The911s]

Hey do you think you could show a close up of the jerry can holder on the spare tire. I want to see if it is like mine.

I'll try to get a picture next time I'm outside in the daylight, which will probably be Saturday. Danged job...

As for overpaying, my philosophy is basically that if I paid 5500, the most I could have overpaid by is 5500. If I went out and bought a new car I'd lose way more than that right off the lot!

 

[cjgoode]

Looks nice, price seems reasonable for a nice looking drivable fj40. Long ago, do not remember if it was on a jeep or an fj40 I had, we made steel plates with a hole tapped out and just glued them under neath where the nut sert would have gone. We used an epoxy and tightened the top down before it set. They never came off and worked well. That way you do not have to weld and mess up the paint. Clamps always work great also but can get in the way.

 

[Living in the Past]

When I saw the title I was thinking of something like this. Your could always use straps like this one.

I don't know if I would trust non-welded inserts. Does your stop top model have the welded nut on the back side of the B pillar in the tub? There should then be a bolt that tightens the tube on the front side of the hard top. This helps hold the top on. I would also make sure the tubes haven't been cut short. This is very common to have them cut. They fit into a hole towards the bottom. If it's short tighteding the that bolt will only bend the tube.

Does your windshield still have the channel like in picture two welded on. A factory soft top from this time should have one welded on.


X2 about keeping your eye open for OEM bows. I picked up these with the top off mud for a couple hundred bucks. Cost me just as much to ship it whole but I think it was worth it.

 

[cjgoode]

We drilled the holes all the way through to the underside and the plate with the threaded hole was on the underside. The epoxy to glue it on was just to make it real easy to take the top off and not have to worry about the nuts, or needing two wrenches. They would only possibly come off when not bolted down. We were teenagers and it was 30 years ago, but worked great.

 

[The911s]

When I saw the title I was thinking of something like this. Your could always use straps like this one.

haha, that's brilliant. too bad i'm already using my tie straps to hold my battery down

Does your stop top model have the welded nut on the back side of the B pillar in the tub? There should then be a bolt that tightens the tube on the front side of the hard top. This helps hold the top on. I would also make sure the tubes haven't been cut short. This is very common to have them cut. They fit into a hole towards the bottom. If it's short tighteding the that bolt will only bend the tube.

Here are the front & back of the b-pillar, is this what you were describing? Looks like I have the hole but there is no bolt in it? I assume the bolt on the front side you're referring to is what connects the tube to the hard top itself. I will check out whether the tube has been cut when I pull the HT this week. As you can see, there is a lot of chipped paint on this thing and a respray is in the future--maybe this summer, working outside in the cold at night sux.

Does your windshield still have the channel like in picture two welded on. A factory soft top from this time should have one welded on.

I forgot to look, but will check when I get home.

Hey do you think you could show a close up of the jerry can holder on the spare tire. I want to see if it is like mine.

Here ya go!

 

[Living in the Past]

Second picture shows a hole that it look like some extra metal was welded in that area. Is that hole thread? If it is that the hole for the bolt to lock the tube. Not if it threaded and the whole tube is there install a bolt and lock it down. Sois the top just sitting on ther now?

 

[Icantdive55]

Thanks for the pic of the jerry can holder. Same concept as mine but a little different.

 

[67azcruizr]

that spare tire looks sweet

 

[JohnnyC]

con-ferr jerry can holders are cool

x2 on the sweet spare...dry rotted ...but cool

 

[The911s]

OK, so there's some news...

Removed the top today with the help of some guys from the So Cal Trail Crew. They were awesome and helped me out a ton. My initial plan was just to mark the hole locations and install nutserts, but after a closer look it doesn't look like it can be done properly. There are two main problems.

1. The top can't sit all the way down on the tub because the ST bracket on the windshield lifts it up about 1/2". If you look back at that 1st pic I posted, you will see about 1/2" between the top and the tub at the b-pillar post, where there should be a minimal gap. It is not sitting all the way flush, and that's due to it resting on the ST bracket on the windshield. Hence, the windshield is bearing a lot more pressure than is desirable. I don't really feel comfortable with it acting as a structural member. haha.
2. For whatever reason, the holes on the HT are not centered on the tub channel (where the factory HT ones have holes pre-drilled)--they are very close to the inside edge (as if the top were narrower than the tub ) leaving not enough metal to put the nutserts into. Perhaps the tub or hard top are slightly warped. In any case installing nutserts will end up a lot more hack than I had envisioned. I'm about as weirded out by this as I am listening to Art Bell talk about alien abductions, so please let me know if you have any possible explanation as to why this could happen!

So long story short, it's close but no cigar. Even replacing the windshield with a HT one leaves you with mysterious yet significant problem #2. I think it's forced my hand to pick up a soft top and part with the HT. As cool as it is, it just doesn't belong on this car and I don't want to hack up the tub to make it fit. My whole goal in the beginning was to make the HT work, but without bastardizing the tub, but it looks like this is not gonna happen. And it goes without saying that driving around on LA freeways without the top bolted on is a losing proposition.

I will be scouring Mud for soft top bows and hitting up OCDBeetle for a top soon. Let me know if you are in the market for a HT or have some bows sitting in a dusty corner of your garage!

Photo of the FJ with the top off!

 

[Dusty 66]

1965 Good looking rig !

Put a Soft top on it and be done with It.

soft tops are cooler looking anyway