The new diesel fuels can be confusing. LowSulfurDiesel, which Canada and Europe have been using for more than 5 years, can have lubricity issues unless additives, such as biodiesel, veg-oil, etc. are mixed with the diesel fuel. The new UltraLowSulfurDiesel has lubricity additives included in the fuel. It's been in Canada for a few months now. Up here there is a blue-green dye added to the ULSD. Apparently the US only recently got LSD and ULSD will be available in October. Perhaps someone in the US knows better info on the timetable.
AltFuel Biodiesel (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jim_Phillips
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I have been told that ULSD has been in place here in Utah since the first of the year, FWIW.. No noticable difference as far as I could tell..
I found an 1981 HJ60 after months of searching. My wife drives a 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD (the wagon). Now, we're both on 100% biodiesel. Freedom Fuels, Inc., a local redistributer drives about 90 miles to Lakeland, FL to World Energy (www.worldenergy.net) and fills up two large tanks. He then drives back to Gainesville and redistributes it to his customers. I pay $3.05/gallon. I have two 55 gallon drums and a pump. I am upgrading to a 275 gallon home heating oil (diesel) tank.
I am in the middle of incorporating a local biodiesel co-op so that we can have locally made B100 and for a lot cheaper, probably $1.25-1.75/gallon.
Our ONLY issues with B100 so far were the need to change fuel filters after a few tanks due to the old petroldiesel residue being washed out of the tank and lines, etc. (not necessary once the system is fully cleaned), and the somewhat harder starts when we hit temperatures below 40 degrees F (just let the glow plugs cycle twice).
I am in the middle of incorporating a local biodiesel co-op so that we can have locally made B100 and for a lot cheaper, probably $1.25-1.75/gallon.
Our ONLY issues with B100 so far were the need to change fuel filters after a few tanks due to the old petroldiesel residue being washed out of the tank and lines, etc. (not necessary once the system is fully cleaned), and the somewhat harder starts when we hit temperatures below 40 degrees F (just let the glow plugs cycle twice).
As Andre said, homebrewing does involve pain in the butt factor (PIBF). One major PIBF is the time and mess involved with collecting used veggie oil. The other is the time and mess involved with getting rid of the waste product you can't use from the waste oil. Whenever you pick up waste oil from restaurants you get some percentage of the total volume that is sludge (food particles like batter from onion rings, etc). In my experience, I get really quality oil but about 30% of the volume of oil I pick up is unusable sludge, which means another round trip to dispose of the stuff I can't use.
At this point in my life I am time limited more than anything, and the extra time it takes to deal with oil collection and disposal just isn't worth it for me. I've got a local mid-size producer (60,000 gallons/year) here who will accept used oil from me for a discount on finished fuel. Those of you who are thinking of running BIOD might consider this. I only have to collect oil once and don't have to deal with the waste product.
At this point in my life I am time limited more than anything, and the extra time it takes to deal with oil collection and disposal just isn't worth it for me. I've got a local mid-size producer (60,000 gallons/year) here who will accept used oil from me for a discount on finished fuel. Those of you who are thinking of running BIOD might consider this. I only have to collect oil once and don't have to deal with the waste product.
3B Biodiesel
Anyone have experience running BD in the BJ? What equipment would I need to convert mine so I can run BD. I have a stock 83 BJ42 that I had bought with the idea of running BD?
Roberto
Anyone have experience running BD in the BJ? What equipment would I need to convert mine so I can run BD. I have a stock 83 BJ42 that I had bought with the idea of running BD?
Roberto
i have been running B99 in a 85 bj60 for almost a year. it is running great, i have only changed out the fuel filter. The fuel lines will be done in the next year or so, but so far no softness!!!!!!!
Check the biodiesel link in my signature for the fuel line swap notes. I have run Bio Diesel in two BJ's and an HJ.
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wvo and biodiesel processing
the wvo option is a great option, and only requires a physical filtering, and separating. with heat you separate 90 %, then filter with various micron rated filters. this works, but you have to use multiple stepped filters, and throw them away usually when they get clogged with gunk. check out below for a new alternative!
Check out frybrid.com for more details on the WVO filtering process.
Frybrid then also makes great systems to add to your diesels - a heated tank, line, and filter, that allows you to safely run WVO.
Also, a note, and a great alternative to filtering.
http://www.simplecentrifuge.com/index.html
the wvo option is a great option, and only requires a physical filtering, and separating. with heat you separate 90 %, then filter with various micron rated filters. this works, but you have to use multiple stepped filters, and throw them away usually when they get clogged with gunk. check out below for a new alternative!
Check out frybrid.com for more details on the WVO filtering process.
Frybrid then also makes great systems to add to your diesels - a heated tank, line, and filter, that allows you to safely run WVO.
Also, a note, and a great alternative to filtering.
http://www.simplecentrifuge.com/index.html
Or Keep it Simple, avoid trans fats which clog fuel systems, filter and settle the oil cold, don't add heat, let gravity do the work. Don't add heat, filter oil at 60°F and remove the trans fats at the beginning.
Here's a description of the filtering/settling unit:
Screw a short [3-4in.] 2in. pipe nipple into the large bung of a standard 200L steel barrel. An inverted 10 gallon barrel with the bottom cut out is screwed onto the upper end of the 2in. nipple. A 2ft piece of 2in. OD exhaust pipe is slightly peened to flare one end so it slides into the 2in. nipple and provides a path for the new oil to the bottom of the barrel. A 16L plastic cooking oil bucket with holes around the bottom and panty hose stretched across the top, fits into the 10 gal barrel. A plastic mesh fruit bag is suspended in the bucket to provide a filter basket for the pHose. A 2x2 wood frame with bug screen rests on the 10 gal barrel rim above the filter bucket. A 3/4in. street elbow and a drain valve salvaged off a hot water heater is installed in the small bung of the big barrel, with a clear vinyl tube to transfer the clear oil to the next barrel.
All I have to do is pour a 16L jug or bucket of used cooking oil through the screen and pHose filters into the upper barrel. While I'm off doing other things 16L of clear settled oil is transferred off the top into the storage barrel.
By adding 10 to 15 gal a week the settling time is about 4 weeks for the clear top-oil.
filtering/settling unit
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/4331082211/UCO1.gif
Here's a description of the filtering/settling unit:
Screw a short [3-4in.] 2in. pipe nipple into the large bung of a standard 200L steel barrel. An inverted 10 gallon barrel with the bottom cut out is screwed onto the upper end of the 2in. nipple. A 2ft piece of 2in. OD exhaust pipe is slightly peened to flare one end so it slides into the 2in. nipple and provides a path for the new oil to the bottom of the barrel. A 16L plastic cooking oil bucket with holes around the bottom and panty hose stretched across the top, fits into the 10 gal barrel. A plastic mesh fruit bag is suspended in the bucket to provide a filter basket for the pHose. A 2x2 wood frame with bug screen rests on the 10 gal barrel rim above the filter bucket. A 3/4in. street elbow and a drain valve salvaged off a hot water heater is installed in the small bung of the big barrel, with a clear vinyl tube to transfer the clear oil to the next barrel.
All I have to do is pour a 16L jug or bucket of used cooking oil through the screen and pHose filters into the upper barrel. While I'm off doing other things 16L of clear settled oil is transferred off the top into the storage barrel.
By adding 10 to 15 gal a week the settling time is about 4 weeks for the clear top-oil.
filtering/settling unit
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/4331082211/UCO1.gif
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Bravo! Very interesting! I have to read this thread in entirety, but a quick question: Isnt the methyl alcohol / methyl hydrate expensive? At least buying it at the building supply store here. Any tips to procure this ingredient in bulk (in Canada)?
Thanks a bunch,
John
Thanks a bunch,
John
Converting cooking oil into biodiesel requires 20% Methyl Hydrate [Methanol] plus lye in very exact proportions, otherwise you'll have a large vat of liquid soap. If everything works out you have clean biodiesel, and dirty glycerine to dispose of. In simple terms, the oil converts into biodiesel, and the methanol converts into glycerine. However, methanol is expensive, and the process so hazardous and time consuming, that a lot of folks just convert the vehicle to run on clean veg-oil, or veg-oil mixed with diesel.
Start here for more info:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/159605551
Start here for more info:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/159605551
Thanks for that John. I think I'm getting confused between WVO and biodiesel?
Gonna go read up...
Cheers
Gonna go read up...
Cheers
yes, confused.
WVO= waste vegetable oil, SVO=surplus vegetable oil, VO=vegetable oil.
Biodiesel starts as one of any of these (or in some cases, and not particularly desirable, animal fats or hydrogenated vegetable oils).
The problem with raw or used vegetable oil is that it is simply too viscous (thick) to burn completely in a diesel engine, most agree. This includes the legendary 5-cylinder Mercedes-Benz engine from the 300 series from 1979-1985. One can convert their vehicle with either a single tank system or a two-tank system, ranging anywhere from free (i.e. home made) to upwards of $2500 not including installation costs. EXTREMELY heated debate ensues when you get single-tank proponents in the same discussion with two-tank proponents. Both systems heat the WVO/SVO either in the tank or in the fuel lines (or both) on their way to the pre-combustion chamber, as well as filter the oil much better than the OEM fuel filters are able to. Single tank systems are supposed to enable the vehicle to start up and shut down without having to use "dino-diesel" or biodiesel. Two-tank systems are supposed to be safer for the vehicle, and do require start-ups and shut-down on thinner fuels.
In any event, if you do not achieve complete combustion, the result will be carbon deposits on the injector tips, and on the lands and grooves of the cylinders. This carbon is actually harder than the steel it forms on and alledgedly, such deposits will pretty quickly score the inside of the cylinder chambers, resulting in a gradual loss of compression and eventual death of the engine. Also, injection pumps can fail (catastrophically) if they are pumping a fluid significantly more viscous than what they were designed for. MB injection pumps are unstoppable, hence their extremely high desirability among the WVO crowd.
None of these problems exist for biodiesel, as the transesterification process thins out the fuel. The addition of caustic soda/ lye (either potassium or sodium form) and methanol (or less commonly ethanol) will pull out the glycerin which is the principal constituent in vegetable oil that makes it so thick at room temperature. It isa fairly simple chemical process, though not particularly safe (but safe enough for people who respect the dangers and take due precautions).
The only problem with biodiesel is the more rapid degradation of fuel lines resulting from the solvent properties of the methanol residue in the biodiesel (parts per million). Newer vehicles were equipped with lines and hoses made with flourinated rubbers (i.e. Viton). Most older cars have had these lines replaced over the years anyhow, but some still remain. They're cheap to replace, so this is hardly a limitation. Nobody known to the biodiesel community at large has reported problems with gasket or o-ring failures from biodiesel use.
I hope this helps...
WVO= waste vegetable oil, SVO=surplus vegetable oil, VO=vegetable oil.
Biodiesel starts as one of any of these (or in some cases, and not particularly desirable, animal fats or hydrogenated vegetable oils).
The problem with raw or used vegetable oil is that it is simply too viscous (thick) to burn completely in a diesel engine, most agree. This includes the legendary 5-cylinder Mercedes-Benz engine from the 300 series from 1979-1985. One can convert their vehicle with either a single tank system or a two-tank system, ranging anywhere from free (i.e. home made) to upwards of $2500 not including installation costs. EXTREMELY heated debate ensues when you get single-tank proponents in the same discussion with two-tank proponents. Both systems heat the WVO/SVO either in the tank or in the fuel lines (or both) on their way to the pre-combustion chamber, as well as filter the oil much better than the OEM fuel filters are able to. Single tank systems are supposed to enable the vehicle to start up and shut down without having to use "dino-diesel" or biodiesel. Two-tank systems are supposed to be safer for the vehicle, and do require start-ups and shut-down on thinner fuels.
In any event, if you do not achieve complete combustion, the result will be carbon deposits on the injector tips, and on the lands and grooves of the cylinders. This carbon is actually harder than the steel it forms on and alledgedly, such deposits will pretty quickly score the inside of the cylinder chambers, resulting in a gradual loss of compression and eventual death of the engine. Also, injection pumps can fail (catastrophically) if they are pumping a fluid significantly more viscous than what they were designed for. MB injection pumps are unstoppable, hence their extremely high desirability among the WVO crowd.
None of these problems exist for biodiesel, as the transesterification process thins out the fuel. The addition of caustic soda/ lye (either potassium or sodium form) and methanol (or less commonly ethanol) will pull out the glycerin which is the principal constituent in vegetable oil that makes it so thick at room temperature. It isa fairly simple chemical process, though not particularly safe (but safe enough for people who respect the dangers and take due precautions).
The only problem with biodiesel is the more rapid degradation of fuel lines resulting from the solvent properties of the methanol residue in the biodiesel (parts per million). Newer vehicles were equipped with lines and hoses made with flourinated rubbers (i.e. Viton). Most older cars have had these lines replaced over the years anyhow, but some still remain. They're cheap to replace, so this is hardly a limitation. Nobody known to the biodiesel community at large has reported problems with gasket or o-ring failures from biodiesel use.
I hope this helps...
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In 2002 we bought a nice VW Jetta with the 1.9TDI engine. Ran that engine mainly on B20. I noticed some lose in power and mileage but its was nice running B20. Same with my 1984 Mercedes 240D. I also ran the mercedes on higher percentage of biodiesel and it ran just fine.
I have been waiting for a very long time to set up my own small processor. I think Im finally just going to dive into it and just do it.
I plan on running around a B50 mix.... and also have a WVO setup for summer use.
We are now looking for another VW TDI car... maybe a Golf this time.
I have been waiting for a very long time to set up my own small processor. I think Im finally just going to dive into it and just do it.
I plan on running around a B50 mix.... and also have a WVO setup for summer use.
We are now looking for another VW TDI car... maybe a Golf this time.
My wife has been running her '83 MB 300TD on B100 and I have been running my '81 HJ60 on the same for about 1500 miles (each) and we have this to report:
No problems. No noticable loss in power. No more difficulty starting (even at ~30 degrees F). The smell is far better than petro-diesel, but still stinks. It's sweet burnt oil smell makes some people queasy, others hungry.
We're buying our B100 from Freedom Fuels, Inc. (Mark Robinson) who buys it from World Energy in Lakeland, FL in ~1000 gallon quantities and drives the fuel back to Gainesville, FL (~1.5 to 2 hours away) to sell at nearly zero profit. I pay $3.05/gallon.
I am helping a local group get incorporated as a 501(c)(12) non-profit cooperative, (yes, 12, not 3, though still non-profit), and will be able to get premium quality B100 AT LESS THAN $2.00/GALLON, DELIVERED TO MY DOOR. That's a better proposition than making it myself for ~$1.00/gallon, I have too little time for my kids as it is...
No problems. No noticable loss in power. No more difficulty starting (even at ~30 degrees F). The smell is far better than petro-diesel, but still stinks. It's sweet burnt oil smell makes some people queasy, others hungry.
We're buying our B100 from Freedom Fuels, Inc. (Mark Robinson) who buys it from World Energy in Lakeland, FL in ~1000 gallon quantities and drives the fuel back to Gainesville, FL (~1.5 to 2 hours away) to sell at nearly zero profit. I pay $3.05/gallon.
I am helping a local group get incorporated as a 501(c)(12) non-profit cooperative, (yes, 12, not 3, though still non-profit), and will be able to get premium quality B100 AT LESS THAN $2.00/GALLON, DELIVERED TO MY DOOR. That's a better proposition than making it myself for ~$1.00/gallon, I have too little time for my kids as it is...
I tried an older MB with a pretty poorly done wvo setup a year ago and then sold it because it was a s***ty car - power loss running on WVO and other non fuel system related things.
I am now eager to get another diesel and run either WVO or some BD mix. In reading about the two I keep hearing about TDIs not handling WVO very well (and perhaps not even B100). Which engines/cars besides the 70s and 80s MBs are happy to run WVO?
Can someone provide a brief synopsis of their experiences of BOTH methods? (WVO two tank system vs single tank and processing) IS the general consensus that BD is more desirable than WVO?
I had been pretty set on the WVO conversion from greasecar.com, but given the latest stuff I have been reading it is probably just worth my time to spend the money on BD processing equipment rather than on a conversion kit - that way I can use it on any diesel car.
I liked the "easy" process of just collecting the oil and filtering it before running it through the car - and not sure how well I can manage the processing.
I am now eager to get another diesel and run either WVO or some BD mix. In reading about the two I keep hearing about TDIs not handling WVO very well (and perhaps not even B100). Which engines/cars besides the 70s and 80s MBs are happy to run WVO?
Can someone provide a brief synopsis of their experiences of BOTH methods? (WVO two tank system vs single tank and processing) IS the general consensus that BD is more desirable than WVO?
I had been pretty set on the WVO conversion from greasecar.com, but given the latest stuff I have been reading it is probably just worth my time to spend the money on BD processing equipment rather than on a conversion kit - that way I can use it on any diesel car.
I liked the "easy" process of just collecting the oil and filtering it before running it through the car - and not sure how well I can manage the processing.
I'm mixing clean canola with ULSD up to 20% depending on the temperature with no modifications to the fuel system. It significantly cleans exhaust emissions. IMHO biodiesel isn't worth it for homebrew unless you can get methanol and lye cheap. If biodiesel was commercially available I would probably use it.
20% !!! How much are you paying for your canola. I buy a 4l jug at the grocery store for $5 - $6 and run about 5%.
$22 per 16 litre 'cubie' at the big box store, which is only a few cents more per litre than diesel.
I've also set up a simple system to clean used canola fryer oil.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/7611079412?r=7611079412#7611079412
or you can send me an e-mail by PM and I'll send you the drawing.
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