Bigger tires; bigger rotors?

[Celt Horseman]

So, I am looking at putting 35's on my 09 LC here in the near future and figure at that time I will also re-gear it. Thinking 4:56 or there about. But I was also thinking being able to stop would be nice. For those with 35's did you get bigger or vented rotors to help with stopping?

 

[T4Runner]

Most like to run 17 or 18” wheels. Can’t really go larger brakes unless you go with larger wheels, which kinda negates the 35” tires if you ask me...

 

[chilibit]

I like 17" RW wheels. I think a well chosen gear ratio could reduce the need for larger brakes. Pads and rotors are wear items and you could bias toward stopping power over longevity. And of course, it is all a function of the driver.

 

[bloc]

16+ cruisers got the larger front brakes from a Tundra, so adding some rotor size on that axle is fairly easy.. and toyota apparently felt there was reason enough to make the change on stock vehicles.

This swap is something I plan to do eventually.

 

[Markuson]

I like 17" RW wheels. I think a well chosen gear ratio could reduce the need for larger brakes. Pads and rotors are wear items and you could bias toward stopping power over longevity. And of course, it is all a function of the driver.

Last sentence definitely true.
Once you do 35’s, you either get in the habit of engine braking...or you go warp a lot of rotors. Happy to say I’m still on the original factory rotors on my 2008 at 107k miles & 35’s.

When I do finally replace these, I’ll likely go vented...but if you adopt a few basic braking habits on steep descents...your rotors will surprise you with long life.

 

[Willy beamin]

So, I am looking at putting 35's on my 09 LC here in the near future and figure at that time I will also re-gear it. Thinking 4:56 or there about. But I was also thinking being able to stop would be nice. For those with 35's did you get bigger or vented rotors to help with stopping?

I went with OE stlye from frozen rotors.
Paired with TRD pads. Bites like a shot of fireball

 

[belmontjoe]

On the frozen rotors, what were your thoughts choosing between oe and drilled and/or slotted?

 

[Willy beamin]

oe’s worked well for
Many many miles. I wanted a set of rotors that are resistant to warpage. Drilled and slotted didnt seem to benefit my needs / driving habits.

 

[T4Runner]

I’d be concerned about the effect of fording in cold water on drilled rotors, but I’m not an engineer...

 

[TeCKis300]

Some thoughts.

1) With increased wheel diameter, the diminished braking variable is brake torque / leverage. This means you’ll have to physically press harder on the brake pedal to achieve the same braking force at the tires.

2) From a heat capacity perspective, there’s no decrease. The braking system has the same amount of heat capacity regardless of the loss of brake torque. So in @Markuson ‘s situation, the issue isn’t so much the loss of torque, but the fact that he’s incredibly heavy. So on long stretches of downgrade, the brake system is taxed by the added kinetic energy that is converted into heat.

Some strategies to increase/regain brake torque:

1) Brake pad with higher coefficient of friction.

2) Larger diameter rotors with a caliper that is located farther out to increase leverage (i.e. Tundra retrofit or BBK)

Both those strategies above also address heat capacity. #1, because higher performance pads generally have a higher MOT (maximum operating temperature), it increases heat overhead. Though some pads give up cold braking friction for higher temp performance.

I would avoid slotted and drilled rotors. As one that has tracked cars, racers generally avoid slots and holes. Outgassing isn’t really a problem in modern pads. But slots and holes become opportunities for stress risers and cracks to form in extended heat cycling. They also cause increased dust and pad wear unnecessarily as they bite more pad material off as they sweep by. Additionally, slots and holes remove material that could otherwise sink heat reducing peak temps. Though they do expose more surface area to cool off and recover faster after a braking event. So the last point is probably a wash. New rotors do wonders to regain heat capacity as rotors lose mass as they wear.

I still feel like my stock brakes, with recently refreshed rotors and pads, are plenty strong with 33.2” tires. But I can see how an 8k lb rig might challenge them in long downhills, if not using engine brakes.

Tundra retrofits would be a great upgrade with all the remanufactured calipers floating around. When I tried to upgrade, I couldn’t find a readily available brake line, as tundra calipers use a different style of fitting/banjo than the cruisers. Old strategies were to machine the Tundra caliper but that would not be my preferred strategy.

 

[Celt Horseman]

what are the thoughts with going with a ceramic pad instead of a semi-metallic?

 

[c4xplsv]

what are the thoughts with going with a ceramic pad instead of a semi-metallic?

My experience....YMMV
ceramic pads feel like the brakes have been oiled (not good) and take a lot more brake pedal pressure (and distance) to stop. I prefer the bite from the metallic pads even if they produce more dust and don’t last as long.

 

[TexAZ]

Some thoughts.

When I tried to upgrade, I couldn’t find a readily available brake line, as tundra calipers use a different style of fitting/banjo than the cruisers. Old strategies were to machine the Tundra caliper but that would not be my preferred strategy.

A call to crown performance lines, and you can have custom lines made. Reasonable cost. You can also just run tundra lines from the frame.
The party numbers are available in my brake conversion thread.

Running 35s, the tundra brakes are awesome. A little biased to the front, as the rears remain stock cruiser.

 

[HDJdreams]

Running 35s, the tundra brakes are awesome. A little biased to the front, as the rears remain stock cruiser.

If I recall correctly, Tundras have same diameter in rear as 200s. Did you really notice a change in bias, rear felt loose or just more nose dive because the front is finally doing its job? I am NOT being critical, just trying to clarify what you meant. Thanks

 

[TexAZ]

No, problem.
When I first installed the new rotors and pads I did the burn in procedure. 50 to 10 just at the point of ABS kicking in. The front had significant nose dive and was scratching/sliding biting for traction.
I want able to feel or hear any of the same bite from the rear.

 

[TeCKis300]

^Great feedback. Have you ever done the same aggressive braking with the OE brake setup to get a feel as to what that was like?

 

[TexAZ]

I never really went through a full on stab at the pedal just to see what would happen.
during the post tundra swap/break in I occurred to me I should have done a pre-swap run on the same road with the same tires to get a baseline.
hindsight 20/20....

just a quick anecdote of a personal experience with the truck, brakes, and towing a boat with no trailer brakes:

last Monday I was towing the boat home from the lake. cruising on the freeway, doing 60-65ish caught up to a semi.
crackhead entering freeway comes tooling along the ramp, sees the semi, slows down and tries to roll into my lane doing 30.
stab the brakes....fronts lock up for a split second, I let off the brake and hammer the throttle with a slight turn to the left to clear idiot meandering onto freeway, without cutting too far into left lane in front of semi still rolling along at 65.
everyone managed to find a spot on the road without co-occupying any space. Very pleased with the brake response of the cruiser and stability with a million weird forces acting on her all at once.

 

[mcgaskins]

FWIW I noticed a huge brake performance increase in my 16 over my 14 running the exact same tire setup. The 16 gets the upgraded brakes from the Tundra, and it is materially better than on the pre-16 200. I also have an 08 running roughly the same size tire that's on the 16, and driving back to back there is no comparison with how much better the bigger front brakes are.

 

[RyanR]

FWIW I noticed a huge brake performance increase in my 16 over my 14 running the exact same tire setup. The 16 gets the upgraded brakes from the Tundra, and it is materially better than on the pre-16 200. I also have an 08 running roughly the same size tire that's on the 16, and driving back to back there is no comparison with how much better the bigger front brakes are.

That's great feedback. Switching from worn stock pads to Tundra TRD pads on my LX made a huge difference, but after going from stock tires to 34's I again felt like I could use a little more bite. Mind you, the brakes are very good at this point and I have no concerns, I just love great brakes.

 

[HDJdreams]

FWIW I noticed a huge brake performance increase in my 16 over my 14 running the exact same tire setup. The 16 gets the upgraded brakes from the Tundra, and it is materially better than on the pre-16 200. I also have an 08 running roughly the same size tire that's on the 16, and driving back to back there is no comparison with how much better the bigger front brakes are.

The feedback of with/without brake upgrade running same set up is really helpful! Especially when you can go back and forth between vehicles.

I had a stock 92 and 97 at the same time, they were two very different animals. 97 was faster, got better mpg, stopped better and handled better, felt 1000 lbs lighter although it certainly wasn’t.