Bears, or mitigation there of during overlanding (1 Viewer)

[Rusty Marlin]

What do you guys do about bears?
Where I camp in the ADK the black bears have gotten smart, they will open unlocked cars and rummage around; sometimes closing themselves in the vehicle in the process. I've heard of Grizzlies peeling the doors off cars and trucks to get in for food.
So what do you guys do in bear country? Do you still maintain the 200 Ft Triangle Rule of back packing, food storage, food prep and sleep all 200 ft apart? That doesn't seem very practical in an Over-landing rig where the bedroom is a RTT, the kitchen is on the tail gate and the rear the truck is stuffed with coolers of food.

Has anybody had run-ins with the varmints while Over-landing?

 

[73fj40lc]

1) The food that I can do this with is secured in a poly coated waterproof bag and pulled up hanging in a tree.
2) bear spray- I never go into woods that has an active bear population and not have bear spray on my person and also readily available in camp.
3) Colt Anaconda and or Benelli M4 12ga- Last resort and loaded with 3" buckshot for the first round then all 3" rifled slugs after. This will take care of any bear problem that you will have in the US as long as you do your part. This also doubles as backup protection against the 2 legged vermin.

If you have to use this last resort always check beforehand and know who and what is around you. I am always looking and keeping track of anyone who is moving around me and where everyone is staying near me. Especially before going to bed at night I always take another good look around my perimeter. Even when you are not in bear country is isn't a bad habit to get into if you don't already keep up with your surroundings.

 

[cody c]

It is a concern in the area I camp and hunt, but I've never had to shoot a problem bear, I have shot them in hunting season though. I have had encounters that were not an issue, but I also know lots of folks who have had very serious encounters. I could tell a few stories, I tree planted in my younger days and grew up in a smaller rural community in central B.C.

Having said that, many folks should reconsider using their tailgate to cook up a big bag of bacon and eggs in the morning, the scent gets into everything, and you can easily cook a little ways from your vehicle.

Bears don't usually want anything to do with people, unless you have garbage/problem bears, this is less of an issue in remote places. Unless I see a bear close to where I'm camping, and I'm not lingering around a camp site with food for a long period of time, there just isn't alot of scents to attract a bear and I don't invest time worrying about it.

Bear spray is recommended by most, but in a bad situation, I would prefer something that goes "BOOM" and not something that is effected by wind direction, limited to 30 feet, or doesn't dispatch a bear if someone else is in a bad situation in a real hurry. This side of the border a 12 gauge is about the best tool with Firearms laws here, the colt anaconda sounds better for hiking, but that whole subject is another can of worms.

In short, don't camp in places where there are problem bears, don't cook your food where it stinks up your tent/truck, and bring something to address the problem in case it comes up.

You drive a cruiser, you really shouldnt need to camp in congested camp sites, but maybe thats less of an issue this end of the continent.

 

[73fj40lc]

It is a concern in the area I camp and hunt, but I've never had to shoot a problem bear, I have shot them in hunting season though. I have had encounters that were not an issue, but I also know lots of folks who have had very serious encounters. I could tell a few stories, I tree planted in my younger days and grew up in a smaller rural community in central B.C.

Having said that, many folks should reconsider using their tailgate to cook up a big bag of bacon and eggs in the morning, the scent gets into everything, and you can easily cook a little ways from your vehicle.

Bears don't usually want anything to do with people, unless you have garbage/problem bears, this is less of an issue in remote places. Unless I see a bear close to where I'm camping, and I'm not lingering around a camp site with food for a long period of time, there just isn't alot of scents to attract a bear and I don't invest time worrying about it.

Bear spray is recommended by most, but in a bad situation, I would prefer something that goes "BOOM" and not something that is effected by wind direction, limited to 30 feet, or doesn't dispatch a bear if someone else is in a bad situation in a real hurry. This side of the border a 12 gauge is about the best tool with Firearms laws here, the colt anaconda sounds better for hiking, but that whole subject is another can of worms.

In short, don't camp in places where there are problem bears, don't cook your food where it stinks up your tent/truck, and bring something to address the problem in case it comes up.

You drive a cruiser, you really shouldnt need to camp in congested camp sites, but maybe thats less of an issue this end of the continent.

Your last sentence has a lot to do with some of the problems that people have in highly populated states. There isn't that much unpopulated areas that isn't privately owned and you have to have permission to go on private property. You either own land, know someone who has land that you can use or you are stuck with State land and parks to use. Many times you can't just leave a designated camping area because of a bear problem. Most public areas that you are allowed to use and camp on has specific designated areas to camp.

 

[cody c]

I see, perhaps i should have taken some time to understand that before my comment, thanks for takng a minute to explain. Ive never been in that part of the world.

We have a much less population dense environment here, its actually quite easy to get off the beaten path a bit here, more so into the rockies, but for the overlanding types its quite easy to camp and have a location to yourself, with exception to some long weekends and its a bit busier during big game season.

 

[e9999]

I will say that I feel much better sleeping in a RTT than on the ground in bear country. Yes, they can easily climb up there and all if they really want to, but it does feel -and likely is- safer.
And yes, I do try to be careful about food storage and disposal. And when I sleep on the ground, I may even change out of my cooking clothes if bears are a potential problem. I really really don't like the idea of being awaken by a bear chomping or pawing at my sleeping bag...

 

[Prairie Swamp]

International border crossings further complicate the matter. I'm planning on heading into Canada from the US this summer. Crossing with any firearm is strictly forbidden unless you're heading in for a specific hunting trip with all the necessary paperwork. And even then hand guns are not permitted for any reason (I think.)

And from my research even bear sprays are closely scrutinized. But I guess that you could always buy that in-country to avoid that hassle. But my point is that in certain situations firearms are completely off the table.

 

[cody c]

International border crossings further complicate the matter. I'm planning on heading into Canada from the US this summer. Crossing with any firearm is strictly forbidden unless you're heading in for a specific hunting trip with all the necessary paperwork. And even then hand guns are not permitted for any reason (I think.)

And from my research even bear sprays are closely scrutinized. But I guess that you could always buy that in-country to avoid that hassle. But my point is that in certain situations firearms are completely off the table.

Our gun laws are more restricted around handguns and AR style rifles. You may not have a problem with getting a pump action shotgun across, but you will have to get some paperwork filled out, and may have to define a reason why you are bringing it up (target shooting with a relative or something).

I would look into what hoops you would need to jump through first, and then if you are planning to travel and camp in Canada and are planning to purchase a single firearm then maybe do so around those limitations.

Bear spray, alternatively is a bit easier, just buy some in a bass pro or Cabelas when your up here.

You have to be careful about voicing your intent though. If you said at the border that you had bear spray to protect yourself from bears with it, or to protect yourself from bears or thief's, the latter would get your spray taken away. No castle law here.

Having said that there are loopholes, and you should familiarize yourself with transport laws: Storing, Transporting and Displaying Firearms - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

You could get away with an antique arm, as they are not considered a firearm under the firearms act. An old russian 44R revolver with papers indicating it was pre 1898 would be much easier for example.

 

[73fj40lc]

International border crossings further complicate the matter. I'm planning on heading into Canada from the US this summer. Crossing with any firearm is strictly forbidden unless you're heading in for a specific hunting trip with all the necessary paperwork. And even then hand guns are not permitted for any reason (I think.)

And from my research even bear sprays are closely scrutinized. But I guess that you could always buy that in-country to avoid that hassle. But my point is that in certain situations firearms are completely off the table.

I just came back from Canada last month and for those reasons alone I didn't get any hunting in. My wife and I did everything else but the aggravation, expense, crazy regulations and the amount of time that it would consume it just wasn't worth it to me. We had plenty of other things to keep us busy.

The no handguns regulations really made me uncomfortable. I don't remember the last time I went a week and didn't CC. We sure enjoyed our time in Canada and the Canadian people were really great so I would still go back.

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Our gun laws are more restricted around handguns and AR style rifles. You may not have a problem with getting a pump action shotgun across, but you will have to get some paperwork filled out, and may have to define a reason why you are bringing it up (target shooting with a relative or something).

I would look into what hoops you would need to jump through first, and then if you are planning to travel and camp in Canada and are planning to purchase a single firearm then maybe do so around those limitations.

Bear spray, alternatively is a bit easier, just buy some in a bass pro or Cabelas when your up here.

You have to be careful about voicing your intent though. If you said at the border that you had bear spray to protect yourself from bears with it, or to protect yourself from bears or thief's, the latter would get your spray taken away. No castle law here.

Having said that there are loopholes, and you should familiarize yourself with transport laws: Storing, Transporting and Displaying Firearms - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

You could get away with an antique arm, as they are not considered a firearm under the firearms act. An old russian 44R revolver with papers indicating it was pre 1898 would be much easier for example.

Thank you for the info. Good to hear from someone very familiar with things.

 

[indycole]

I had to leave my 45-70 at the border with the CA border agents near the Browning, MT crossing during a backcountry camping trip to Banff and Kootenay NPs. The agents were super-nice but strict about not letting me take the firearm into Canada. I even had all the paperwork filled out in advance (some of which I needed to come back into the US with it).

 

[Rusty Marlin]

Thank you for the comments, it comes down to about what I expected; keep a clean camp, don't cook where you sleep and store food stuffs appropriately.

It was nice of the boarder agents to let you store your .45-70 with them, as opposed to confiscate it, or arrest you. Did they leave you any ammo left for it when you got back? .45-70 is super fun to shoot, things happen when those big pills connect with stuff.

 

[lovetoski]

Bear spray is very effective. Carry that always in bear country. The other suggestions on this thread are reasonable additional considerations.

 

[coleAK]

I’m in Alaska and agree with what has already been mentioned. I will also add again cooking in the tail of your rig is asking for trouble, you want food storage and food prep away from the area where you will be spending most of your time and sleeping.

As per the firearm/bear spray debate. First off I’m a strong advocate, Alaska we have some of the loosest gun laws in the USA. I’ve hunted my entire life, shot competitive, Uncle Sam training. What many people forget (or don’t want to admit) is proficiency is key. I know many guys up here that carry a hand canon (.454, .460, .500) when they hike and have put <1 box of ammo through it, ever. And then they think they will be able to effectively draw and get shots off on their desired target which is a 1000 lb pissed off alpha predator coming at you at 40 ft/sec from <100 ft...

So what I’m saying if you go down that firearm road then: practice, practice, practice. If you don’t you are putting your self and others at in needed risk. I’m at the range 6-8 times a month spring and summer. My wife is still active duty and has to qualify and dosnt carry as she dosnt feel she is proficient enough. If you don’t want to put in the time bear spray is a better option. I know a few AFG guys that have backed down many charges with spray. I bear hunt with a marlin .45-70 “guide gun” but when we camp in thick bear areas have a 18” cylinder bore 12g pump with 00 buck filled by brenneke slugs. And a 10mm g20 is on my hip or chest all summer. But accuracy and control trumps caliber. I don’t have a hand canon wheel gun because I don’t shoot them well and I’m not willing to put in the time to be able to do so. I know a guy that dropped a 900 lb brown bear with a 9mm M&P shield. One shot super lucky. I’ve also nailed one through both lungs with a 500grain hand load in my 45-70 that ran another 100+ yards.

Also moose are way more dangerous than bear. I see easy 10:1 moose injuries per bear at the hospital. I’ve (knock on wood) never had a close encounter with a bear but have had to spray 4-5 moose over the years and almost had to shoot one 2 summers ago.

 

[bwesty]

The tailgate and or trailer cooking literally right next to or under bed in bear country is asking for trouble. I am always surprised that people don't take that more seriously. The wildlife will learn more and more to associate these habits with food. The other big problem I see is all the people now carrying food trash on the spare tire.

 

[mep1811]

International border crossings further complicate the matter. I'm planning on heading into Canada from the US this summer. Crossing with any firearm is strictly forbidden unless you're heading in for a specific hunting trip with all the necessary paperwork. And even then hand guns are not permitted for any reason (I think.)

And from my research even bear sprays are closely scrutinized. But I guess that you could always buy that in-country to avoid that hassle. But my point is that in certain situations firearms are completely off the table.

I drove through Canada to Alaska this past summer with a 45/70 rifle and 12 shotgun with no issues. I shipped my handguns to myself in Alaska. I had all the Canadian paperwork filled out om advance and registered the firearms with US Customs before crossing. The thing is you are not allowed to use a firearm for self defense against wild animals .

We did bring bear spray and air horns with us and stopped at the first Canadian tire Banff and bought "bear bangers" .

We were in a hard trailer and never had a bear issue in camp.

 

[BearBio]

AS a retired Wildlife Biologist with an MS in black bear behavior and 20+ years in the PNW, I will state that situational awreness is your #1 defense. Most of the issues you describe are habituated bears="campground bears"=those away from people are more likely to be afraid of you! My thesis was the ecology of "urban" bears, aka "trash bears". Wild bears aren't usually a problem. Keep a clean camp, hang food and you should be OK.

I keep bear spray available and a 454 Casull or Glock 10mm, either with hardcast!

 

[BearBio]

I’m in Alaska and agree with what has already been mentioned. I will also add again cooking in the tail of your rig is asking for trouble, you want food storage and food prep away from the area where you will be spending most of your time and sleeping.

As per the firearm/bear spray debate. First off I’m a strong advocate, Alaska we have some of the loosest gun laws in the USA. I’ve hunted my entire life, shot competitive, Uncle Sam training. What many people forget (or don’t want to admit) is proficiency is key. I know many guys up here that carry a hand canon (.454, .460, .500) when they hike and have put <1 box of ammo through it, ever. And then they think they will be able to effectively draw and get shots off on their desired target which is a 1000 lb pissed off alpha predator coming at you at 40 ft/sec from <100 ft...

So what I’m saying if you go down that firearm road then: practice, practice, practice. If you don’t you are putting your self and others at in needed risk. I’m at the range 6-8 times a month spring and summer. My wife is still active duty and has to qualify and dosnt carry as she dosnt feel she is proficient enough. If you don’t want to put in the time bear spray is a better option. I know a few AFG guys that have backed down many charges with spray. I bear hunt with a marlin .45-70 “guide gun” but when we camp in thick bear areas have a 18” cylinder bore 12g pump with 00 buck filled by brenneke slugs. And a 10mm g20 is on my hip or chest all summer. But accuracy and control trumps caliber. I don’t have a hand canon wheel gun because I don’t shoot them well and I’m not willing to put in the time to be able to do so. I know a guy that dropped a 900 lb brown bear with a 9mm M&P shield. One shot super lucky. I’ve also nailed one through both lungs with a 500grain hand load in my 45-70 that ran another 100+ yards.

Also moose are way more dangerous than bear. I see easy 10:1 moose injuries per bear at the hospital. I’ve (knock on wood) never had a close encounter with a bear but have had to spray 4-5 moose over the years and almost had to shoot one 2 summers ago.

Although my (professional) opinion is that your first defense (after situational awareness) should be bear spray, I concur with the comments on firearms IF you choose to go that route.

I also concur moose are a greater threat than bears!

Been charged once (by one of my black bears) and I will testify that you will not be able to release your holster, draw and accurately fire (certainly not more than one shot!) at a charging bear! Remember, you need to hit the CNS and, even if you do, you will have a dead 500+ pound bear coming at you at 35-45 mph!

Fortunately, my charge event was a bluff and he stopped about 8-10 feet from me!

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I hunted bear and deer with some guys a few years ago and we tent camped in North Central PA. Both times they put up a perimeter wire attached to an alarm of some sort. They said they started doing this when they started hunting in Alaska a few years prior to that. The assumption was that a bear would trip the thing and hopefully alert us all in time. It made me feel better but I really don't know if it makes sense. I don't have one of these but are there any thoughts on this approach?

 

[coleAK]

I hunted bear and deer with some guys a few years ago and we tent camped in North Central PA. Both times they put up a perimeter wire attached to an alarm of some sort. They said they started doing this when they started hunting in Alaska a few years prior to that. The assumption was that a bear would trip the thing and hopefully alert us all in time. It made me feel better but I really don't know if it makes sense. I don't have one of these but are there any thoughts on this approach?

Are you sure it wasn’t a shock line? Many people use them up here in AK.

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