Battery Cables - what gauge - HJ 60?

[markthemenace]

So, a friend gave me a pair of Group 27 batteries from a Dodge Cummins that the owner decided needed new batteries (some people cups runneth over all the time, it seems). Anyway, I thought, great! Now I can replace the tiny batteries that my Cruiser came with!

Anyway, I now realized that my cables/terminals are in very bad to totally shot state. In fact the right side (-) has a weird strip cut out of it and is terminated first at the battery tray, and then continues to the engine mount! Odd to say the least. The terminal broke off completely (it was probably original, as the cable was Literally encased by the terminal) when I removed it, so I have a band aid solution now on it.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I'd like to change ALL the cables and terminals. I'll be getting the terminals at NAPA, and probably get welding cable from PA. What gauge though?

I understand that, due to vehicle being 24v, I really dont need the 2 GA wire that my VW bus, for instance, enjoys. Cndn Tire sells 4GA cable in bulk at $6.99 per metre. If 4 GA Is all I need, that might be the most economical choice.

Ideas, thoughts anyone?

 

[gerg]

I use 2 ga with my 3B (12v) and just added the extra cables in addition to the stock... mostly cus im lazy. If I were you, I would go with the heavier stuff and have some peace of mind. Use brass connectors with lots of dielectric grease. My truck turns over like crazy even when it was super cold here a while ago. I don't give a second thought to starting in the cold now. I got my cables from a metal recycler who doesn't take stolen stuff. Hes across from the hospital in Langley. Great guy.

 

[Estancio]

... my recollection is that I used 4G in my 24v Cruiser when I replaced all battery cables about 10 years ago. What I did was remove the cross-over wire that connects the two batteries to each other, and matched up wire size to that one. Bought everything from a marine shop where they let me use their tools to make cuts and crimps and heat shrink ends to make all cables/connectors from new parts. That's when I really started to love marine shops.

 

[markthemenace]

I hear ya on the heavy gauge. But the thing is, I've been reading a lot of statements in this very forum that seem to indicate such heavy gauges are not nearly as necessary on 24v rigs. For instance like a 55w lamp only drawing about 2.5 amps, which would only need maybe 10 gauge wiring depending on length required. So ergo, charging would also require lesser gauge? I can only guess...

 

[cruiser_guy]

I hear ya on the heavy gauge. But the thing is, I've been reading a lot of statements in this very forum that seem to indicate such heavy gauges are not nearly as necessary on 24v rigs. For instance like a 55w lamp only drawing about 2.5 amps, which would only need maybe 10 gauge wiring depending on length required. So ergo, charging would also require lesser gauge? I can only guess...

Bigger cables mean lower current loss. With a pair of batteries in series as with the HJ60 or parallel as with the BJ60 you want the batteries to be electrically the same with as little variation as possible.

I have a solar setup here where I live in Sierra Leone and the batteries are interconnected with 1ga wires but the charge controller wire that feeds the whole battery pack is only a #6 or #8.

 

[Biche]

I change mine back in december for #1 gauge I had in stock, both between batteries and from the engine mount to the battery terminal. Got new battery and rewire my Wilson switch last friday and start way more easier, faster and less smoke.

I think #4 could be okay, but you won't need a lot of meters to rewire, so it's not much more expensive to go with a bigger gauge.

 

[markthemenace]

Seems counter intuitive to just make the interconnect larger and the rest thinner. I agree that nothing beats #2 or #1, but man it starts to get real expensive!

Do you guys make your own terminal ends? I'm thinking of using copper lugs and making my own.

 

[NQCruiser]

Anyway, I now realized that my cables/terminals are in very bad to totally shot state. In fact the right side (-) has a weird strip cut out of it and is terminated first at the battery tray, and then continues to the engine mount! Odd to say the least.

Don't worry, all HJ60's have that same setup. I like that I've got another earth point close to the battery without having to find room to fit onto the terminal clamp!!

 

[roscoFJ73]

This chart gives you wire size for all amps,12v and 24v and takes length into account.
It also says fine stranded wire is better then coarse stranded wire.

Battery wire size chart for battery wire to Alternator. Mimimum battery cable size needed

 

[DanS HJ-45]

The only downside to a bigger cable is the cost.

FWIW, on Dad's 12V 3B, I used 00, and 2GA for the glow plugs.

Rosco just gave you the chart, but there's no penalty for going bigger.

Dan

 

[kim]

Anyway, I now realized that my cables/terminals are in very bad to totally shot state. In fact the right side (-) has a weird strip cut out of it and is terminated first at the battery tray, and then continues to the engine mount! Odd to say the least. The terminal broke off completely (it was probably original, as the cable was Literally encased by the terminal) when I removed it, so I have a band aid solution now on it.

I like the marine terminals myself. Also, that weird ground cable that connects to the battery tray mount/fender and continues to the block is factory. Don't skip connecting to the battery tray/fender mount. I did that once and my edic started to do the funky chicken. I actually noticed grounding happening through the throttle cable to the firewall.

I agree with the crowd here, go big for the extra few bucks.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Making the interconnect big means the batteries operate more like a single 24 v battery which is what you want and less like a pair of 12 v batteries.
Of course in the end it is your choice.

 

[markthemenace]

Guys, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas. Cruiser_guy, I hear ya on the bigger cables and yeah it does seem to make sense when you think about it that way (less like a pair, but more like one).

Well I just had a look at my cables last night and tried to do a routing to figure out the lengths I need and boy...it is LONG!! In fact, after looking at the alternator wire, and how it hooks up to the + on the drivers side battery, I'm almost tempted to forget it! I mean, I actually can't figure out where its hooked up to!

From the drivers side battery, I have:

(+) going to passenger side battery (-). Fine, that one's 56 inches on the generous side as I intend turning my batteries around to face the rear (or rather the terminals to the rear).

(-) on drivers side going to battery tray, and then to engine mount. Alternator is further grounded to engine by braided wire, that seems to be sheathing some kind of hard tube.

(+) on passenger side goes to glowplug relays using small black terminal blocks. (Geez, those wires look pretty thin to me!) and then on to starter.

So how does the Alternator come into the picture? Which battery does it connect to? Well, I tried tracing the alt wire. The thick one snakes in close to the drivers side battery, then goes into one of those little black terminal boxes and joins to a really thin wire that, for all intents and purposes, disappears into the firewall!!

I get the feeling I'll only be replacing the interconnect here...anyone else done this before?

 

[markthemenace]

Don't worry, all HJ60's have that same setup. I like that I've got another earth point close to the battery without having to find room to fit onto the terminal clamp!!

Yep. I think I'm going to have a problem though, as my terminal head broke off and the bloody cable is too short to reach the end of the battery. And if I turn it around, the earth is going to be on the left side of the tray, with the grounding point on the right side.

Kim, I know its stock, but the think looks hokey to me, with the wires exposed and all that. I think I'll make a short run to the battery tray end, then a longer run to the engine end of it. Two separate wires instead of one with a cut in it.

 

[Biche]

If you plan turning your batteries around, you could simply find batteries with terminal reversed. Will be easier and be better looking IMHO. I've bought 2 new batteries this weekend (group 27 sized) and they fit well under the hood, even with terminal facing front. I know napa sell some group 27 with reversed terminal.

 

[canucksafari]

I was actually thinking of putting both my batteries on the driver's side to reduce the wire run and make room for other stuff on the passenger side. But it will require a redesign on the battery tray to accommodate both batteries.

 

[markthemenace]

Geez, this thing looks more and more complicated than it seems.

 

[Redd]

i never could figured out gauge sizes.. but i was thinking tractor jump leads would be an effective way to get fat cable cheap. theyre rated up to 800 amps and come in lenghts up to 14 feet.

 

[cruiser_guy]

On the question of wire sizes. Go big on the interconnect first, then look at the grounds and main starter cable. The rest I'd just leave as they are.
You don't really want to rewire the whole truck do you?

 

[markthemenace]

Hahaha...no definitely not rewiring the whole truck. Apart from the interconnect, I was hoping to make the alternator to battery cable much thicker as well. This is the one that has me stumped though. As I said earlier, it (seems to) terminate at a little black interconnect, and then a really skinny wire (12 gauge?) continues onto the other end of it, into a sheathed cable that presumably goes into the firewall.

Faced with that, it almost seems pointless to change it. But yeah, baby steps. I just found a great source for the military-type battery terminals, and they don't cost the ridiculous amount of money that NAPA wants for each piece.