basement wall water proofing and digging ideas

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Hi guys I have got a slightly musty basement in one corner of the daylight basement in need some suggestions on how to dig out in area that's about five to six feet deep and then what waterproofing products to consider. Obviously I will need to add a French drain and coat walls with a good product. I have used thoraseal in past. Key question is how to dig out. I have water pipe, sprinkler popes and possible gas pipe to deal with in a tight area. Do I use a large post hole digger and trench a 2-3 foot wide area parallel to foundation or use a small excavator? Thoughts suggestions?

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Where does that downspout drain. If it dumps out right next to the house, that is likely your problem. Add a section to drain it out away from the house and that would likely fix the issue.
 
Good suggestion, but they are min 6 feet away from teh foundation. I think the key issues is a previous homeowner added the retaining wall and the house was never adequately waterproofed (circa 1988). So, what I think is happening is excess moisture is being retained by the retaining wall.
Thoughts?
Where does that downspout drain. If it dumps out right next to the house, that is likely your problem. Add a section to drain it out away from the house and that would likely fix the issue.
 
Here is a better picture

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I don't know. It looks like the land lies such that water should drain away from the house. Are the gutter functioning properly? I believe you can apply thoraseal to the inside of the wall and expect good results. Before I'd dig, I'd try to get the water away from the house and coat the interior of the wall. Otherwise, you are talking about removing the retaining wall and landscaping and digging down to the footer. Please, if you do this, shore up the dirt wall. Many people die every year in collapses in holes like this. Anything over 4 feet deep should be shored.
 
One think I would like to know is how wide the overhang from the top roof is over this area...one foot?...two feet?...

If it's one foot overhang, my inclination would be to dig along side the house, probably about 16" deep by 12" to 16" out from the foundation. I would then line it with plastic (6 mil) then fill it with pea gravel. I would pitch it to corner of that block planter (not the inside corner, the outside corner, and I realize it's rounded...just get as far from the house as you can) Dig down in that corner with the post hole digger and fill that with gravel to below grade of the block wall.

Then..I'd dig below the block, being careful not to undermine the structural integrity of the wall...in essence what you're creating is a "natural" drainage ditch, with the help of plastic and gravel....a natural gutter to force the bulk of the water and direct away from house foundation. The further you lead the water away, the drier hopefully it'll be.

You could also be wicking water form the other side of the stairs, if it's not pitched properly away from the foundation.


If the overhang is 2'...you're just f'ed...sell that dump and buy another house...:flipoff2:

:beer:
 
I assume that the brick veneer on the front of the house extends down to the natural grade ... if so I'd replant the bushes currently in the "planter" formed by the retaining wall and remove the retaining wall and fill. If this solves your problem ... quit there. Not sure where you are but if you get freezing weather then that earthen berm created by the retaining wall will eventually cause spalling of the brick work .. at least near the surface and a few inches. In any event any water in it will find its way through the brick facing eventually and leave it perpetually damp.
I'd also be poking around that downspout .... its pretty suspicious ... could it be moved to other end (right) of that trough
 
You could empty the planter, dig it out and heavily coat the house wall. But that sounds like too much work. First I wound redirect the downspout to the other side and down the hill. I would drill some holes in several blocks to drain the water away from that planter. With all the rain we have been getting this year, these new problems start to appear. Are your gutters clean? If not the water could be overflowing onto that area.
Afew cheap fixes that might save you a ton of money and work
 
Thanks,

THe planter area has to get dug out and wall coated and french drain added.
The gutter is not a problem as it is routed 6' away from foundation and on a slope.
THe biggest challenge is how to dig out, by hand or maching or a combination of both....
the water line, and sprinker lines are likely going to need hand digging , but a stump (not pictured) in planter area is going to be a bear to get out as some of the roots may be in the area where we are going to have to dig....

You could empty the planter, dig it out and heavily coat the house wall. But that sounds like too much work. First I wound redirect the downspout to the other side and down the hill. I would drill some holes in several blocks to drain the water away from that planter. With all the rain we have been getting this year, these new problems start to appear. Are your gutters clean? If not the water could be overflowing onto that area.
Afew cheap fixes that might save you a ton of money and work
 
You are stuck doing by hand and going slow if you are going to remove it. I'd remove the planter wall and then dig it out. And leave it off or make it a lot shorter.
You said the gutter goes out 6' but is it graded away from the house? Does the water puddle there?

I've seen where those planters don't have weep holes so they fill up.
 
Rent a mini-hoe, either with or without an operator depending on your skilz.

I've done this before and the machine is a lot easier.
 
If the moisture is in the corner then you are better off digging up both walls to make sure you have the corner covered. From the previous post I take it that the foundation in a block foundation. Block foundations are notorious for cracking in a Christmas tree pattern in the corners due to excess pressure.

I would dig up both walls by hand approx 12-24" deep and approx 12-20" wide pitching the bottom of both squared bottom trenches to the corner. Clean the walls with flat shovel then wire brush and let dry. Use a plyable ( if too stiff then last the 5gal bucket sit in sun ) roofing tar to coat the walls, apply the 4-6mil visqeen to the wall and let it sit in the trench like a gutter running parallel with the wall.

Install at least 3" corrugated perforated pipe and covering with 1" washed round gravel. Do not use pea gravel as it will clog with sediment very quickly. I personally would run both pipes to the corner and tie them into the d'oh spout line. If it is deep enough and you have enough fall away from the home. If it is not deep enough then you would need to take it deeper as long as you have enough fall away front he home.

The corner can get tricky with the tar and plastic because you don't want a gap in the two " systems " you would want to have a Seperate layer of tar and plastic over the corner BEFORE you bring your two systems to the corner for a added layer of protection and then try to wrap the system from the deepest wall ( behind the raised planter area ) AROUND the corner and then tie them both not the d'oh spout line and away form the house. Once the gravel is in both trenches cut some more plastic the width of the trench and put slices in it with a razor knife and then install over gravel before dirt backfill as a filter to keep soil from settling into the gravel over time.

You may have to remove some of the block retaining wall to accomplish all of is but it should go back fairly easy. Just remember to have nothing but gravel under it so the wall won't settle.

I have waterproofed hundreds of basements and worked for the nations largest basement waterproofing company ( EVER-DRY ) and this is the way they would do it. It sounds like a lot of work but it really isn't. Could be accomplished in a long weekend say labor day weekend coming up. I would do the digging by hand. If you hit the gas service with a mini excavator then you have a gas leak, weekend charges from the utility company to repair and that could cost easily $300-$600. Also, call you local or state utility locating company to locate and mark all utilities which SHOULD only be your house electric, telephone, catv and gas service.

If I were giving a estimate on this outside work I would figure 1 1/2 tons of 1" washed gravel, pipe, plastic and tar. Approx $200-$300 for material.

Another aspect is if the moisture stains on the interior wall are low to the floor then you MIGHT need or want a sump pump in that corner to evacuate water table water under the floor. If possible put it right in that corner below the floor line about 12-18" and run the discharge out the wall and tie into the downspout line to get water away from home and prevent it from recirculating.

This is a lot of info and quite a bit of work but if you continue to let the problem go then the foundation will continue to get weak from the water pressure especially if it is a block foundation.

If I were closer I would come by and help but feel free to pm me and we could exchange #'s for more clear direction.

Good luck to you and I hope I have helped.
 
I follow you up to a point....
1. If I am digging 12-24" deep along the wall for about 10 feet, I am only going to be part way down the wall. Is that correct?
I thought I would have to dig down to the foundation which is about 4' at the corner of the basement wall and about 6' up at the top by my porch stoop area.

Our walls are poured cement thank god....


I get the roofing tar and visqueen...

2. why not use a silt sock specifically for corrugated pipe? I have got plenty left from another project.

THanks


If the moisture is in the corner then you are better off digging up both walls to make sure you have the corner covered. From the previous post I take it that the foundation in a block foundation. Block foundations are notorious for cracking in a Christmas tree pattern in the corners due to excess pressure.

I would dig up both walls by hand approx 12-24" deep and approx 12-20" wide pitching the bottom of both squared bottom trenches to the corner. Clean the walls with flat shovel then wire brush and let dry. Use a plyable ( if too stiff then last the 5gal bucket sit in sun ) roofing tar to coat the walls, apply the 4-6mil visqeen to the wall and let it sit in the trench like a gutter running parallel with the wall.

Install at least 3" corrugated perforated pipe and covering with 1" washed round gravel. Do not use pea gravel as it will clog with sediment very quickly. I personally would run both pipes to the corner and tie them into the d'oh spout line. If it is deep enough and you have enough fall away from the home. If it is not deep enough then you would need to take it deeper as long as you have enough fall away front he home.

The corner can get tricky with the tar and plastic because you don't want a gap in the two " systems " you would want to have a Seperate layer of tar and plastic over the corner BEFORE you bring your two systems to the corner for a added layer of protection and then try to wrap the system from the deepest wall ( behind the raised planter area ) AROUND the corner and then tie them both not the d'oh spout line and away form the house. Once the gravel is in both trenches cut some more plastic the width of the trench and put slices in it with a razor knife and then install over gravel before dirt backfill as a filter to keep soil from settling into the gravel over time.

You may have to remove some of the block retaining wall to accomplish all of is but it should go back fairly easy. Just remember to have nothing but gravel under it so the wall won't settle.

I have waterproofed hundreds of basements and worked for the nations largest basement waterproofing company ( EVER-DRY ) and this is the way they would do it. It sounds like a lot of work but it really isn't. Could be accomplished in a long weekend say labor day weekend coming up. I would do the digging by hand. If you hit the gas service with a mini excavator then you have a gas leak, weekend charges from the utility company to repair and that could cost easily $300-$600. Also, call you local or state utility locating company to locate and mark all utilities which SHOULD only be your house electric, telephone, catv and gas service.

If I were giving a estimate on this outside work I would figure 1 1/2 tons of 1" washed gravel, pipe, plastic and tar. Approx $200-$300 for material.

Another aspect is if the moisture stains on the interior wall are low to the floor then you MIGHT need or want a sump pump in that corner to evacuate water table water under the floor. If possible put it right in that corner below the floor line about 12-18" and run the discharge out the wall and tie into the downspout line to get water away from home and prevent it from recirculating.

This is a lot of info and quite a bit of work but if you continue to let the problem go then the foundation will continue to get weak from the water pressure especially if it is a block foundation.

If I were closer I would come by and help but feel free to pm me and we could exchange #'s for more clear direction.

Good luck to you and I hope I have helped.
 
Yes, you are correct about the depth. I went back and looked at your pics again after my post. Really the thing this outside system will be collecting is surface ( rain, irrigation ) water so it will be acting as a gutter for the house wall. The only reason I might dif down to the foundation in your situation is to get a seal on the sill plate where the house wall and foundation meet. Too much moisture there could rot your sil plate and that will be BIG MONEY to replace when it completely rots away.
If the digging is easy ( soil type, lack of roots etc ) then I would take the system down to the foundation level, which looks to be about 3+ feet on the one wall.


Silt socks already installed on corrugated pipe work well until the sock gets clogged which it will over time but not as fast as pea gravel. I am currently a contractor for new home builders a couple of which are nationwide builders ( Ie cheap ) and one builder RYAN HOMES uses silt sock for their basement drainage. When I go in and pipe/gravel their basements before the walls are poured the silt sock will be clogged sometimes before I get the gravel around the footers if there is muddy water laying around the footers from ground water or rain.



I highly recommend using just perforated corrugated pipe with 1" washed gravel. It is fairly inexpensive for a 50' or 100" roll. If you have some of the silt sock pipe left over go ahead and throw it in there with the non sock pipe. The void of the inside of the pipe is the key. Water will go the path of least resistance and the void of the pipe acts like a sponge and will draw water to it. Then the gutter shape of the visqueen will act to direct that water to the outlet pipe.
 
A coup,e of other suggestions, use some visqueen to wrap around your bushes to pull them back out of your way. Wrap around, pull tight and then tie into a knot. It will help a lot. Don't leave the plastic on all weekend if the project takes that long. Unwrap in the evening when done for the day t let the bushes breath. Then re wrap the next day.

Also, looking at your pics again. The brick wall that runs perpendicular to the house may pose a problem with getting the corner of the foundation wrapped with tar and plastic. If it does then just do two two separate systems.

The system behind the raised retaining wall could be run to surface parallel to the brick extension wall and the other could be tied into the down spout line if the depth is right and there is enough fall away form the house.

I sure hope I have been of some help. Like I said before, feel free to contact me with any other questions. I will do my best to help. I dig ( pun intended ) this kind of stuff. :D
 
Andrew,
It was good talking to you this morning. I hope things made more sense than my post. Here is the ( crude ) drawing I told you I would post. Like I said, feel free t call with anything else. don't work too hard on it.

Matt



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Matt,

THanks for the detailed picture. Gotta luv mud for connecting experts. This is going to make my job a lot easier. looks like I will get the 13yr old on it with me and work on it over the last few weeks of summer.
Will post some pictures of progress when I start....

A
Andrew,
It was good talking to you this morning. I hope things made more sense than my post. Here is the ( crude ) drawing I told you I would post. Like I said, feel free t call with anything else. don't work too hard on it.

Matt



 
Matt .. wants to add my thanks as well ...your notes are VERY informative and I intend to apply some the instructions you have thoughtfully provided...THANKS!
 
Matt .. wants to add my thanks as well ...your notes are VERY informative and I intend to apply some the instructions you have thoughtfully provided...THANKS!

No problem. Glad to be of some help and put backnto the MUD community. I will work on getting my photo bucket pics back up in the next few days.

One more note, try to use a winter grade roofing tar. It will be more plyable.
 
Hi all,

thought I would post up some pictures of the big dig at my place. This is a new house for me from last pictures (long story), but having to put in a french drain and move the gutters out beyond the house so they drain properly (back yard is very level). Perfect time to use my nephews and college friends.
The bear of the problem has been under the deck. We have been battling black widows, excess concrete and a constrained area. Kinda like the Great Escape, but no guards, barbed wire or solitary confinement...

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