Banana Ratings for some 90K/120K items...

[GregLCA]

I've been reading the archives and really like the "Banana Scale" ratings when I see them.... sort of an unofficial method of letting people know how much time and skill is going to be involved for a particular project.

My parts are enroute for a large 90K/120K Service and I'm debating how much of it to farm-out and how much to just do myself. My local Toyota dealer is actually quite helpful and accommodating and is always working with me to help shave $$$ from a bill when they can, but some of their labor costs for what I believe are "simple and quick" repairs seem really out of whack.

What I'd like to do is list the items that need to be done, and ask the group to put a "Banana Rating" next to each of them.... that way, I can pick off the "easy" stuff myself to save some money and let them do the heavy lifting on the more skilled, difficult and time-wasting parts. I've already got a full-time job... so my objective is not to spend ALL my time on repairs to get the costs to $0... I just want to grab the proverbial "low hanging fruit" in terms of cost savings... then pay the dealership to finish up the rest.


So, here's the list:

• Replace Timing Belt & Water Pump and both idler pulleys and the tensioner
• Replace PCV Valve and gasket
• Replace Thermostat and gasket
• Replace Coolant "T's", hoses and clamps
• Replace Front (Heated) 02 Sensor (Driver's side)
• Replace Spark Plugs
• Replace Fuel Filter
• Flush Brake Fluid
• Flush PS Fluid
• Replace Gear Oil in Front Diff
• Replace Gear Oil in Rear Diff
• Replace TransferCase fluid
• Lube F/R driveshafts
• Clean Throttleplate / Fuel System
• Install Front OEM shocks
• Install Rear OEM shocks

My temptation is to immediately do the O2 Sensor (bought the special offset socket already), and the spark plugs (time consuming but low risk unless the coil packs are brittle/fragile)... I have no idea about things like the PCV valve.... and the fluid swaps in the transfercase and diffs is probably quick enough to be worthwhile. I've read that the brake system needs to be pressurized or somehow purged with a Toyota-specific scan tool??? No idea.. I bought some Kroil penetrating fluid and some high-temp anti-sieze just for good measure

Anyway.....feel free to add your bananas to this list, or sort it from easy to hardest... however you want to help out is appreciated.


-G

Thanks.

 

[jcrandall]

As a single mechanic myself, here is what I consider low hanging fruit from the list. In my vernacular, to be on the list the item must be
a) doable without SSTs,
b) not take more than a half day,
c) and easy to confirm its done correctly so as not to cause an on-road accident.

• Replace Thermostat and gasket = no need to remove all kinds of plastic and hoses, drain radiator, unscrew three nuts, old one out, new one in, refill (after the t's of course)

• Replace Coolant "T's", hoses and clamps = cut the olds, preassemble new hoses, install new, refill, burp

• Replace Front (Heated) 02 Sensor (Driver's side) = old out, new in

• Replace Spark Plugs = old out, new in

• Flush Brake Fluid = gravity drain, add new, then bleed, gravel road abs activate, more gravity bleed.

• Lube F/R driveshafts = remove undercovers, pump grease in until new grease shows up, prob good to do U joints same way

• Clean Throttleplate / Fuel System = disconnect battery, unbolt, spray cleaner (with glue on straw), rebolt, reconnect battery.

• Install Front OEM shocks = old out, new in

• Install Rear OEM shocks = remove spare, old out, new in, no need for hole drilling.

Based on your K5 build, you have more than enough know how to do all these. And if you're not familiar with Kroil - its my new favorite helper. 10x better than PB blaster, not that anyone asked.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Problem is, what I think is easy, someone else may be petrified to even try. I've clumped your list into how I feel about them:

Very easy (if you can change a tire, you can do this)

• Replace Gear Oil in Front Diff
• Replace Gear Oil in Rear Diff
• Replace TransferCase fluid
• Lube F/R driveshafts

Little more difficult, but still straightforward

• Clean Throttleplate / Fuel System
• Install Front OEM shocks
• Install Rear OEM shocks
• Replace spark plugs
• Replace Coolant "T's", hoses and clamps
  
• Replace Fuel Filter
  
• Replace Thermostat and gasket
  
• Replace PCV Valve and gasket
  
• Replace Front (Heated) 02 Sensor (Driver's side)

You should know what you're doing, potential safety concern or greater damage to motor if not done correctly

• Flush Brake Fluid
• Flush PS Fluid
• Replace Timing Belt & Water Pump and both idler pulleys and the tensioner

 

[badlander]

jcrandall,
What do you mean "gravity bleed"? To me that sounds like fluid out - air in......

 

[GregLCA]

Based on your K5 build, you have more than enough know how to do all these. And if you're not familiar with Kroil - its my new favorite helper. 10x better than PB blaster, not that anyone asked.

Thanks for the list! Yes, the "Might As Well" Build is pretty far off the deep end.... but the key difference is that I don't need to have it running at the end of each day to get to work, and if I break a bolt or end up missing a critical part to complete a repair I can afford to wait a few days to sort it out.

I've never tried Kroil before, but I've read a lot of praise about it online. On my 1972 Blazer, there wasn't much concern about saving rusty bolts.... I just snapped them / cut them off and replaced them later on. The Land Cruiser is a different animal, and for things like O2 sensors and upper/lower shock bolts I'd really like to improve my odds of getting things apart cleanly!!

Problem is, what I think is easy, someone else may be petrified to even try. I've clumped your list into how I feel about them:

Very easy (if you can change a tire, you can do this)

• Replace Gear Oil in Front Diff
• Replace Gear Oil in Rear Diff
• Replace TransferCase fluid
• Lube F/R driveshafts

Little more difficult, but still straightforward

• Clean Throttleplate / Fuel System
• Install Front OEM shocks
• Install Rear OEM shocks
• Replace spark plugs
• Replace Coolant "T's", hoses and clamps
  
• Replace Fuel Filter
  
• Replace Thermostat and gasket
  
• Replace PCV Valve and gasket
  
• Replace Front (Heated) 02 Sensor (Driver's side)

You should know what you're doing, potential safety concern or greater damage to motor if not done correctly

• Flush Brake Fluid
• Flush PS Fluid
• Replace Timing Belt & Water Pump and both idler pulleys and the tensioner

That's VERY helpful.... I'm weighing the options for anything that disturbs the coolant system. I have NO interest in doing the timing belt/waterpump myself, and since I know that they will drain all the coolant as part of that service I'm willing to try a couple of the smaller items (Heater T's, Thermostat) and risk losing a bit of coolant in the process.... I can top off with regular water if needed to get me to the dealership for the remainder of the service work. My only concern is how hard it might be to "burp" out air bubbles in the coolant system. Some cars are harder than others....In the Chevy world, it's usually just as simple as running the engine with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens... then refill the radiator and crack a beer! Not sure if the Toyota is easier or harder than that??



-G

 

[jcrandall]

jcrandall,
What do you mean "gravity bleed"? To me that sounds like fluid out - air in......

Good question, what I mean is open say the passenger side rear bleeder, and add more brake fluid to the resovoir as the level drops. The idea being that the new fluid replaces the old and you shouldn't introduce much air as long as you don't let it get too low. The purists are not fans of this process , but for a hack like me it is way better than nothing.

 

[hankinid]

I've never tried Kroil before, but I've read a lot of praise about it online. On my 1972 Blazer, there wasn't much concern about saving rusty bolts.... I just snapped them / cut them off and replaced them later on. The Land Cruiser is a different animal, and for things like O2 sensors and upper/lower shock bolts I'd really like to improve my odds of getting things apart cleanly!!

That's VERY helpful.... I'm weighing the options for anything that disturbs the coolant system. I have NO interest in doing the timing belt/waterpump myself, and since I know that they will drain all the coolant as part of that service I'm willing to try a couple of the smaller items (Heater T's, Thermostat) and risk losing a bit of coolant in the process.... I can top off with regular water if needed to get me to the dealership for the remainder of the service work. My only concern is how hard it might be to "burp" out air bubbles in the coolant system. Some cars are harder than others....In the Chevy world, it's usually just as simple as running the engine with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens... then refill the radiator and crack a beer! Not sure if the Toyota is easier or harder than that??

-G

Fuel filter is on the one- level, barely...as is draining and refilling the transmission, transfer case, diff's, and engine. Same with driveshaft slip joints and u-joints.

For the T's and thermostat, drain about a milk jug of coolant via the petcock at the bottom of the radiator and you might lose a few ounces removing and replacing the T's and thermostat, maybe.

After 2-3 heat-up / cool-down cycles, you'll see the coolant level in the recovery tank stabilize...i.e., in my experience, the cooling system is self-bleeding.

hth

Steve

 

[jcrandall]

Thanks for the list! Yes, the "Might As Well" Build is pretty far off the deep end.... but the key difference is that I don't need to have it running at the end of each day to get to work, and if I break a bolt or end up missing a critical part to complete a repair I can afford to wait a few days to sort it out.

I've never tried Kroil before, but I've read a lot of praise about it online. On my 1972 Blazer, there wasn't much concern about saving rusty bolts.... I just snapped them / cut them off and replaced them later on. The Land Cruiser is a different animal, and for things like O2 sensors and upper/lower shock bolts I'd really like to improve my odds of getting things apart cleanly!!



That's VERY helpful.... I'm weighing the options for anything that disturbs the coolant system. I have NO interest in doing the timing belt/waterpump myself, and since I know that they will drain all the coolant as part of that service I'm willing to try a couple of the smaller items (Heater T's, Thermostat) and risk losing a bit of coolant in the process.... I can top off with regular water if needed to get me to the dealership for the remainder of the service work. My only concern is how hard it might be to "burp" out air bubbles in the coolant system. Some cars are harder than others....In the Chevy world, it's usually just as simple as running the engine with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens... then refill the radiator and crack a beer! Not sure if the Toyota is easier or harder than that??
-G

FWIW, when I had a T break recently, I burped it with the process you just described, except with the front and rear climate set to heat high. Seemed to work fine

 

[Scottb4857]

Gravity feed bleeding the brakes by yourself doesn't work on the lc system. Has been discussed many times, but short version is follow the fsm. Slightly longer version is 1) get a helper, have them pump the pedal three times and hold down on the third pump. 2) Then you crack open the bleeder valve for a 2-3 seconds, then close the bleeder valve. Repeat until fluid runs clear. Of course you want to remove as much old fluid as possible from the reservoir first then add fresh. Don't let it get to low or you introduce air into the system and get to start all over. If you never let it get too low and not having problems with brake pedal already you will be fine. If pedal is already soft, need to have someone with the correct SST to bleed and cycle the ABS system to get all the potential air out.

As others have said, most of that list is pretty straight forward, some more time consuming than others. Since these are all "I have to get it back together tonight" jobs, do your research and ask the questions before you start so don't get caught with a problem once you dive in. Good luck and have fun!

 

[hankinid]

Gravity feed bleeding the brakes by yourself doesn't work on the lc system. Has been discussed many times, but short version is follow the fsm. Slightly longer version is 1) get a helper, have them pump the pedal three times and hold down on the third pump. 2) Then you crack open the bleeder valve for a 2-3 seconds, then close the bleeder valve. Repeat until fluid runs clear. Of course you want to remove as much old fluid as possible from the reservoir first then add fresh. Don't let it get to low or you introduce air into the system and get to start all over. If you never let it get too low and not having problems with brake pedal already you will be fine. If pedal is already soft, need to have someone with the correct SST to bleed and cycle the ABS system to get all the potential air out.

I've never had an issue with vacuum bleeding (e.g., Mighty Vac or similar). Easy to do by yourself.

Steve

 

[badlander]

I have a Gast industrial vacuum pump and it does not do squat on the front calipers. I think there must be some kind of valve or restriction in the master cylinder that blocks the flow when the pedal is up. As a result, I put speed bleeders on and pump, fill, pump, fill, pump, fill........you get the picture. I'm paranoid I'm going to damage the master cylinder from pumping so much.
hankinid, please post info as to how you get the vacuum pump to work if you are using it on the front calipers......
The rears are easy. Turn on the ignition, open the the bleeder valves and the motor pumps the fluid out. I wish there was an easy solution for the fronts but I haven't found one yet.

 

[Scottb4857]

Not to be too difficult, but why not just follow the fsm? First choice is to have one of the SST options, but if you don't page BR-8 of the 2004 fsm lays out the exact procedure. This overcomes all the issues your talking about and works great. You can do it yourself if you have a way to hold the pedal down after pumping, but much easier to have a helper. My eleven year old daughter did a fine job.

 

[GregLCA]

Let me say something that everyone here already knows.....

THESE TRUCKS ARE AWESOME!!!

I tackled my first "one banana" job last night after work: new OEM front shocks.

Now I'm not what you'd call a "fast" worker, so I was really pushing my luck to get it finished in the 2.5 hours I had before I lost all my daylight outside. I jacked up the truck and pulled the wheels and gave the upper and lower bolt a quick shot of Kroil and let it soak in while I got my tools ready. For a 14-year old truck that's lived it's whole life in NH it was amazing to see how easily everything came unbolted....no drama, no broken bolts! I credit the oil undercoating that had been done in previous years.

Anyway, I reused the 4 large washers from the original shocks since the new ones only came with a new upper nut and 2 rubber upper bushings. I cleaned all the rust off each of them, and then gave them a quick coat of zinc chromate paint to seal them up for another 14 years. I also cleaned all the dirt and loose rust from the lower shock pocket area and surrounding metal and then saturated it with a zinc phosphate wash to neutralize the rust in that area. I even wire-wheeled the original lower bolt and zinc'ed it so I didn't have to reinstall rusty parts onto my new beautiful shocks.

So overall, I left the entire area in better shape than I found it....and the new shocks finally went in with no real fuss.

WOW! I can't believe what a dramatic difference the new shocks make! Even before I left the driveway I could already tell that it was riding better, and as I headed down our bumpy, frost-heaved street it was like riding on a cloud made of butter!! The only thing that spoiled the experience was that the rear shocks were still fluttering around over bumps (they are still original 137,000 units).... But I've got the parts to swap them out too. . At $70 for the front shocks I can't even describe what a phenomenal change it was to the overall feel and ride of the truck. I don't think there is anything you can do for that price, that could make such a big impact.

One banana down...... And a "bunch" more to go!


-G

 

[RND1]

Nice work! Where did you buy the shocks? I'm on Bilsteins, but want to go back to OEM.

 

[GregLCA]

Nice work! Where did you buy the shocks? I'm on Bilsteins, but want to go back to OEM.

Since I'm new to the "LC Enthusiast" scene, I placed orders with about 4 different places just to get a feel for different vendors.

For the shocks I went with:

https://parts.olathetoyota.com/

I honestly wouldn't recommend them as a source. The prices were OK but they said that everything was "in stock" and it still took them 7 days to put them in a box and ship them out..... and another 3 days to arrive from KS. 20 years ago, people expected that kind of timeframe. But I live in an AmazonPrime world now, and if a company can't ship the same day I order.....something's wrong!!!

"Beno" would be a good source for the OEM shocks. I placed an order with him and it shipped the same day. He definitely takes care of people on this forum. And his prices are great and he doesn't throw an unusually large shipping & handling fee into the order to run the costs up. Good guy, solid vendor.


-G

 

[GregLCA]

• Install Rear OEM shocks = remove spare, old out, new in, no need for hole drilling.

So I have to ask as a followup question:

Why do you pull the spare tire for the rear shocks? Admittedly I haven't spent much time looking back there yet, but it seems that the rear shock mounts are substantially forward of where the spare tire is located...??

I'm not sure if I'll have time tonight to do the rears, but now that the front is dialed-in so nicely, it really makes the bad rear shocks THAT much more noticeable!



-G

 

[hankinid]

So I have to ask as a followup question:

Why do you pull the spare tire for the rear shocks? Admittedly I haven't spent much time looking back there yet, but it seems that the rear shock mounts are substantially forward of where the spare tire is located...??

For the less than 5 minutes you spend to drop the spare, you'll have a lot more room to get to the shock mounts.

Steve

 

[TheForger]

Is any jacking required on the axle for rear shock replacement? Raise it, lower it, or don't mess with the axle at all?

 

[Scottb4857]

Is any jacking required on the axle for rear shock replacement? Raise it, lower it, or don't mess with the axle at all?

I suppose you could try, but why? At the very least you would jack up the back end to get the wheels off and give better access to everything.

 

[GregLCA]

Is any jacking required on the axle for rear shock replacement? Raise it, lower it, or don't mess with the axle at all?

For the front shocks, I pulled the wheels and put the frame on jackstands.

I did the upper nut first, which allowed the shock to drop slightly....this took the weight off the lower shock eye and the bolt was able to come out easily. Otherwise you'd be fighting against the weight of the lower control arm and would probably mangle the bolt threads trying to drive it out sideways.

Installation was the opposite. Slide upper stud into mount (no nut) then drop the lower mount into position and slide the bolt in. With all the fresh, thick rubber bushings up top I only was able to catch a few threads on the nut, but I was able to draw the nut all the way down.

QUICK TIP: The upper stud has a shoulder on it that is intended to allow you to "bottom-out" the nut against it. If you aren't sure how much "squish" to put in those upper bushings don't sweat it......just crank down the nut. It stops automatically when it hits that shouldered area.


-G