Ball joints shot - tie rod end boots torn also. What else?

[shtbrwn86]

1999 LX 470 - 250k miles

Both upper ball joints are squeaking pretty bad (boots are torn). Outer tie rod ends also have torn boots for who knows how long. I know the steering rack was replace in the last 5 years, so at this point I am going to focus on the other stuff.

Regarding the ball joints: I don't think I have the time or skill to really mess with the control arm bushings so I think I am going to replace the upper and lower arms. I know many on here will say not to replace the arms and it's just a waste of money. Well the reality for me is I will either replace the arms myself, or find someone who had done the bushings and ball joints and have them do that for me. Maybe there is someone in the mud community that I could pay to do the bushings and ball joints for me? I mean the arms are going to be over $1,000 to do all 4! Also, I have zero interest in ever lifting this thing beyond the 2" of AHC which I plan to keep, so I don't think I need aftermarket arms, although they are cheaper?

Tie rod ends are fine. I can do those myself.

My question is, what other wear items in there should I address while I have it all apart, mainly thinking about alignment. I would like to take care of all the main things that would require an alignment so I can get it done all at once.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

I know many on here will say not to replace the arms and it's just a waste of money.

I disagree. I replaced the ball joints and bushings myself in all the control arms - it was a pain in the ass and took more time to do than it should have. Sure, I saved money doing that, but not enough for me to honestly say it was worth doing. Just buy the control arms - they come with new bushings and ball joints - and buy the LCA frame bushing, all of which you can replace yourself if you have a modicum of mechanical ability.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I'm a fan of replacing the entire arms if it doesn't put you in a financial bind. I've done plenty of bushings on car projects. They're a pain, even with all the right tools. Some are easy, some are a nightmare. Whip out the torch, drill out the rubber, still wont budge, grind out the wall of the sleeve, still wont budge, heat again, still wont budge, grind more of the wall clean through, now it popped loose only 45 mins after we started. How many more to go?

Buying genuine Toyota bushings and good ball joints (555) doesn't save you enough to make it worth the hassle, IMO. Buy the entire arm and make life easy on yourself.

I replaced all 5 of my rear control arms in one 90 minute session recently. Had I gone the cheap route and done just the bushings I'd have only completed 1 or two arms in that time and probably put myself in an annoyed mood for the evening.

 

[shtbrwn86]

Good to know. I mean I don't mind doing my own wrenching, but stuff like torching and grinding out bushings sounds like it sucks. And when those of you who have done it more than once and still think it's a pain, then I am definitely going to replace the entire arms.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[shtbrwn86]

Any reason I shouldn’t consider used parts on eBay? Found a seller (reputable salvage yard) with an upper control arm (103,000 miles) for $53 and free shipping. I mean it almost seems like I have nothing to lose if they have all four control arms. Plus they offer a “lifetime warranty” if the ball joints fail they ship you a replacement.

I mean mine lasted 250k. If I am expecting the same longevity on these used parts that buys me many many more years.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Any reason I shouldn’t consider used parts on eBay? Found a seller (reputable salvage yard) with an upper control arm (103,000 miles) for $53 and free shipping. I mean it almost seems like I have nothing to lose if they have all four control arms. Plus they offer a “lifetime warranty” if the ball joints fail they ship you a replacement.

I mean mine lasted 250k. If I am expecting the same longevity on these used parts that buys me many many more years.

Wasted labor is my reason for not doing that. If you don't mind repeating the labor, then go ahead and try.

Keep in mind the bushings wear from use and age. 100k is still a lot of miles for a wear component like that, but if they look good in the listing (and the pictures are clear enough to really tell) then maybe you'll end up ahead.

Lifetime warranty on stuff like that is worthless, IMO. The labor is worth more than the part.

 

[nissanh]

Don't use used parts. Those are worn and they say it has 103K miles. Who knows the truth. Life time warranty... ok, what if they don't have a replacement?

Go with New OEM and pay once and have it good for life.

 

[ohuj100]

I disagree. I replaced the ball joints and bushings myself in all the control arms - it was a pain in the ass and took more time to do than it should have. Sure, I saved money doing that, but not enough for me to honestly say it was worth doing. Just buy the control arms - they come with new bushings and ball joints - and buy the LCA frame bushing, all of which you can replace yourself if you have a modicum of mechanical ability.

I'm a fan of replacing the entire arms if it doesn't put you in a financial bind. I've done plenty of bushings on car projects. They're a pain, even with all the right tools. Some are easy, some are a nightmare. Whip out the torch, drill out the rubber, still wont budge, grind out the wall of the sleeve, still wont budge, heat again, still wont budge, grind more of the wall clean through, now it popped loose only 45 mins after we started. How many more to go?

Buying genuine Toyota bushings and good ball joints (555) doesn't save you enough to make it worth the hassle, IMO. Buy the entire arm and make life easy on yourself.

I replaced all 5 of my rear control arms in one 90 minute session recently. Had I gone the cheap route and done just the bushings I'd have only completed 1 or two arms in that time and probably put myself in an annoyed mood for the evening.

Were both the upper and lower control arm components (bushi, bj's) from OEM equally worn? What mileage were you replacing at? Did you replace ball joints first, or bushings, both? What arms were you replacing with !?

In my case, I am wondering how to cost effectively navigate replacing upper bj's. Similar mileage to OP, aftermarket Torsions, and OME Springs ~1.5 lift. Is worn BJ's a decent push to go to new arms? There are many pros to entirely new arms for the uppers, new bushings, and potentially serviceable bj's.

 

[shtbrwn86]

Don't use used parts. Those are worn and they say it has 103K miles. Who knows the truth. Life time warranty... ok, what if they don't have a replacement?

Go with New OEM and pay once and have it good for life.

Yeah. The more I thought about it the more I realized it's not a good idea. Especially for something like this. I mean the originals lasted 250,000 miles. My goal is to get to 500,000 miles. But whatever ends up happening, I will never have to replace the ball joints or bushings again in my ownership if I go with new OEM. It also looks like kind of a PITA, especially the lowers, so why risk having to do it twice?

 

[shtbrwn86]

Were both the upper and lower control arm components (bushi, bj's) from OEM equally worn? What mileage were you replacing at? Did you replace ball joints first, or bushings, both? What arms were you replacing with !?

In my case, I am wondering how to cost effectively navigate replacing upper bj's. Similar mileage to OP, aftermarket Torsions, and OME Springs ~1.5 lift. Is worn BJ's a decent push to go to new arms? There are many pros to entirely new arms for the uppers, new bushings, and potentially serviceable bj's.

I don't know how I feel about the serviceable ball joints. I mean the OEM ones last so long, I don't know that I see the point?

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Were both the upper and lower control arm components (bushi, bj's) from OEM equally worn? What mileage were you replacing at? Did you replace ball joints first, or bushings, both? What arms were you replacing with !?

In my case, I am wondering how to cost effectively navigate replacing upper bj's. Similar mileage to OP, aftermarket Torsions, and OME Springs ~1.5 lift. Is worn BJ's a decent push to go to new arms? There are many pros to entirely new arms for the uppers, new bushings, and potentially serviceable bj's.

Mine had 204k miles when I replaced the bushings and ball joints. All the bushings in all of the control arms were shot (torn, cracked, dry rotted). Both lower ball joints had too much vertical play, and although the upper ball joints didn't have much play, the boots were torn and dirt/sand/etc. were inside the joint. Thus, I opted to pull all of the control arms off and replace the bushings and ball joints.

IIRC, this cost me about ~$150 total (including shipping) for all 4 ball joints (Sankei 555 from Cruiser Outfitters) and around $300 total (including shipping) for all 8 OEM Toyota front control arm bushings, including the lower frame bushings (~$35/bushing from PartSouq). So my total out of pocket expense was ~$450 to replace all the ball joints and bushings, upper and lower. I already had all of the tools to do the work, so I had no expenditures for tools or labor charges at a shop.

Compare that to new OEM Toyota control arms: ($255 for upper X 2) + ($278 for lower X 2) + ($35 for lower frame bushing X 2) = $1,140 total for new control arms with new OEM bushings and OEM ball joints already in them. So I basically saved around $700 replacing the ball joints and bushings myself, but the ball joints are probably slightly poorer quality than OEM Toyota joints. However, if you have to purchase the tools to get the old bushings and ball joints out and new bushings and joints pressed in, you're looking at cost savings closer to $500 instead of $700, not to mention the time spent doing it (the bushings are a time-suck, but ball joints are easy). Even worse, if you have to pay a shop to do the bushings and ball joints, well you're probably going to lose your ass on labor charges and will end up spending more money than if you had just bought new OEM control arms.

All that to say this: If I could do it over, I would just buy new control arms and spend 2 hours pulling the old ones off and bolting the new ones on.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

I don't know how I feel about the serviceable ball joints. I mean the OEM ones last so long, I don't know that I see the point?

I agree. Though the OEM joints technically are serviceable with these $10 upper and lower boot + grease kits:

 

[shtbrwn86]

Ok so I am really torn here. I wouldn't be doing anything to the front end right now, but the ball joints forced my hand. I am fine pressing in new ball joints for the amount of money I would save. But the reality is the bushings on all the control arms have 250,000 miles. Is it stupid to just replace the ball joints and leave the bushings alone? Will I notice a difference with the new bushings?

As I said earlier, I am not going to press in new bushings. If I address the bushings it will be in the form of new control arms. My cart on partsouq is up to $1500 and that doesn't include tie-rod ends from cruiseroutfitters.

There are just other things on the LX I would rather address like the severely out-of-spec AHC that might give me a better bang for my buck? I guess I don't even know what new CA bushings would do to the ride?

All that to say this: If I could do it over, I would just buy new control arms and spend 2 hours pulling the old ones off and bolting the new ones on.

This is why I am torn...I feel like if I am getting in there, I should just do it all. And since I am not doing new bushings I guess it's new control arms for me!

 

[ohuj100]

Mine had 204k miles when I replaced the bushings and ball joints. All the bushings in all of the control arms were shot (torn, cracked, dry rotted). Both lower ball joints had too much vertical play, and although the upper ball joints didn't have much play, the boots were torn and dirt/sand/etc. were inside the joint. Thus, I opted to pull all of the control arms off and replace the bushings and ball joints.

IIRC, this cost me about ~$150 total (including shipping) for all 4 ball joints (Sankei 555 from Cruiser Outfitters) and around $300 total (including shipping) for all 8 OEM Toyota front control arm bushings, including the lower frame bushings (~$35/bushing from PartSouq). So my total out of pocket expense was ~$450 to replace all the ball joints and bushings, upper and lower. I already had all of the tools to do the work, so I had no expenditures for tools or labor charges at a shop.

Compare that to new OEM Toyota control arms: ($255 for upper X 2) + ($278 for lower X 2) + ($35 for lower frame bushing X 2) = $1,140 total for new control arms with new OEM bushings and OEM ball joints already in them. So I basically saved around $700 replacing the ball joints and bushings myself, but the ball joints are probably slightly poorer quality than OEM Toyota joints. However, if you have to purchase the tools to get the old bushings and ball joints out and new bushings and joints pressed in, you're looking at cost savings closer to $500 instead of $700, not to mention the time spent doing it (the bushings are a time-suck, but ball joints are easy). Even worse, if you have to pay a shop to do the bushings and ball joints, well you're probably going to lose your ass on labor charges and will end up spending more money than if you had just bought new OEM control arms.

All that to say this: If I could do it over, I would just buy new control arms and spend 2 hours pulling the old ones off and bolting the new ones on.

What components come with the arms? Any additional parts that should be ordered when doing the service? The arm assemblys are going up in price.

I don't have access to air tools . Is straight replacement something that can be done with hand tools? Forgive me for the silly question but can the spindle with axle hub be removed entirely from the arms, or just one at a time?

 

[JunkCrzr89]

What components come with the arms?

Bushings and ball joints are already pressed into the arms.

Any additional parts that should be ordered when doing the service?

Lower frame bushing. But also a good time to do wheel bearings, CV axles, diff seals, etc. as “while you’re in there” maintenance/repairs.

I don't have access to air tools . Is straight replacement something that can be done with hand tools?

Yes. Get a 1/2” breaker bar and a 3- to 4-foot pipe to break loose the BJ nuts, LCA bolts, and torsion bar torque arm bolts. Also need a 1/2” torque wrench that goes up to 200 ft-lbs.

can the spindle with axle hub be removed entirely from the arms, or just one at a time?

Yes. Pop both ball joints out of the spindle, remove the CV axle circlip, remove the brake caliper and ABS sensor, and pop the tie rod end out, then pull.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I don't know how I feel about the serviceable ball joints. I mean the OEM ones last so long, I don't know that I see the point?

I think you're on the right wavelength there. A good joint with well sealed and durable boots doesn't need service for a decade or more.

The serviceability marketing is really just addressing a significant shortcoming in the part's initial quality, imo.

If you can't make the joint last ten years, throw a zerk fitting on it and market it as "serviceable".

OEM Toyota is king here. It's a simple part. Tight tolerances and high quality rubber yield a part that may have an order of magnitude longer average service life than the typical parts store stuff.

 

[ohuj100]

Bushings and ball joints are already pressed into the arms.

Lower frame bushing. But also a good time to do wheel bearings, CV axles, diff seals, etc. as “while you’re in there” maintenance/repairs.

Yes. Get a 1/2” breaker bar and a 3- to 4-foot pipe to break loose the BJ nuts, LCA bolts, and torsion bar torque arm bolts. Also need a 1/2” torque wrench that goes up to 200 ft-lbs.

Yes. Pop both ball joints out of the spindle, remove the CV axle circlip, remove the brake caliper and ABS sensor, and pop the tie rod end out, then pull.

That was super helpful, much appreciated and thank you!

 

[JunkCrzr89]

I think you're on the right wavelength there. A good joint with well sealed and durable boots doesn't need service for a decade or more.

The serviceability marketing is really just addressing a significant shortcoming in the part's initial quality, imo.

If you can't make the joint last ten years, throw a zerk fitting on it and market it as "serviceable".

OEM Toyota is king here. It's a simple part. Tight tolerances and high quality rubber yield a part that may have an order of magnitude longer average service life than the typical parts store stuff.

Facts on facts

 

[kevin2i]

The cheap rockauto lasted about 6 years/100k, replaced with same ($35 each). This is a daily driver/overland vehicle, 1” lift - if I was approaching 2” would go with nitro, icon, Dobinson’s or ?freedom with replaceable ball joint.

For the price, I can replace every year or two. My ball joints were fine, the bushings were shot. The Rockauto ‘ultra power’ are reboxed from major manufacturers, so quality may or may not be consistent. If these fail, will move up to custom or OEM (OEM are $340 ea).

Takes about 30 minutes to change out, keep the cams in same orientation. Since all my suspension is new, easy to check when there is a problem. (Bushings started making noise, some visible play when tire raised up).

Not going to bother (ever) with bushings. I did my front diff bushings - time consuming job.

I also replaced my LCA’s 100k ago. Bushings look fine, but replaced ball joints with 555’s recently. (Along with OEM steering rack). Outer tire rod ends were boxed Moog but stamped 555. I would avoid the cheapie TRE’s.

 

[hbauguess]

The cheap rockauto lasted about 6 years/100k, replaced with same ($35 each). This is a daily driver/overland vehicle, 1” lift - if I was approaching 2” would go with nitro, icon, Dobinson’s or ?freedom with replaceable ball joint.

For the price, I can replace every year or two. My ball joints were fine, the bushings were shot. The Rockauto ‘ultra power’ are reboxed from major manufacturers, so quality may or may not be consistent. If these fail, will move up to custom or OEM (OEM are $340 ea).

Takes about 30 minutes to change out, keep the cams in same orientation. Since all my suspension is new, easy to check when there is a problem. (Bushings started making noise, some visible play when tire raised up).

Not going to bother (ever) with bushings. I did my front diff bushings - time consuming job.

I also replaced my LCA’s 100k ago. Bushings look fine, but replaced ball joints with 555’s recently. (Along with OEM steering rack). Outer tire rod ends were boxed Moog but stamped 555. I would avoid the cheapie TRE’s.

Hey Kevin, since you said you just did your front diff bushings can you lead me in the right direction on where you got them? I have the part numbers but am finding one here and there between fewest and OEM parts. would like to just order everything for the front diff regarding bushings and do it one time. Any help would be great.