I have a 1978 BJ40 with a B model diesel. It will start for a couple of seconds but immediately shuts off. It will not idle. I have bled the fuel lines all the way to to the injectors and its getting fuel all the way. I have replaced all 4 glow plugs (needed replacing anyway). I have replaced the fuel filters. This is a sudden symptom and was not a gradual onset. The first time it happened the engine was warm so its not a hot/cold related issue. It does seem to coincide with my first use of B20 biodiesel. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.
B diesel only idles for a second
- Thread starter rotorheadstu
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DanS HJ-45
SILVER Star
Do you have an EDIC system?
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The EDIC system is shutting you down due to low oil pressure.
Check your oil level. Check that you have the right filter on there and that it's not one of the orange POS filters.
If you have NOT run your engine for an extended period of time (weeks, months), the oil passages and pump are dry and may not be re-priming properly.
The only way that I know of fixing this, other than making sure your oil level is on the full mark (you did check your oil level, right?), is to overfill the oil pan by several litres and then start it up. Once you have the oiling system primed again, you can drain the additional oil back out so that it's at the proper level.
Don't run the engine for a prolonged period of time with the oil level over full.
~John
Check your oil level. Check that you have the right filter on there and that it's not one of the orange POS filters.
If you have NOT run your engine for an extended period of time (weeks, months), the oil passages and pump are dry and may not be re-priming properly.
The only way that I know of fixing this, other than making sure your oil level is on the full mark (you did check your oil level, right?), is to overfill the oil pan by several litres and then start it up. Once you have the oiling system primed again, you can drain the additional oil back out so that it's at the proper level.
Don't run the engine for a prolonged period of time with the oil level over full.
~John
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If you have any bio fuel in your system, especially if it's home-made, make sure that there is NO glycerin in your fuel, pump, water separators etc.
~John
~John
- Thread starter
- #5
Is POS a brand name?
Just kidding; know what POS is. I DO have a Fram orange filter, oil level is good, but going to change it anyway. Suggestions if not Fram? Oil pressure gauge has not operated for some time, but assume that it's not part of the loop since it was out long before the problem appeared. I'm pretty sure this engine does not have an EDIC, but what/where would I look to confirm this. As stated previously, this is a straight B, no turbo, and the chassis and perhaps the engine, have been modified from their original disposition.
Thank you guys for your help. Invaluable.
Just kidding; know what POS is. I DO have a Fram orange filter, oil level is good, but going to change it anyway. Suggestions if not Fram? Oil pressure gauge has not operated for some time, but assume that it's not part of the loop since it was out long before the problem appeared. I'm pretty sure this engine does not have an EDIC, but what/where would I look to confirm this. As stated previously, this is a straight B, no turbo, and the chassis and perhaps the engine, have been modified from their original disposition.
Thank you guys for your help. Invaluable.
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The fuel control set up in an EDIC system is a small electric motor, gear and arm that turns the injection pump on and off. It is controlled by the ignition key and is designed to turn off if there is no oil pressure in about 5 seconds.
Try Toyota filiters, Purolator, Napa/Wix etc.
~John
Try Toyota filiters, Purolator, Napa/Wix etc.
~John
- Thread starter
- #7
Biodiesel used was store-bought.
Got it at an Exxon station nearby. I would HOPE that their stock is regulated and quality controlled. Thanks for asking as it did occur to me it might be part of the problem.
Got it at an Exxon station nearby. I would HOPE that their stock is regulated and quality controlled. Thanks for asking as it did occur to me it might be part of the problem.
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- #8
It appears to have an EDIC: solenoid motor mounted to the engine between the firewall and the injector pump with an arm that goes to the top of the injector pump just aft of the air line from the air intake. Is that it, and how can I check proper function?
DanS HJ-45
SILVER Star
Do a search, there's a good bit of info about the EDIC operation here.
Easiest check to do: have a helper watch the EDIC arm as you start/run the engine. It should move to "O.I." (to the rear) while the key is in start, then move to the venter just running, and watch what happens after that. If the engine just dies without the arm moving, then it may not be an EDIC problem. If the EDIC moves forward and the engine shuts off, then the EDIC is shutting it off for some reason.
The EDIC will shut the engine off if you turn the key off, or if it does not detect oil pressure (except for shortly after the key is in start, in which case it inhibits the oil pressure shutoff for a few seconds).
If the EDIC is shutting it off, try unplugging the oil pressure switch wire, and see if it still acts up or not. The switch just grounds out the wire when there's no oil pressure, which is what commands the EDIC system to shut the engine off. So if you have a short in that wire, or the switch is stuck closed the engine will never "detect" oil pressure.
I would personally not do any of this without a working oil pressure gauge though. At the least, go buy a cheap mechanical oil pressure gauge just so you know you've got oil pumping through the engine.
Dan
If you have a "solenoid" then that'll mean you don't have EDIC and instead have an "overinjection magnet" (which is what Toyota calls the solenoid that pulls the lever on the injection pump into the "overinject" position when you don't have EDIC).
This is what an EDIC motor looks like:
I don't think you have any loss-of-oil-pressure-protection on the early "over-injection-magnet" setup (but I could be wrong).
This is the switch that senses loss of oil pressure (and turns off the engine) on an EDIC system. Can you see one of these anywhere on your engine?
- Thread starter
- #11
John, it had run regularly when the problem occured, but it's been a few months, so I'll change the oil and check pressure flow. Thank you.
Tom, thanks for the pics to remove any doubt. I do have and EDIC and will be checking it in the morning with "helper".
Dan, great advice and I'll let you know what works.
Tom, thanks for the pics to remove any doubt. I do have and EDIC and will be checking it in the morning with "helper".
Dan, great advice and I'll let you know what works.
- Thread starter
- #12
Oil changed. BUT manual stated 10.3 qts with filter change, but only needed 6.5 qts to read properly on dipstick (dipstick may not be original). Oil pan measured to approximately 11 quarts total volume but probably not full with proper service level.
Tested:
Engine runs with EDIC arm removed but EDIC shuts engine off with arm attached.
Oil Pressure Switch has open circuit with engine running, and closed with engine off. So EDIC getting inaccurate pressure indication?
Oil pressure sending unit (to gauge) not working (resistance not variable with engine RPM). Assuming oil pressure gauge is ohmmeter not voltmeter.
Tested:
Engine runs with EDIC arm removed but EDIC shuts engine off with arm attached.
Oil Pressure Switch has open circuit with engine running, and closed with engine off. So EDIC getting inaccurate pressure indication?
Oil pressure sending unit (to gauge) not working (resistance not variable with engine RPM). Assuming oil pressure gauge is ohmmeter not voltmeter.
- Thread starter
- #13
Additional note: The EDIC shut the engine off with both oil pressure wires removed. EDIC problem again?
Here's what my Owners Manual says:
Yes. Your oil switch is working fine.
No problem ... They're readily available and cheap/easy enough to replace.
Yes. It sounds like it's most probably a malfunctioning EDIC relay or EDIC motor but it could be other things like "faulty ignition switch" or "bad grounds".
I suggest searching threads on EDIC troubles.
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- #15
Lostmarbles, if you're ever in North Carolina, I owe you about 6.5 quarts of good beer.
Falco80
Burning dinosaur bones...
^^Feelin' the love tonight! Another example of why mud' and the cruiserheads who frequent here are awesome...
Your knowledge in this thread has been invaluable!!!! I used my phone to video the EDIC arm and it indeed moved toward the rear and after about 1 second it moved all the way forward and killed the engine. I do have the oil level on Full. I'm a recovering Land Rover guy who has seen the light and changed to Toyota's, but I'm not familiar with the engine components yet. Can you point me to the oil pressure switch so that I can follow your directions and unplug this to see if this will prevent the EDIC arm from killing the engine? I might just have a bad oil pressure sensor?!?!? Thank you!!!
Might want to hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to ensure you have adequate pressure too.
Watching this thread closely. I don't have quite the same symptoms as you are describing, but I wonder if the issues are driven by similar problems... My thread is here: How come I have to blip the throttle to get my 3b to run when cold?
The low oil pressure shut off only has a few seconds delay on start up before it turns your pump off .During cold weather it can push trucks with normally low oil pressure past the delay and kick in the shut off feature. Revibg the engine up builds oil pressure higher and faster.
