Axle questions toy vs. dana/14 bolt

[VETTE60]

Okay fellers. for those of you with experience...

now that i am gonna start my 55 build i have a quandry. i have a built set of toy axles and am not sure if i should swap to a dana 60/14 bolt. hmmm. can you weigh in

current set:

Front fj60. 4:88, ARB, Longfiield 30 spline Chromo super set, marlin high steer 4runner calipers.

Rear Fj60 full float, 7/16" hub bolts (recent thread/upgrade) 4:88, ARB, Poly Perf. chromo Axles.


so... these are pretty dang built and the only problem I have had was shearing the hub studs on the rear . prior to the 7/6" bolt fix. pretty dure that wont happen again. been running 37's.

so do I start over with a 14 bolt rear and a Dana 60 front? or am I good. prolly gonna run 38/39's for tires.

currently running an NV4500/toy box/split case. If I swap, now i would go with an atals t-case.

experienced suggestions gladly taken. thanks -Vette

 

[megolfer]

I think if you jump to 38/39" tires you will have to be very light on the pedal. I had almost that exact setup and I just upgraded to dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear with a atlas. Now I dont worry about the axles breaking. I am running 39.5" iroks.

With the power you are running I would not got bigger than the 37's. The toybox and split case will hold, but I think you will start to have axles problems.

 

[locrwln1]

As Camo once said, "Wheeling scared, ain't no way to wheel."

I say upgrade now.

Jack

 

[VETTE60]

I think if you jump to 38/39" tires you will have to be very light on the pedal. I had almost that exact setup and I just upgraded to dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear with a atlas. Now I dont worry about the axles breaking. I am running 39.5" iroks.

With the power you are running I would not got bigger than the 37's. The toybox and split case will hold, but I think you will start to have axles problems.

that is good input. I certainly don not thrash my stuff when wheeling, but I do not want to have to be delicate.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Chris-What is the overall plan? Are you raiding the FJ60 for parts, or building an entirely new truck? If you are thinking 1 tons, I assume it will become your primary wheeling truck?



I have not installed any 14 bolts yet but I have 2 in my garage right now. One is narrowed to 61 inches with an offset diff and that is going in my FJ60 this winter. I am sort of picking away at the disc brake conversion.

The other is a Cab and Chassis 14 bolt that is 63 inches wide that will eventually go in my 40 when I get back to it in a year or two. I'm going to leave it centered and run SM465/Atlas.

I personally, think you can't go wrong with a 14 bolt in the rear, even if you keep the Land cruiser front. You know it will hold up to big tires and be as cheap to build and use as anything else.

 

[VETTE60]

Chris-What is the overall plan? Are you raiding the FJ60 for parts, or building an entirely new truck? If you are thinking 1 tons, I assume it will become your primary wheeling truck?



I have not installed any 14 bolts yet but I have 2 in my garage right now. One is narrowed to 61 inches with an offset diff and that is going in my FJ60 this winter. I am sort of picking away at the disc brake conversion.

The other is a Cab and Chassis 14 bolt that is 63 inches wide that will eventually go in my 40 when I get back to it in a year or two. I'm going to leave it centered and run SM465/Atlas.

I personally, think you can't go wrong with a 14 bolt in the rear, even if you keep the Land cruiser front. You know it will hold up to big tires and be as cheap to build and use as anything else.

yeah, the plan is to build a 55 sort of buggy with the fj60 drive train. I am sick of smogging and having scorching hot floor boards from the "y" pipes and Cat. I also would like to get that 383 to live a bit better, which I cannot do to meet smog. Plus I have the 80 for the less hardcore family trips
Enter the 55: it I bought a '70 55 carcass and want to chop the top, cage it and bob it to still be a family rig. not looking to be a hardcore byggy, still want it to be streetable. and awesome on the trail. i have everything on the 60 for the swap and it is not gonna be a show rig so I think I can do it in a reasonable amount of time.

I really just want to get a good start and not have to change the drivetrain later or spend a ton of money getting an offset axle set up. trying to get a head start in the process and get in the right direction early.

so I can stay with the d-train I have now, or ditch the toy box/split case 60 axles, and go atlas and 60/60 or 60/14bolt.

 

[VETTE60]

well I scored a rear Dana 60 63" wide. just need to find a front . picking it up tomorrow so i guess i may be swapping axles and t-case. I may have some built cruiser axles for sale then....

 

[mookie]

unless that 60 is 35 spline it's not really that great of an upgrade, i'd MUCH rather have a 14 bolt

i think your on the right track though.....if it's in your budget, then go tons and atlas and never look back!

 

[VETTE60]

unless that 60 is 35 spline it's not really that great of an upgrade, i'd MUCH rather have a 14 bolt

i think your on the right track though.....if it's in your budget, then go tons and atlas and never look back!

hmm. not an upgrade. really? can't I put in a set of 35 spline dutchmen's though? and be way stronger? not that familiar with the axles other than toyota. would it be $$$ to set up that rear D60? i keep hearing that a lot of guys don't like the 14bolt as much and the only reason I can find is that the housing is bigger and hangs up more easily.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I think the point is that a 14 bolt is usable as is. The center section is very large with a low hanging lip. It can be significantly trimmed as you probably know. Still the D60 is going to have better clearance.

I spent all afternoon working on one of mine-got filthy dirty. Great easy to work on axle though. Got the disc brake conversion all sorted out. Let me know if you go that route. I can guide you a bit on the part numbers you want to do the disc brake thing.

A Dana 60 needs significant upgrades to be much of an improvement.

Don't the spindles need to be bored out to fit the 35 spline axles? I don't remember.

Are you going with 8 lug wheels?

 

[VETTE60]

great info on that. I see the points. I am gonna pass on the dana60 and look at the 14 bolt then. I don't want full width tho. how hard was it for you to narrow your drew? i like the simple rout better and not that much scrilla $$$

 

[Cruiserdrew]

great info on that. I see the points. I am gonna pass on the dana60 and look at the 14 bolt then. I don't want full width tho. how hard was it for you to narrow your drew? i like the simple rout better and not that much scrilla $$$

WFO will narrow it for reasonable money( I want to say $200 +50 for a short stock shaft). The 14 bolt has a center pinion, but the diff itself is offset and runs a short side and a long side inner. If you cut down the long side, to run another short side, it offsets the pinion to the right-perfect for Land Cruiser and 61 inches wide. Since the FJ60 is 58, but the wheel offset is 2 inches less, with wheels it will only be one inch wider than the stock axle.

For your 55, you might look for a C&C 14bolt. (Cab and Chassis). It is 63 inches wide due to differences in the hubs only-It runs the same shafts as regular 14 bolts(regualar 14 bolts are 67 inches wide, unless out of a van). Usually these are advertized as "dually" 14 bolts, but 1 ton dually chevy's came with Dana 70s, so there is a high likelyhood it will be from a cab and chassis truck. If you did the same trick, it would end up 57 inches wide, which could be perfect in an FJ55. Anyway, food for thought.

I called them, and right off the top they had a customer with an FJ40 and a 14 bolt they had narrowed, that no longer wanted it. They gave me his # and when I called he wanted it out of his yard. $150 complete. Even had disc brake brackets (which I cut off to go with better ones)

Anyway, they were cool, and so when it's time for lower gears and an airlocker, I'm taking it to them.

Before you go too far, read this:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/index.html

 

[VETTE60]

WFO will narrow it for reasonable money( I want to say $200 +50 for a short stock shaft). The 14 bolt has a center pinion, but the diff itself is offset and runs a short side and a long side inner. If you cut down the long side, to run another short side, it offsets the pinion to the right-perfect for Land Cruiser and 61 inches wide. Since the FJ60 is 58, but the wheel offset is 2 inches less, with wheels it will only be one inch wider than the stock axle.

For your 55, you might look for a C&C 14bolt. (Cab and Chassis). It is 63 inches wide due to differences in the hubs only-It runs the same shafts as regular 14 bolts(regualar 14 bolts are 67 inches wide, unless out of a van). Usually these are advertized as "dually" 14 bolts, but 1 ton dually chevy's came with Dana 70s, so there is a high likelyhood it will be from a cab and chassis truck. If you did the same trick, it would end up 57 inches wide, which could be perfect in an FJ55. Anyway, food for thought.

I called them, and right off the top they had a customer with an FJ40 and a 14 bolt they had narrowed, that no longer wanted it. They gave me his # and when I called he wanted it out of his yard. $150 complete. Even had disc brake brackets (which I cut off to go with better ones)

Anyway, they were cool, and so when it's time for lower gears and an airlocker, I'm taking it to them.

Before you go too far, read this:
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

great info. thanks

 

[mookie]

one nice advantage of the 14 bolt is that the stock shafts are strong as hell, were talking rockwell strong here....you'll probably never break one, so that will save you big$$$ over upgrading a D60...and the 14bolt R&P is WAY stronger than the D60

if you get one and decide to shave it, check out the kit this guy Blacksheep (from pirate) makes....you could actually wind up with better ground clearance than you have now believe it or not

14 bolt shaving

 

[VETTE60]

one nice advantage of the 14 bolt is that the stock shafts are strong as hell, were talking rockwell strong here....you'll probably never break one, so that will save you big$$$ over upgrading a D60...and the 14bolt R&P is WAY stronger than the D60

if you get one and decide to shave it, check out the kit this guy Blacksheep (from pirate) makes....you could actually wind up with better ground clearance than you have now believe it or not

14 bolt shaving

cool. thanks Mook. solid info. I think that the 14 bolt rear will be the plan. now I suppose UI need to find a 35 spline D60 front.

 

[mookie]

i don't think 35 spline front D60's are very common, so most likely you will have to upgrade it, at least the outers anyway

one thing you might want to look for is a set of cucv axles from a mid 80's 1 ton chevy truck. they come with 4.56 gears and the 14 bolt comes with a detroit in it....they usually run around $1200, which is pretty much what a front D60 costs by itself, so your basically getting the 14 bolt for free

 

[Cruiserdrew]

i don't think 35 spline front D60's are very common, so most likely you will have to upgrade it, at least the outers anyway

one thing you might want to look for is a set of cucv axles from a mid 80's 1 ton chevy truck. they come with 4.56 gears and the 14 bolt comes with a detroit in it....they usually run around $1200, which is pretty much what a front D60 costs by itself, so your basically getting the 14 bolt for free

That is my understanding too. You want a Kingpin SRW Chevy D60. It will be 30 spline. Then you upgrade the outer shafts to 35 spline. It sounds like the preferred axles are from Superior but many companies make them. Most of the Chevy D60s you see are from dually trucks and so the WMS position is wrong. The CUCV axles are nice but not always easy to find.

Stupidly, I did not buy a front D60 for sale at River City Diffs-It was a DRW Chevy, but had the correct hubs to make it SRW. He wanted $1000. At the time I thought that was way overpriced. I have since learned that is the going rate, and the axle was clean and nice. Plus, Sean is a good guy to do business with.

Some take a Ford high pinion D60 and have the axle tubes reworked to swap diff sides, but by the time you do all that, you could just buy a new one done the way you want.

Stoked for this build as I will head the same direction over time.

 

[VETTE60]

i don't think 35 spline front D60's are very common, so most likely you will have to upgrade it, at least the outers anyway

one thing you might want to look for is a set of cucv axles from a mid 80's 1 ton chevy truck. they come with 4.56 gears and the 14 bolt comes with a detroit in it....they usually run around $1200, which is pretty much what a front D60 costs by itself, so your basically getting the 14 bolt for free

seems that I recently saw a pair for sale. may have been the whole truck. this came in the diesel military GM trucks right?

 

[VETTE60]

i don't think 35 spline front D60's are very common, so most likely you will have to upgrade it, at least the outers anyway

one thing you might want to look for is a set of cucv axles from a mid 80's 1 ton chevy truck. they come with 4.56 gears and the 14 bolt comes with a detroit in it....they usually run around $1200, which is pretty much what a front D60 costs by itself, so your basically getting the 14 bolt for free

there is a Dana 61 for sale in sac on CL. isn't this a 35 spline Dana 60? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.

 

[VETTE60]

That is my understanding too. You want a Kingpin SRW Chevy D60. It will be 30 spline. Then you upgrade the outer shafts to 35 spline. It sounds like the preferred axles are from Superior but many companies make them. Most of the Chevy D60s you see are from dually trucks and so the WMS position is wrong. The CUCV axles are nice but not always easy to find.

Stupidly, I did not buy a front D60 for sale at River City Diffs-It was a DRW Chevy, but had the correct hubs to make it SRW. He wanted $1000. At the time I thought that was way overpriced. I have since learned that is the going rate, and the axle was clean and nice. Plus, Sean is a good guy to do business with.

Some take a Ford high pinion D60 and have the axle tubes reworked to swap diff sides, but by the time you do all that, you could just buy a new one done the way you want.

Stoked for this build as I will head the same direction over time.

I have seen the Ford high pinion from an F350 2003 or around there and I think it is a passenger side drop. it looks friggin' stout.