ATF: Toyota WS vs Amsoil vs Idemitsu (2 Viewers)

[bloc]

Glad to hear everything has worked out for you and that you have found what works for you. That is what is great about choices and it seems to be the 200's choices is gaining momentum.

I totally agree on changing ATF on a schedule no matter what. I also, just on empirical data available, know that synthetic bases last longer and break down less over time and use than non synthetic. It's just fact. That is why synthetic oil is widely recommended by many car manufacturers, when it wasn't not to long ago.

I do agree that Amsoil's claims of extended oil changes is part marketing, they do still recommend following manufacturers change intervals and cleverly claim it as Reserve Protection. In other words, they aren't recommending it, but if you do it, you will be better protected then the other oil's:

This is straight from their datasheet:

"Reserve Protection​

AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil provides reserve protection, allowing you to go up to 25,000 miles or one year (in normal service) between oil changes if you choose. Its unique synthetic formulation and long-drain additive system are inherently stable to resist oxidation and neutralize acids over longer periods. "

Companies like Amsoil and Ravenol do lubricants. That is their business. If they sucked at it, they wouldn't be in business very long in very short order, especially with the prices their products cost . They are also in the racing game and are allowed to develop and test in those extreme conditions. One would think they probably know what they are doing. Not to mention they are scrutinized highly by 3rd party testers all the time. Again, not a knock on OEM at all, totally adequate. It's just that knocking them because they are not OEM, is to me, short sighted.

Who is saying amsoil or ravenol suck at making fluids? Certainly not me. It is good stuff! I use Ravenol in my transfer case because toyota couldn't get any of the hideously expensive OEM stuff. But, in many cases amsoil is sold as a way to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

"Clever" bs marketing is still bs marketing. I guarantee you plenty of people just read 25k on the bottle and run it, not bothering to read the fine print about "severe service" lowering that 25k number down to 15. In my humble (hah) opinion that is irresponsible on amsoil's part. And for the record, I don't view mobil or the other players in the market as being much better, most of which have some extended interval product to compete.

Synthetic motor oil being recommended by OEMs (in non-turbo applications anyway) has much to do with the push for extended drain intervals, both out of competitive pressure to reduce maintenance cost/inconvenience, and be more green. Yeah, the stuff lasts longer. But if you are changing it often enough to maintain TBN and viscosity, and don't have temperature extremes to deal with like the bearing cartridge of a turbo, there is basically no benefit to synthetic over modern conventionals, which are amazing products in their own right, compared to a couple decades ago.

Which brings us back to WS. Tow like a sane person allowing the torque converter to lock up, change it often enough, and your odds of AB60F transmission problems are miniscule. Spend the money on amsoil if you want, just understand it probably won't make any statistical difference other than making you feel better.

6. Are there marketing claims of Toyota WS been a “lifetime” fluid that does not require maintenance false? – Yes, for any reasonable person these claims are false. (Talking about Toyota knows better)

I agree with most of your post but especially that part, and put it in the (huge) bucket of bs marketing claims.

Also, it is any person's right to claim amsoil atf will bring back Betty White...

But another option is to simply change your WS at a reasonable interval, just as you'd need to do with amsoil, and the overwhelming evidence suggests your transmission will live a long healthy life.

 

[tacoduck]

Who is saying amsoil or ravenol suck at making fluids? Certainly not me. It is good stuff! I use Ravenol in my transfer case because toyota couldn't get any of the hideously expensive OEM stuff. But, in many cases amsoil is sold as a way to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

"Clever" bs marketing is still bs marketing. I guarantee you plenty of people just read 25k on the bottle and run it, not bothering to read the fine print about "severe service" lowering that 25k number down to 15. In my humble (hah) opinion that is irresponsible on amsoil's part. And for the record, I don't view mobil or the other players in the market as being much better, most of which have some extended interval product to compete.

Synthetic motor oil being recommended by OEMs (in non-turbo applications anyway) has much to do with the push for extended drain intervals, both out of competitive pressure to reduce maintenance cost/inconvenience, and be more green. Yeah, the stuff lasts longer. But if you are changing it often enough to maintain TBN and viscosity, and don't have temperature extremes to deal with like the bearing cartridge of a turbo, there is basically no benefit to synthetic over modern conventionals, which are amazing products in their own right, compared to a couple decades ago.

Which brings us back to WS. Tow like a sane person allowing the torque converter to lock up, change it often enough, and your odds of AB60F transmission problems are miniscule. Spend the money on amsoil if you want, just understand it probably won't make any statistical difference other than making you feel better.



I agree with most of your post but especially that part, and put it in the (huge) bucket of bs marketing claims.

Also, it is any person's right to claim amsoil atf will bring back Betty White...

But another option is to simply change your WS at a reasonable interval, just as you'd need to do with amsoil, and the overwhelming evidence suggests your transmission will live a long healthy life.

Or, run that s*** for 250k with zero problems, sell the truck, and let the next guy run it another 100k miles until he wraps it around a tree.
LC’s can take an insane amount of abuse. They are designed for it.

 

[ekolpack]

This thread is funny. 200 series tranny failures are very, very, rare. From what I’ve read it’s pretty dang close to bulletproof. Same on the 100.
Run whatever ATF you like, but I’m not losing sleep over what ATF is in my truck. (Knocks on wood).

I think this gets at the root. Toyota trannies ARE close to bulletproof. Honestly they'll probably run fine for many years on any ATF, or vegetable oil, or whatever, which is most likely why WS is adequate. It's not because WS is such an amazing fluid, it's because Toyota makes amazing transmissions. That said, if you ALSO want an amazing fluid to extend the life as far as she'll go, I'd lean towards Amsoil. When combined with Amsoil engine oil, you may (key word: MAY) be able to get a lot more mileage out of your stock engine and tranny, which let's face it, are the two big limiting factors on a vehicle's useful life.

I want my Land Cruiser to be one of those rare ones that goes 1M miles on stock engine and tranny. Could I get there running Toyota motor oil and ATF? Maybe. Are my chances higher running Amsoil motor and ATF? Probably yes. Just my $0.02.