ATF fluid condition after 235k miles (2 Viewers)

[nachocruiser]

My 2004 with 'sealed' 'lifetime' transmission currently has 235k miles. Service history was pretty extensive by original owner at the dealer up to 160k miles. 2nd owner records available via carfax were pretty good at independent shops up to about 190k miles. 2 short term owners in between, car flippers I think. Anyway, I picked it up at about 205k miles.

No indication on any of the records that ATF fluid was serviced at all and no reason to think it would be as most shops consider it a 'lifetime' fluid. Thinking I know better I thought I should do a full fluid transfusion (hence my recent post on a 'different' technique). I'm in the CO mountains so it's getting more 'abuse' than it probably did before me likely in flatter areas, not to mention I'm towing an RV every so often and other trailers etc. I had to install a the hitch receiver so probably no towing before me...

So I get to it today and am amazed how clean the fluid in there looks. Below is a picture with the new clean Toyota WS being the small dot on the left, and the 'old' fluid the big splotch on the right.

Does this seem like fluid that has been in there for 235K miles? I changed out 4 qts and now I'm thinking I might just let it run another 50k miles or so. What do you experts out there say?

 

[Mike NXP]

Awesome..Who knows, its possible it was done before or maybe it just never got really hot since not much towing done before you....Either way big win on finding pretty clean fluid and doing some service...Its a bit dark but not burnt or anything I'd worry about. Does the 2004 have a transmission fluid dipstick?

I prefer a full flush and have only had Toyota do it so I'm not expert on how to DIY that full fluid exchange

 

[nachocruiser]

No dip stick @Mike NXP, starting in 2004. No dip stick seems to be referred to as 'sealed' transmission from what I've seen here. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong...

Either way, yeah, I see it as a big win too. I was expecting some much darker fluid, therefore planning on a full fluid exchange but seeing it so clean, I've decided to give it another 20-30k miles.

We'll see what other folks think but I find it hard to believe this is original 235k mile ATF fluid.

 

[Mike NXP]

No dip stick @Mike NXP, starting in 2004. No dip stick seems to be referred to as 'sealed' transmission from what I've seen here. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong...

Either way, yeah, I see it as a big win too. I was expecting some much darker fluid, therefore planning on a full fluid exchange but seeing it so clean, I've decided to give it another 20-30k miles.

We'll see what other folks think but I find it hard to believe this is original 235k mile ATF fluid.

Seems like a solid plan. If the fluid was much darker I'd suggest against mixing with new stuff.....Even as-is some folks may say to flush it but your fluid seems clean and uncontaminated so no reason to bust ass trying to get it all flushed out again...Hows it driving / shifting, anything out of the ordinary?

 

[TahoeZ]

Pretty unlikely that's the original fluid. I have changed transmission fluid in quite a few cars and trucks in the high 100ks with the original fluid and every single one of them was pretty brown. Definitely a win though.

 

[Rhetoric]

They are not considered “sealed.”

They have a way to check level using the check plug, the pan has a drain plug, the case has a fill plug, and there are procedures for exchanging the fluid.

If it was “sealed” none of those would exist. They just removed the dipstick and require a different level check procedure.

 

[nachocruiser]

Seems like a solid plan. If the fluid was much darker I'd suggest against mixing with new stuff.....Even as-is some folks may say to flush it but your fluid seems clean and uncontaminated so no reason to bust ass trying to get it all flushed out again...Hows it driving / shifting, anything out of the ordinary?

Short test drive but it's shifting nicely as it was before, no change is what I would say.

Pretty unlikely that's the original fluid. I have changed transmission fluid in quite a few cars and trucks in the high 100ks with the original fluid and every single one of them was pretty brown. Definitely a win though.

I agree with you @TahoeZ. I did my 3rd gen 4runner at about 200k miles and while I don't remember it well(it was almost 10 years ago), it was definitely much darker.

They are not considered “sealed.”

They have a way to check level using the check plug, the pan has a drain plug, the case has a fill plug, and there are procedures for exchanging the fluid.

If it was “sealed” none of those would exist. They just removed the dipstick and require a different level check procedure.

Makes sense @Rhetoric. Just a much more painful way to check the level in the end. But didn't that change (dip stick removal) come with a change in the marketing, with the fluid being labeled 'lifetime'?

 

[andrewderrick]

I'd bet money it was done.

When I got my 07 I had no record of the trans being service @ 170k miles and the fluid was much darker. Did a drain and fill, drove 1k miles, did another drain and fill, shifts much better with new WS and level being set as per scan tool.

 

[Couvi]

I had my mechanic change my transmission fluid in my 04LC last year for the first time at 240k miles — pretty sure it was darker but not burned (never towed with it). I did a full flush. Yours looks pretty new!

 

[Malleus]

When in doubt, change it. IMHO, the number one cause of transmission failure is old oil.

 

[FxFormat]

When in doubt, change it. IMHO, the number one cause of transmission failure is old oil.

I'd say the number one cause of transmission failure is abuse. ie, flooring the car when it's cold, towing heavy loads...

It's a good idea to just do a couple drain and fill on these, don't flush, drain it and measure what you drain out and put that same amount back in if you don't have a leak. If you want to get technical then do the techstream trans temp overflow fill plug method.

 

[nachocruiser]

In the name of science, I went and checked the dipstick on my 2002 4runner with about 100-120k miles on the current fluid which is Amsoil OE fluid. It looks only a little darker than the 2004 cruiser's. That tranny is still shifting smoothly at 325k miles.

I also looked at the 2003 cruiser I have with dip stick. The fluid looks similar to the 4runner. I have a record for it from an independent shop that says 'transmission service' with '3.5 qts of Type T' fluid about 17k miles ago, so just a flush and fill. That rig has 205k total miles and shifts great as well.

Interestingly, I noticed the dip stick on the 2003 cruiser says "No need to replace ATF under normal driving conditions". Listed ATF is Toyota T-IV, same as the 2002 4runner which says no such thing on the dip stick.

So the concept of 'lifetime fluid' came before the dip stick removal and surgery to check the ATF level, as well as before the switch to WS which is what the 2004 cruiser has as the listed fluid.

Incidentally, can anyone chime in on:

Is Toyota T-IV ATF a substitute for ATF-Dexron II or III? It seems to me that at least theoretically it is?

That would be great because I have plenty on hand as I look to do power steering transfusions.

 

[FxFormat]

One of my LS430 has 250K miles on it, i just drained and fill the ATF yesterday and it was still bright red, i'm pretty sure the previous owner has never had it done, since its still on its original timing belt. Which i plan on changing out as soon i see the water pump leak or make noise. Upon inspection, the belt still looked fresh.

 

[Rhetoric]

Short test drive but it's shifting nicely as it was before, no change is what I would say.


I agree with you @TahoeZ. I did my 3rd gen 4runner at about 200k miles and while I don't remember it well(it was almost 10 years ago), it was definitely much darker.


Makes sense @Rhetoric. Just a much more painful way to check the level in the end. But didn't that change (dip stick removal) come with a change in the marketing, with the fluid being labeled 'lifetime'?

That was the era of that marketing language. I am not sure Toyota marketed it that way. Volkswagen did in their 01m automatic used in the MK4 cars. But it was still serviceable as well... just marketed by the dealer as "lifetime".

I checked the recommended service intervals for my 2007 LX and it says under towing conditions to replace the transmission fluid at 60,000 miles.

I don't mind the temp check method. It's accurate. I have two vehicles that use this method and at least with the LX I can do two things that speed this up compared to my other vehicle:
- Use the transmission to pump the fluid out
- Slide under the truck without need for jack / stands (except for leveling it for the level check)