Asking for thoughts, expertise please-buying a 2016 LC...

[serpico1]

Hi All,


Please give me your help, thoughts, opinions and expertise.

I have a BMX X5 that is just too small for my wife and our family. As I began my search for a large SUV I was looking at the Yukons, Demali’s of the world but after careful consideration there is no way I am spending 70k on one of these. The long term quality is just not there for me. I live in Texas and wow, these things are everywhere. And don’t get me wrong I buy American whenever I can. I own a Jeep Rubicon for a weekend fun car and I love it but would not have bought as a daily driver.

Some history-I owned a 2007 Toyota4runner that I loved. What a rig. Zero problems, amazing machine and very capable. I knew when I got it could take me anywhere and last for years!

So here I am looking at the 2016 LC. I love this thing. I have not driven it but I don’t think I need to.

I thought about the Sequoya but it doesn’t call out to me. I thought about the Mercedes GL 550 but I don’t know, its just to like the BMW but bigger of course.

Bottom line is I am looking for a keeper! I rig that I can keep for years, will hold its value, will take me anywhere in luxury, dependable and low maintenance and by all accounts there is nothing on the market like it right? I need to make the right choice for a long term rig as I plan to keep it for at least 10 years.

A couple of questions.

1. I know this was a refresh year for 2016. Do you know how much longer the 200 series is going to be in production? Is there a chance a completely new LC hits the USA in 2016? 2017?
   
   
2. I have read about prices paid until blue in the face and have come to understand I can get this rig new for about $72-74k. Thoughts or comments?
3. For $72k to $74k which is a lot of dough, is this the best option for the value, heritage, icon, dependability, off road prowess, resale value in the market period??
   

Well, thanks again in advance for your thoughts, opinions, guidance, etc. I love this forum.

 

[Markuson]

Hi All,


Please give me your help, thoughts, opinions and expertise.

I have a BMX X5 that is just too small for my wife and our family. As I began my search for a large SUV I was looking at the Yukons, Demali’s of the world but after careful consideration there is no way I am spending 70k on one of these. The long term quality is just not there for me. I live in Texas and wow, these things are everywhere. And don’t get me wrong I buy American whenever I can. I own a Jeep Rubicon for a weekend fun car and I love it but would not have bought as a daily driver.

Some history-I owned a 2007 Toyota4runner that I loved. What a rig. Zero problems, amazing machine and very capable. I knew when I got it could take me anywhere and last for years!

So here I am looking at the 2016 LC. I love this thing. I have not driven it but I don’t think I need to.

I thought about the Sequoya but it doesn’t call out to me. I thought about the Mercedes GL 550 but I don’t know, its just to like the BMW but bigger of course.

Bottom line is I am looking for a keeper! I rig that I can keep for years, will hold its value, will take me anywhere in luxury, dependable and low maintenance and by all accounts there is nothing on the market like it right? I need to make the right choice for a long term rig as I plan to keep it for at least 10 years.

A couple of questions.

1. I know this was a refresh year for 2016. Do you know how much longer the 200 series is going to be in production? Is there a chance a completely new LC hits the USA in 2016? 2017?
   
   
2. I have read about prices paid until blue in the face and have come to understand I can get this rig new for about $72-74k. Thoughts or comments?
3. For $72k to $74k which is a lot of dough, is this the best option for the value, heritage, icon, dependability, off road prowess, resale value in the market period??

Well, thanks again in advance for your thoughts, opinions, guidance, etc. I love this forum.

Several buyers have posted similar threads here within the last couple weeks. Have a look.

Meanwhile...here's an article about why the LC is so expensive...and a good description of how a Sequoia can bump right up to $65k with similar options that come standard on the LC.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/why-t...d&utm_campaign=Feed:+jalopnik/full+(Jalopnik)

One key point they underscore: The Land Cruiser is built with a 25-years service life in mind. This is UNIQUE in the Toyota line-up, and it SHOWS when you look under the hood...under the vehicle...and at resale values.

There is just nothing out there quite like a Land Cruiser.

Markuson

 

[ryanCA]

300 series will be here for the 2018/2019

Buy the 2016 LC, it is the best of the 200 series, with the 8 speedy tranny in the USA

 

[cc1999]

I would say for question 1, that I have never seen a major refresh like the 16' just received, go for only one year. I would be shocked to see anything else done to it for at least 3 model years. I think 17',18' maybe even 19' are likely to all be the same as the current 2016 model that is actually just now starting to land at most dealers. I am betting its 2020MY before we see the 200 take its final bow.

Quest 2, that seems about right.
Question 3, Yes on all counts.

Nothing else on the market is quite like the Land Cruiser.

 

[LCHardriver_02]

So, this "family" that you speak of.... how many? Having raised 4 kids while driving a 100 series LC, I would recommend a Sequoia if you have more than 3 kids. This is especially true if you are using the Jeep as your off-road vehicle.

my $0.02.

 

[ryanCA]

^
Agree 100%

There is a reason suburban Yukon xl are auch big sellers

If you want to carry kids, family, stuff there is no room after third row

You can be like me and stuck with 21 cubic feet roof box

Many days I want to sell the trucks and get a suburban

Too old for this roof box bs

 

[Markuson]

^
Agree 100%

There is a reason suburban Yukon xl are auch big sellers

If you want to carry kids, family, stuff there is no room after third row

You can be like me and stuck with 21 cubic feet roof box

Many days I want to sell the trucks and get a suburban

Too old for this roof box bs

Ya... If only three kids though? Yank those rear seats out and you've got tons of room for stuff...

 

[serpico1]

Hi All,

I really appreciate the insights so far. Please keep them coming. To be clear, I actually don't have kids. Its just the wife and me and two dogs. That's another reason the LC is perfect. I get the Sequoia aspect if you need the extra room as its like a living room on wheels. So to be clear, the size is perfect, big but not suburban big.

I'm more interested in the value and prices paid aspect. I really appreciate people who really know this rig's opinion and before dropping 74 large, I wanted to get reassurance. Look $74 large buys a lot of different high end SUV's as we all know. I'm wondering how many of you passed on the MG GL class, Denali, Expedition, Navigator, etc to go for the LC based on the same value system that I am trying to justify?

If the redesign is a few years away and its never racking to buy a new redesign first year model, than its really 4 years until I would buy. I need to live in the moment and now wait.

Ok well thank you again everyone. Any additional comments would be great.

 

[mtnracer]

I really like the 2016 LC but the newly redesigned Lexus LX570 is pretty sweet as well. If you are looking for Escalade aesthetics, the LX 570 can hang.

We had a 2003 Land Cruiser and considered all the high end SUVs (X5, GL550, Cayenne) as a replacement but ended up with a 2010 LX570 because I know I won't have to worry about mechanical issues for a long time and they hold their value like nothing else - same as the Land Cruiser.

 

[Markuson]

Hi All,

I really appreciate the insights so far. Please keep them coming. To be clear, I actually don't have kids. Its just the wife and me and two dogs. That's another reason the LC is perfect. I get the Sequoia aspect if you need the extra room as its like a living room on wheels. So to be clear, the size is perfect, big but not suburban big.

I'm more interested in the value and prices paid aspect. I really appreciate people who really know this rig's opinion and before dropping 74 large, I wanted to get reassurance. Look $74 large buys a lot of different high end SUV's as we all know. I'm wondering how many of you passed on the MG GL class, Denali, Expedition, Navigator, etc to go for the LC based on the same value system that I am trying to justify?

If the redesign is a few years away and its never racking to buy a new redesign first year model, than its really 4 years until I would buy. I need to live in the moment and now wait.

Ok well thank you again everyone. Any additional comments would be great.

Another thought:

Here's what I would do if I had $74k to put into a vehicle:

-Buy a 2 year old Cruiser that is low miles and perfect condition (these ARE available).
-Use the savings to build it into a dream machine.

Or...if you are not going to off-road it... Still would likely buy a low miles 2014 or 2013 and enjoy the fact that the first Mall-Cruising owner bit off the first $25,000 for you.

Markuson

 

[Output Shaft]

I'll add my 2 cent opinion on when I think the next model will come out.

The FJ60 came out in 1980 and was "updated" in 1988 to the FJ62.

The FJ62 got new headlights, dash, transmission, EFI engine, and a few power doo dads.

The body, chassis and interior remained the same. That model ran for 3 years.

In some ways, the 2016 is sort of an equivalent upgrade to the previous models as the 62 was to the 60 ...but without a new engine (which isn't needed)

So my guess is... The 300 series will be the 2020 model.

 

[CT3]

I can say as someone that owned high end German SUV's (Cayenne Turbo, GL550, V10 Touareg...) and with family that currently owns a wide array of Audi models and a few Land Rover products... I just got tired of issues. The whole BS marketing ploy of German cars being built better is based on the first 5 years of ownership or during warranty periods. Having two different cayenne turbos (MY08 and MY09) leaking oil and needing everything from fuel systems (tank through injectors), valvebodys, body wiring harnesses etc replaced its just not worth it. Mind you these cars were both bought Porsche CPO with less than 30k miles each. Doesn't make them any less of a headache when they tell you they need the Porsche loaner car back after your car has been in for 30 days and then they give you a beige colored Sentra (in the middle of a New England Winter!) as a replacement.

Here are my thoughts on car ownership:
1. The price you pay for the car is not what it is worth. A 100k escalade in 10 years will still be worth less than the 75k LC.

2.Paying up front for a higher end product should result in less headaches --if it doesn't, did you really get a higher end product? MSRP on those cayennes can approach 1.5-2x that of a LC...

3. If you compare the actual cost of days off the road and time lost in for repairs and issues, the actual cost of two 70k cars can be very different. If I need to rely on my car I can't have issues where it's off the road for a month. I don't care how fast it gets to 60mph or how many lateral G's it pulls. If it's a daily driver it must be capable of being driven daily.

4. Real luxury then is peace of mind and confidence in your investment. 70-80k for a car is real money. But if it's a significant purchase than it requires significant care. From my experience with many of the Japanese products (my dad is on Infiniti number 5) the money is well spent; and as others have said there doesn't appear to be any true competitors for the LC/LC currently on the market.

[How's that for twiddling thumbs on an iPhone?? Haha. Hope some of that might help you pull the trigger]

 

[Markuson]

I can say as someone that owned high end German SUV's (Cayenne Turbo, GL550, V10 Touareg...) and with family that currently owns a wide array of Audi models and a few Land Rover products... I just got tired of issues. The whole BS marketing ploy of German cars being built better is based on the first 5 years of ownership or during warranty periods. Having two different cayenne turbos (MY08 and MY09) leaking oil and needing everything from fuel systems (tank through injectors), valvebodys, body wiring harnesses etc replaced its just not worth it. Mind you these cars were both bought Porsche CPO with less than 30k miles each. Doesn't make them any less of a headache when they tell you they need the Porsche loaner car back after your car has been in for 30 days and then they give you a beige colored Sentra (in the middle of a New England Winter!) as a replacement.

Here are my thoughts on car ownership:
1. The price you pay for the car is not what it is worth. A 100k escalade in 10 years will still be worth less than the 75k LC.

2.Paying up front for a higher end product should result in less headaches --if it doesn't, did you really get a higher end product? MSRP on those cayennes can approach 1.5-2x that of a LC...

3. If you compare the actual cost of days off the road and time lost in for repairs and issues, the actual cost of two 70k cars can be very different. If I need to rely on my car I can't have issues where it's off the road for a month. I don't care how fast it gets to 60mph or how many lateral G's it pulls. If it's a daily driver it must be capable of being driven daily.

4. Real luxury then is peace of mind and confidence in your investment. 70-80k for a car is real money. But if it's a significant purchase than it requires significant care. From my experience with many of the Japanese products (my dad is on Infiniti number 5) the money is well spent; and as others have said there doesn't appear to be any true competitors for the LC/LC currently on the market.

[How's that for twiddling thumbs on an iPhone?? Haha. Hope some of that might help you pull the trigger]

Well said. German or Rover stuff gets a lot of attention from celebrities, etc...but there is simply nothing like a Land Cruiser if you want to be confident about getting to basically anywhere...and getting back.

In short:

Bling rides get you into lots of great selfie shots...
Land Cruisers...get you everywhere else...and back.

 

[OGBeno]

300 series will be here for the 2018/2019

Where are you getting your information from? Do you work for Toyota?

 

[ryanCA]

Where are you getting your information from? Do you work for Toyota?

You can check the 300 thread. It was confirmed there from someone who is VERY familiar with Toyota LC products

 

[OGBeno]

One key point they underscore: The Land Cruiser is built with a 25-years service life in mind.

Where are you getting this information from?

Jalipnik is not a source. It is an enthusiast website. Nothing more, nothing less.

Toyota has made no such statements. Nor have they ever given a service life interval for anything except for engines based on FSM usage parameters and maintenance intervals.

 

[Markuson]

Where are you getting this information from?

Jalipnik is not a source. It is an enthusiast website. Nothing more, nothing less.

Toyota has made no such statements. Nor have they ever given a service life interval for anything except for engines based on FSM usage parameters and maintenance intervals.

Ya, OK. Point taken. I was pointing to the article.

I can't find the source...but apparently, the chief engineer behind the 100 series made a statement in an interview about 25 years being their expectation. References to this abound...but I have not seen/read the interview.

But meh... Lawyers probably wouldn't want them to make such statements, lest it become an implied warranty.

Is there something that leads you to believe a 25 years service-life is bloated though?

I've never seen another old vehicle so frequently seen in regular use...especially considering how few are sold in the US. What do you think?

 

[ryanCA]

Corollas around the world and even here in the US can be seen with quite high mileage. We have had two in our family, mid 80s and late 80s model. One went 700K miles one went 450k miles, both of which were replaced by Toyota Van (1988 LE) and a FJ60.

My 1967 Mini Cooper S, which by dad bought new, and had it till he passed away, is now 48 years old.

It does 85MPH on the 405 comfortably.

 

[Markuson]

R

Corollas around the world and even here in the US can be seen with quite high mileage. We have had two in our family, mid 80s and late 80s model. One went 700K miles one went 450k miles, both of which were replaced by Toyota Van (1988 LE) and a FJ60.

Right. The number of Corollas sold compared with Land Cruiser is HUGE, though. One year, I believe the Corolla was the US' highest-selling car of all (usually the Camry and Ford F-150 sit in this spot). Seems that Land Cruisers (as a percentage of their number sold) are EXTREMELY long-lived as a model.

 

[Katkon]

OP - where are you getting 72-74K from? That's be 2-4K below invoice, excluding any port/dealer installed accessories. TruCar in my area (Houston) suggests somewhere around 79k as a mean. TruCar will only guarantee something like 3K off MSRP which means you have to work for the discount - to get it down to avg. My employer has H-plan pricing with a local volume dealer who has 3 16s and 2 15s on the lot. Absolute most he's willing to discount to is 78.2K including 783 of accessories bundled in, and about 1500 mark-up on invoice excluding said accessories. It's a take it or leave it deal. I haven't tried anyone else in the Area, but have only seen evidence of 1 buyer on TruCar get something north of 75K, and no-one below 75K. That one buyer was 1 of 27; everyone else paid more.

If you find evidence of dealing selling below invoice please share so that I can save some more money

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