ARB-type front bumpers (safer?) (1 Viewer)

[DocuDude]

Always been curious what everyone's thoughts were on ARB-type bumpers.

Do these bumpers affect the airbag from deploying?

Is it safer at 15mph crash, worse at 60mph?

Is a DD safer with the OEM?

Thoughts?

 

[on3i11s]

Always been curious what everyone's thoughts were on ARB-type bumpers.

Do these bumpers affect the airbag from deploying?

Is it safer at 15mph crash, worse at 60mph?

Is a DD safer with the OEM?

Thoughts?

No personal experience with arb bumpers...I still have the OEM bumper

BUT...this thread is pretty recent with some good info about tube bars vs arb bars. Some informative posts in there about both along with some nice pictures from others' experiences. I'm pretty convinced that I would like to get an arb when I finish everything else

Forgot the link to thread >>

Front Tube Bumper In A Collision?

 

[half k cruiser]

When I look at the OEM bumper it doesn't look like it was designed with any kind of crumple zone, energy absorbing affect in mind. The ARB, being a more substantial piece of metal will require more energy to deform under a crash and should therefore be safer. But, this question is really subjective and I doubt you will get much in the way of a solid, fact based answer.

 

[greentruck]

I suspect you're asking about the tag and/or notice on the ARB that says something to the effect that it's for non-airbag vehicles?

Basically, the ARB wasn't certified that way and they're required to label it so. I'm guessing they'd have to document crashing one or more 80s to do that. You'd have to sell a lot of bumpers to justify that sort of investment to certify the ARB and that, I suspect, is the main reason this wasn't done.

I've read several threads over the years on this topic. Mostly everyone seems to agree that if you need them, the bumper has no effect on airbag deployment.

 

[Phildoh]

I had the ARB, changed to a slee short bus bumper and love it. As far as accident wise, yes, more metal to bend, so less deflection over stock. As the stock bumper would bend and crumple at lower speed collisions, the front "big" bumpers would sent that energy directly to the frame, potentially, setting off an airbag quicker than say, a stick bumper might absorb that impact better. As far as wheeling, I've wondered the same thing. Always thought, if I slide off this rock and smack the bumper/frame, it might set off the pillows, whereas a stock unit might crumple and soak it up. Hard to say exactly without being there first hand. And, quickly back to highway driving, the bigger, heavier car ALWAYS wins in a collision. My fiance just rear ended an F150 in her Kia soul at 17/18mph, no airbags deployed, and her entire front end crumpled, absorbing the impact. And, eight thousand dollars in damage! And, they didn't total it out! Oh well, theories are just that until proven fact or fiction! Happy bumpering!

 

[canman]

I slid on an ice covered road into a small tree (6"-8" dia) to avoid hitting a deer with my stk bumper. Speed was about 30-40 kph. I hit the tree on the PS front fender. The impact damaged the bumper, bumper supports, rad support, hood, both fenders, and both inner fenders (essentially everything forward of the windshield was replaced). The air bag did not deploy and I was able to drive home another 2 kms (no coolant leaks or other leaks surprisingly). Damage was around CAN$9K, and they were ready to total it, but the appraiser used to have one and we convinced him to fix it. I think if I had an ARB a bumper on at the time damage would have been significantly less. As others have mentioned, at higher speeds, the ARB might transfer more energy to the frame resulting in frame damage. I had no frame damage, but the cost to fix what was essentially a "fender bender" type impact was ridiculous. As tough as some people believe these Cruisers to be, they are designed to crumple like a soda can in an impact - which is a good thing for the occupants, but not so much for the truck.

 

[lumbee1]

Locally, we have a lot of tight twisty trails in the forest and there are numerous folks in the club with bent ARB wings. It's very surprising how little force it takes to deform the wings. That said, I have an ARB. Originally, I was going to build my own bumper but got a deal that I just couldn't pass up. My ARB needs to be resprayed and my plan is to shorten the side wings and add some DOM tubing for reinforcement.

ARB better than stock? Absolutely. ARB vs stock in a medium or high speed collision? Fugetaboutit.

 

[lcwizard]

When it boils down to it there's no across the board valuation for whether a plate bumper is stronger or weaker than a tube bumper.
I've literally built thousands of each. It's about material selection, design and application. ARB has to deal with one major issue that domestic builders don't.... how to ship it from Malaysia to here economically. They do it with weight reduction. They use 3mm plate ( shy of 1/8' ) on their wings. They use design and forming to make the best of this, creating part that provides the most coverage with an ascetically pleasing look
with the least weight and maximum strength that 1/8 plate will allow. Recreate the ARB in 3/16 and it's strength doubles, in 1/4" it roughly quadruples
Tube bumpers require triangulation for strength. If you simply weld a 2 ft. long 2".120 tube perpendicular to a 1/4" mounting plate and call it a bumper wing, you'll take it out hitting a coyote at 20mph. For strength there need to be three dimensions in a bumper. Plate styles do it with forming. Tubes do it by cutting and welding creating triangulation along the path of anticipated impact.
From a manufacturers standpoint, what can be done in 1 minute with plate may take twenty with tubing. The initial setup, drawings, tooling etc, with plate is more time consuming and only pays off with a product that will be reproduced in numbers so most small shops prefer tubing
if they have limited capabilities on a tooling level.
It's relatively easy to form a 1/4 channel within the dimensions of a stock configuration and have a bumper 20 fold stronger than the stock.
Not so with tubing

 

[greentruck]

When it boils down to it there's no across the board valuation for whether a plate bumper is stronger or weaker than a tube bumper.
I've literally built thousands of each. It's about material selection, design and application. ARB has to deal with one major issue that domestic builders don't.... how to ship it from Malaysia to here economically. They do it with weight reduction.
SNIP

It's not only weight reduction for shipping purposes. The ARB itself was developed as what the Aussies call a "'roo bar." The idea being, if you smacked a big ol' kangaroo, it would absorb the force of the hit while protecting vital systems like the radiator, tranny cooler, etc. So it is designed to crumble, similar to stock bumpers (which are only designed to crumble while absorbing the blow), while also protecting against more minor impacts and retaining structural integrity enough to help you limp home in case you hit wildlife.

 

[lcwizard]

I really prefer the object you hit to do the crumpling

 

[greentruck]

I really prefer the object you hit to do the crumpling

Depends on how big the 'roo is. You definitely don't want the fresh 'roo burger to bounce up and come through the windshield, that's for sure.

 

[White Stripe]

Found this about ARBs:
Australian Standards and Australian Design Rules
ARB bars are specifically designed to comply with relevant Australian Design Rules (ADR) and Australian Standard AS4876.1-2002.

The objective of the standard is to provide manufacturers with performance requirements for Vehicle Frontal Protection Systems (VFPS) and address issues including:

• Applicable ADR requirements
• Road user protection requirements
• Test method, marking and packaging

AS 4876.1-2002 does not address the issue of VFPS compatibility with Vehicle Occupant Protection Systems (eg air bag triggering). The Standard applies to the design and construction of VFPS for motor vehicles up to and including 3500kg GVM covering a number of different categories.

Introduced September 2002 the first Australian Standard for Motor Vehicle Frontal Protection Systems was published. A bull bar that complies with the standard has been designed to offer at least a minimum degree of protection to road users, including pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other vehicle occupants. The Standard is applicable to VFPS for new model vehicles first produced after 1st January 2003.

• Lighting regulations eg the bull bar must not obscure the headlights or any other external lighting
• Occupant crash protection regulations
• Sharp edges and protrusions. Also influenced by individual state roadworthy regulations
• Anchorages / fitment
• Design and profile
• ADR 42 External or Internal Protrusions. ADR 69 full frontal impact occupant protection
• ADR 72 dynamic side impact occupant protection
• ADR 73 offset frontal impact protection

Air Bag Compatibility
With an air bag equipped four wheel drive vehicle, it is essential that the vehicle's crush rate and air bag triggering is not altered when a bull bar is installed. ARB assesses each vehicle's frontal crush characteristics and replicates the crush rate into the design of each air bag compatible bull bar and its mounting system. This method enables engineers to achieve maximum possible vehicle and passenger protection without affecting the crash pulse. ARB has invested heavily in vehicle crash barrier tests to validate the performance and compliance of its air bag compatible bull bars.

Vehicles fitted with an airbag (or manufactured to comply with ADR 69 - Full Frontal Impact Occupant Protection or both ADR 69 and ADR 73 - Offset Frontal Impact Protection) can only be fitted with a bull bar which has been demonstrated by the bull bar manufacturer not to adversely affect compliance with the ADRs or interfere with the critical air bag timing mechanism. ARB’s bull bars meet these requirements.

In Summary, with an ARB bar fitted to a modern vehicle, you have the best of both worlds, with vastly better protection in animal impacts, plus the security of knowing that the vehicle’s intrinsic safety in severe accidents is not compromised.

 

[greentruck]

Found this about ARBs:
Australian Standards and Australian Design Rules
ARB bars are specifically designed to comply with relevant Australian Design Rules (ADR) and Australian Standard AS4876.1-2002.

SNIP
Introduced September 2002 the first Australian Standard for Motor Vehicle Frontal Protection Systems was published. A bull bar that complies with the standard has been designed to offer at least a minimum degree of protection to road users, including pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other vehicle occupants. The Standard is applicable to VFPS for new model vehicles first produced after 1st January 2003.
SNIP

And this is why it has the sticker we see here in the US, not US crash standards as I thought. Basically, the sticker tells you it does not meet the ADR because it's for a pre-2003 vehicle. Sort of like that sticker that California has about things being produced with chemicals that might cause cancer. It's got to be on the product to be legal, but has little to no practical effect for the end user, except deciding not to buy it.

Bottom line is that since I became a member here, I've seen it discussed several times, but I recall no reports of issues with the air bag failing to deploy when it should with an ARB mounted. There were a couple of cases where people though it might have contributed to bag deployment when it shouldn't have, but it was unclear to me that those were directly related to the ARB. You can get a 4x4 into situations totally uncontemplated for a road-only vehicle that might have triggered bag deployment, ARB or not, like slow motion rollovers, etc.

 

[half k cruiser]

Seen lots of cars take full frontal with no deployment of the airbag. Whatever criteria they use to decide deployment I don't know what it is. I suspect at least 25% of the time the airbags just fail to go off even when the sensor takes a direct hit.

As for the ARB side wings, they are relatively weak. The mid section of the bumper however is a different story. I don't know how strong the bar section is with that signature I beam looking brace thing, but it must be very strong if ARB says you can wrap your strap around it for recovery.

On a side note I took a small deer (maybe 70-80lbs at 20mph) on the corner of my Slee shortbus several months back and the only thing it did was send the deer under the tire. I thought maybe it would tweak the wing back a little bit but you can't even tell it happened.

 

[lcwizard]

Rod from Kaymar had horror stories of the Aussie regs. The bit about designing the bumper for pedestrian safety always humored me.
There were companies laminating rubber over the steel tubes to comply. I guess the extra 1/8" of rubber let you stick around in agony
a few extra days after being clobbered by an F250 while you were innocently crossing the street texting your bff

 

[jaymar]

Always been curious what everyone's thoughts were on ARB-type bumpers.

Do these bumpers affect the airbag from deploying?

Is it safer at 15mph crash, worse at 60mph?

Is a DD safer with the OEM?

Thoughts?

So, here's the thing. A tougher bumper is going to transfer more shock to you in a low and maybe a mid-speed crash, because it's not going to fold up like the stocker to absorb the impact--which then starts impacting more expensive things. BUT, if you're in a helluva high-speed wreck, that solid bumper bolted to the frame is going to be your first line of defense. Do you want a nice crumple-cushy impact that kills you--or a bone-rattling jolt that (probably) doesn't? The ARB also keeps things you hit out of your engine compartment. Though it could be made with greater thickness and higher-grade steel, for reasons stated above, it beats the hell out of most bumpers I've seen.

Quickest way to verify this? Google Land Cruiser 80 crash ARB +crash. Maybe add ih8mud to the search string. I found a guy who hit a van at 65 and walked away, and another one who hit a crane truck at 95 and broke a leg. (Unbelievable--how did he get it up to 95???) In both cases, the passenger cabin was (obviously) fairly intact. I find that impressive. Of course the Cruisers were totaled. I also found a bunch of less dramatic crashes--where the ARBed LC was pretty much fine, and the other vehicle pretty much destroyed.

Having recently been an a hit-and-run (with the family in the car) that totaled my last (smaller) SUV--that's the kind of protection I'm looking for. Crumple zone? The guy who comes across the centerline and hits you is driving your crumple zone.

As to airbag deployment, I have read (but not confirmed) that inertial sensors control deployment, such that airbags are deployed when the vehicle decelerates at a predetermined rate. (Read, comes to a car-wrecking stop.) IF that's the case (and again, I've not yet thoroughly researched this so I don't know)--then it really doesn't matter whether you've got an ARB or a featherduster bolted to the front; properly-functioning inertial sensors will trigger the bags either way.

When it comes to reinforcing the side-wings, you have to be careful; if you add supports that brace the wings against the side of the frame, you've just given the wings a way to crumple your frame in a crash--quite possibly reducing safety rather than enhancing it.

 

[ReformedJeeper]

As far as my understanding goes, the cruiser relies on a deceleration sensor, not a physical crash sensor. Changing bumpers should have no impact on the operation of a deceleration sensor. If you slow down fast enough (i.e. hit something hard enough) airbags will deploy. I can't imagine any aftermarket bumper impacting the cruiser. Other manufacturers utilize impact sensors which could be affected, but for our trucks I think it's a non issue.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

As to airbag deployment, I have read (but not confirmed) that inertial sensors control deployment, such that airbags are deployed when the vehicle decelerates at a predetermined rate. (Read, comes to a car-wrecking stop.) IF that's the case (and again, I've not yet thoroughly researched this so I don't know)--then it really doesn't matter whether you've got an ARB or a featherduster bolted to the front; properly-functioning inertial sensors will trigger the bags either way.
SNIP

IIRC, the airbag sensor is in/under the shift console, deeply buried in the center of the truck where it will sense major smacks, but tends to shrug off lesser impacts that shouldn't trigger air bag deployment.

 

[jfz80]

^^ correct

Now jaymar ... Easy on the exaggerations

It was 70 mph and there was a fair deal of good fortune involved. But granted the Arb may have helped and we're lucky to still have Scott with us still

 

[jaymar]

When it boils down to it there's no across the board valuation for whether a plate bumper is stronger or weaker than a tube bumper.
I've literally built thousands of each. It's about material selection, design and application. ARB has to deal with one major issue that domestic builders don't.... how to ship it from Malaysia to here economically. They do it with weight reduction. They use 3mm plate ( shy of 1/8' ) on their wings. They use design and forming to make the best of this, creating part that provides the most coverage with an ascetically pleasing look
with the least weight and maximum strength that 1/8 plate will allow. Recreate the ARB in 3/16 and it's strength doubles, in 1/4" it roughly quadruples.

Do you know of anyone who's doing this--making what are essentially beefed-up ARBs for 80s?

^^ correct

Now jaymar ... Easy on the exaggerations

It was 70 mph and there was a fair deal of good fortune involved. But granted the Arb may have helped and we're lucky to still have Scott with us still

Ah, thanks. All the same to me, as I'll never hit 95 anyway. From that thread:

"It's hard to describe how effective the ARB bumper appears to have been in
controlling the front deformation. I studied this in particular for quite
some time. By tying the two front frame tips together far more stoutly than
the factory bumper, it appears to
have figured prominently. In fact, the ARB was so strong that it cut through one
of the crane's obviously heavy duty tires halfway across the tread, then
bent the lip of the heavily made rim and even spun the tire on the rim about
20 degrees - yet the bumper did not deform much at this point of contact
between the frame attachments as you can see in the first photo. The factory bumper would have simply caved
in and pulled the frame tips inward, instantly reducing their ability to
withstand longitudinal force of the coming impact peak. The strength of
this bumper also distributed impact forces all across its width by not
failing/caving, which reduced the depth of penetration at any single point
across its face. As only one benefit of this behavior, it prevented the
engine from receiving another rearward hit that may have shoved the
firewall/dash assembly in further. I'd like to have that bumper bronzed."

Unstoppable 80 meets immovable object

I've asked IdahoDoug to repost the missing photos here.

In fact, you know what I've always wanted to do? Start a crash-photo thread to see how Cruisers fare--stock, ARBed, whatever. Think I'll try that now, here:

Crash Thread with Photos