ARB and Air Bags

[100 TD]

I was under the impression the purpose of this was to crumple at the same "rate" as the vehicle would have, so as to meet Vehicle design rules (ADR) and not affect the performance or deployment of the air bags design parameters.
Forgot to mention........this is an Australian winch mount, your ADR may be different

 

[turbocruiser]

Yes, I am sure that is the purpose of the design, but I also wonder if it is not also designed to 'stop' crumpling prior to taking out the rad and fan and such??? Also, I'm still really wondering about a thing that was touched on two times or so so far which is, can someone verify if when the airbags deploy, does the computer automatically render the vehicle useless until another computer is installed? This would also have life and death consequences if it is true. Thanks, and again, sorry to jump to skepticism at first.

 

[Koffer]

OK
Now that the FZJ80s and LX450s have been out wheeling here in the US has anyone seen a air bag go off while wheeling ? Not the friend of a friends sisters brother heard about one BS ?
In my 96 the trigger is under the center consle not up on the frame rails like most cars . The stock bumper is a POS for what its worth and a impact with anything small but tall(deer , person etc ) your looking at hood,bumper, headlights, grill and other not so cheap parts .Junk has hit many deer at speeds 65 mph+ and all he had to do was hose off the hair and blood. They grow big around here so that tells me airbags are not a issue. Hit a car at 40 and air bags will go off .
Im getting a ARB for my 80 airbag or not. Seen more good then bad with them.
Its just like the seat belt thing I wear it all the time and if I have die with it on, hey I did my part . I was a EMT for 8 years and saw many MVAs with many dead and only cut one dead person out of a car that was wearing a seat belt and that was because there was no more pass compartment left

 

[GXO]

From what I remember reading the zone was meant to simulate "stock" crumple through the area in which the ARB sits. I would imagine it becomes a brick wall once you crumple, but it keeps the force balanced as it crushes so the airbags react with the proper timing.

You get hit with a stiff bar and it could pop them earlier than expected/needed.

 

[Montana Cruiser]

Thanks for all the great posts guys! Its seems to me that there IS in fact some consideration given to the airbags, and that makes me feel better. As stated previously, nothing is going to be 100% but we can reduce the chances of serious injury by simply doing our part and wearing seatbelts etc. As it stands right now, my rig has a WAAG on it and I dont want to hit anything with that thing, I would much rather have an ARB in such an event. We have deer aplenty in Montana and the roads between there and Minnesota so I will be getting the ARB as soon as $$ permits.

 

[Montana Cruiser]

Here is the wording that several sites that are selling ARBs are using to describe them .... it does sound like AirBags are considered in the design.

"Engineering a bull bar means taking all things into consideration: vehicle design, crumble rate, air bags, approach angles, accessory fitment, strength, weight, and of course appearance. ARB has maintained this philosophy over the years, resulting in the pioneering of new bar design innovations: upswept and tapered wings, air deflectors, and CB and lightning mounts. ARB designs are created by people who are active 4-wheelers who know first hand the demands made on protection equipment. A collision with a deer or kangaroo can totally immobilize a vehicle"

 

[nakman]

it does sound like AirBags are considered in the design.

Of course they are considered... and then the appropriate cya tactics are employed

 

[PHAEDRUS]

100 TD,
thanks for posting the pics of the crush zone on that. just for a point of reference here most full size trucks (Well I just looked at three fords and two dodges in the parking lot) have no crush zones in the frame rail or on the mounting structure for the peice of tin front bumpers. FWIW I dont recall seeing crush zones built into the frame rails of anything but early 90s chevy trucks.
Montana,
I beleive you are on the right track here. If you are ever involved in a crash at over 15mph with impact enough to slow you quickly enough to make the airbags fire you will want them there. there is NO way I can think of the bull bar making the bags less prone to go off. only more prone to fire. If my truck had airbags I would rather they went off in a marginal call then if they did not.
Back to the can you start a car back up after the airbags are fired question. Yes you can. you have to bypass the airbag ecu in order to do this (have done it on a hyundai and a mercury never on a cruiser so dont take it as gospel) It is a pain in the a$$ to figure out but it can be done. Like I said earlier I was thinking of a kill switch to be installed but with the tight tolerances on voltage and ohm loss in the airbag system I could not figure out a way to accomplish that.
Please remember I am not an expert in any of these feilds and do not pass my self off as so, I have jsut fixed a lot of cars with some heavy damage on them and seen a lot of blown airbags. only twice have a seen an airbag go off when It should not have. once was a gm and once was a merc. both were gen 1 airbags without the speed control units our trucks use.
Dave

 

[krich97]

So I think this has been kinda beat to death but it is an important topic. Before I got my ARB, there was a discussion here and I believe the same conclusions were reached. The more I thought about it the more it became clear that the stiffer and stronger the bumper (less energy absorbtion) the sharper the deceleration in a collision. Which means that the airbags could go off in a lower speed collision than would be the case with more crumpling. However as stated above, energy is energy, and the rapid deceleration of the vehicle affects the passenger compartment too so airbags going off is still a good thing (you probably would benefit from them). This probably means that an ARB would not make you safer if you ran head first into a solid immobile object - it would result in more rapid deceleration of the passenger compartment. I am not totally convinced that crumple zones are a benefit in all cases though - the crash tests that validate them almost always involve hitting immobile objects or objects that will not move away from the vehicle after impact the way another car might (look at MAF add for the ARB). I dont like the idea that someone else with a large, heavy, solid vehicle could hit me and fold my truck into an accordian. I understand energy absorbtion but the concept of armor is pretty appealing too. My wife got hit from the side in a Subaru Outback and it could have been bad if it had been on the driver side. I kind of like the tank-like aspect of the TLC. (My conspiricy theory ) I think the government and law enforcement agencies would like to see the public in more plastic, softer, less potentially dangerous vehicles - funny how they dont want to drive them - notice the large metal and often amored vehicles they drive.

 

[Safado]

Answer...yes they do. But I'm not sure if it's an upgrade or not, or if everyone comes that way. Here's a clip from their catalog that I have in front of me. Hope this helps resolve some concerns.

 

[PACNW96]

Not to resurrect an old thread, but I e-mailed ARB USA customer service on the 80 Series ARB compatiblity with air bags and this is the response I got:

"The US model 80 series had airbags, but in Australia, they never did have airbags on the Australian models. Since our bullbars are designed and manufactured for the models in Australia, then our bars for the 80 series were not designed around airbag models. Now a lot of people still run our bar on the airbag models, but it is at the risk of the owner of the vehicle to do that. I'm not sure of how airbag deployment will be affected with one of our bars on."

Interesting that the new ARB catalog shows a 100 Series with a crash test dummy performing a crash barrier test. The new catalog states: "ARB has invested heavily in vehicle crash barrier test to validate the performance and compliance of its air bag compatible bull bars". So is this statement referring some ARB bull bars are compatible with air bags and some are not? For instance 80 series hasn't been crash tested so as to say it's not compatible?

I know this topic has already been discussed in depth, but wanted to report my findings...

Russell

 

[RavenTai]

unfortunatly Scott crash tested an 80 with an ARB, the bags deployed and perhapse saved his life.


https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=43775

 

[dclee]

So is this statement referring some ARB bull bars are compatible with air bags and some are not? For instance 80 series hasn't been crash tested so as to say it's not compatible?

Yes. If you look at the designs of later bars that are "airbag compliant" you will see that the mounts are totally different in design. They are accordian shaped, designed to crush on impact and not affect crush rate of the front of the vehicle. Older bars like the 80 are not designed this way, as, like they said, their 80s did not have airbags, so they did not feel the need to design them for airbags. Not saying the airbag won't work, in fact, it will probably deploy sooner than normal, but that's just my guess based on what I know about how they deploy (which isn't much).

Bottom line is that you are correct, some bars are designed specifically for airbag compatibility, some are not.

HTH,

 

[lx450landcruiser]

heres a story and dont ask y but i hit a metal sine post going about 15 MPH it was set in concrete and instred of breaking it just bent in half. I have an arb and the bumper had a significant dent in it upon inspection yet the air bads didnt deploy. i have my doubts as to wheather the bads will deploy sooner then stock.....

mike