April 2022 rolling out now: check 1st post. 3 Models 25% so far.

[SharpeCat]

SharpeCat, you're doing great work for us all. Eagerly watching for longer term test results between the VL and TR. But if I'm being honest that VL45 has my heart. Did I read somewhere back in the thread that another discount code is opening up for the late-comers?

Really appreciate that brother. Yes there will be a November GB as well as an extension to this one that will last a few days, whenever the TRs are ready to ship. I will update title and keep everyone posted on here. I’ll start putting next sale date, or at least a pending/TBD in title so people have a place to look without having to dig through a jungle of posts.

I’m going to get back to work on more power consumption tests soon.

Todays stream/tests:

AC initially power consumption test:

Fridge temp 60 to freezing using DC to AC adapter included with fridge. Just the AC adapter alone was drawing 6 watts before the fridge was hooked up last night, will test that again as well to double check.

DC Sustained consumption tests:

After fridge gets to 0 this time, I will begin the sustained power consumption test starting at 0. I am thinking I will test it at 2 hours each at 0, 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50. I Will end the stream and relaunch at each interval to keep things organized and easy to review.

I am thinking the initial cooling test is important, but pales in comparison to the importance of the sustained consumption tests. I may go more than 2 hours just to play it safe, maybe 2 hours for some temps, but for the most common (freezing and 41), I may do 8 hours like I did with the VL45 at 32F. This brings up the issue of what the standard testing temp should be for sustained consumption. I did 32F last time only because that’s what the fridge was at when I was ready to stream, so maybe do that instead of 41 for 8 hours. I also noticed Hobotech tested his JP40 (? Gotta rewatch video) at 32F?

Tomorrow we can repeat the same tests for AC.

Then onwards to the VL! My goal is this is to get us an idea of long-term-consumption costs for both.

 

[SharpeCat]

AC Initial Consumption test done for TR60.

Results for AC Vs DC:
60 to 0 degrees F, and Jackery started at 100% for Both. Jackery has 167wHs (Jackery 160)

AC - Jackery left at 58% after 56.5 minutes
DC - Jackery Left at 63% after 60 minutes



After jackery is charged to 100%, i will test to see how long it can sustain 0 degrees in the TR60.

 

[Hybrid Life]

this is true. the JP30 has a bump


there's not much of a taper on my JP30, and the length (23in) doesn't take into account the bump that's about 1 inch

don't have a prius to test on but hope that helps a bit

Thanks, to both you and SharpeCat for your replies. I'm pretty sure the taper is the same on all JPs, so your answer means it will be a tight squeeze if I don't space it up from the floor. But I'm pretty sure that would work for me. And with the TR45/60 being bigger in both directions (about same height but 5-10 extra liters of space than JP40/50) the TR is not an option for this particular floor space I was hoping to use.

 

[SharpeCat]

So I put 52 bottles of water in (16oz) because I wanted to do the sustained consumption test with it filled. Well, it’s been about 8 hours or so and the fridge is at 20. The fridge was at freezing empty, and by the time I loaded the water in the temp dropped to 27. Then when it equalized with the water which was room temperature, it went up into the 40s. Fridge is having to do a lot of work here.

So basically, I am still waiting on it to get back to zero before doing the sustained consumption test for freezing. This is also a good opportunity to remind people to do the initial cooling and freezing at home, more importantly for the food/drinks, and then put it in the car to sustain.

 

[SharpeCat]

@vwynn to answer your question on the colder spots, this is what it looks like for the TR. Small compartment is not freezing while big compartment has every bottle thoroughly frozen minus a few on the very top layer. There is hope for you in that small compartment on the TR, to have beer and ice cream in same single zone fridge. Will do same test for VL later and report back in.

Also, is it normal to take this long to freeze a fridge full of water? I noticed that the temp sensor must be somewhere near top or in the small compartment, and it’s coldest at bottom near the compressor, because even though vast majority of water are completely frozen, fridge is still reading 20 degrees like it did 8 hours ago. I know the temp sensor is working because as soon as I opened lid and took out big tray of frozen water, temp went up right away. Also I ran it empty again and temp went down quickly again.

 

[Hybrid Life]

@vwynn to answer your question on the colder spots, this is what it looks like for the TR. Small compartment is not freezing while big compartment has every bottle thoroughly frozen minus a few on the very top layer. There is hope for you in that small compartment on the TR, to have beer and ice cream in same single zone fridge. Will do same test for VL later and report back in.

Also, is it normal to take this long to freeze a fridge full of water? I noticed that the temp sensor must be somewhere near top or in the small compartment, and it’s coldest at bottom near the compressor, because even though vast majority of water are completely frozen, fridge is still reading 20 degrees like it did 8 hours ago. I know the temp sensor is working because as soon as I opened lid and took out big tray of frozen water, temp went up right away. Also I ran it empty again and temp went down quickly again.

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It takes as much energy to change 32F water to 32F ice as it does to change liquid water temperature by 143.5 degrees F, such as from 175.5F water to 32F water. This is due to what is called the enthalpy of fusion, the energy needed to cause the change of state from liquid to solid. There is a similar thing which happens when you're boiling water or condensing steam, but instead of being equivalent to a 143.5 degree F change in water temp, it is equivalent to about a 971 degree F change in water temp, energy-wise. Filling even a very powerful fridge with water to make ice just via the convection of air around the water bottles, will take a while unless it has a powerful fan blasting the cold air at high velocity, too. The outer bottles touching the metal cooling plates in this case, freezes those bottles more quickly via direct conduction from the metal to the plastic to the water. And the only air movement in the closed fridge without a fan, is natural convection driven by temp difference in the air making cold air fall and hot air rise. But with temps only being between 0F at the metal and 32F at the bottles, it's not equivalent to a fan, the velocities are low, and therefore so is the amount of energy transfer. Air weighs about 1/13 of a pound per cubic foot, versus 62.4 pounds for water. And air's heat capacity per pound to change it's temp a degree, is about 1/4 that of water. So overall, it takes over 3000x as much air changing temp a degree to change the same volume of water a degree. And it this case, it is trying to change it the equivalent of 143 degrees, so it's a big task to cool any bottles not well hooked up for direct conduction from the metal. Yep, it takes time. As long as the fridge/freezer is maintining the desired temp at the metal wall, it isn't the power of the fridge limiting how quickly the bottles freeze, it is the lack of a better path to conduct the cold into the bottles. Air that's barely moving is a slow path.

 

[SharpeCat]

It takes as much energy to change 32F water to 32F ice as it does to change liquid water temperature by 143.5 degrees F, such as from 175.5F water to 32F water. This is due to what is called the enthalpy of fusion, the energy needed to cause the change of state from liquid to solid. There is a similar thing which happens when you're boiling water or condensing steam, but instead of being equivalent to a 143.5 degree F change in water temp, it is equivalent to about a 971 degree F change in water temp, energy-wise. Filling even a very powerful fridge with water to make ice just via the convection of air around the water bottles, will take a while unless it has a powerful fan blasting the cold air at high velocity, too. The outer bottles touching the metal cooling plates in this case, freezes those bottles more quickly via direct conduction from the metal to the plastic to the water. And the only air movement in the closed fridge without a fan, is natural convection driven by temp difference in the air making cold air fall and hot air rise. But with temps only being between 0F at the metal and 32F at the bottles, it's not equivalent to a fan, the velocities are low, and therefore so is the amount of energy transfer. Air weighs about 1/13 of a pound per cubic foot, versus 62.4 pounds for water. And air's heat capacity per pound to change it's temp a degree, is about 1/4 that of water. So overall, it takes over 3000x as much air changing temp a degree to change the same volume of water a degree. And it this case, it is trying to change it the equivalent of 143 degrees, so it's a big task to cool any bottles not well hooked up for direct conduction from the metal. Yep, it takes time. As long as the fridge/freezer is maintining the desired temp at the metal wall, it isn't the power of the fridge limiting how quickly the bottles freeze, it is the lack of a better path to conduct the cold into the bottles. Air that's barely moving is a slow path.

That actually makes perfect sense lol, but only after me having to read it slowly.

Thanks for the detailed explanation brother much appreciated.

 

[Hybrid Life]

That actually makes perfect sense lol, but only after me having to read it slowly.

Thanks for the detailed explanation brother much appreciated.

Thanks for slogging through it slowly enough or enough times to understand, it's really counter-intuitive in some ways. Most things in life vary more smoothly, this phase change energy at freezing and boiling is an exception to that general rule. This is as if a car that goes 0-60 in 6.0 seconds, gets stuck at 32mph for an extra 14.35 seconds despite putting the same power to the wheels continuously. Very strange! I had just reread my explanation slowly, too, afraid that maybe it wouldn't make sense to anyone, or that I made a mistake. The only mistake I found was putting an apostrophe in it's when there shouldn't have been one. The numbers are reasonably accurate, though to explain things perfectly, I'd have to write another 5 pages of equations and stuff nobody would enjoy, to explain how it's as simple as I made it sound (in the sense that freezing and thawing transfers energy equivalent to some specific multiple of what's needed to cause a 1 degree change in liquid water temperature) but the calculations and details for finding and explaining that number are more complicated than I made it sound. One example: In general, one calorie of energy raises one gram of water 1 degree Celsius. But at different temperatures, the amount of energy changes a little. Each degree takes about the same amount of energy, but not exactly. So there are different definitions of the amount of energy in a calorie. One is based on heating or cooling water that is right around 20C or 68F. Another uses the average for all temps between 0C and 100C, to give the right total amount of energy needed to get from one end of that range to the other. The two versions are different by about 0.2%. The way around that problem is to pick one version and stick with it, or use something that doesn't reference water's properties at all, such as a Joule, watt-second, kilowatt-hour, foot-pound, or whatever. There are a lot of ways to look at it, but they can all lead right back to an equivalent-energy change in water temp if you want, and I felt that was the easiest way to explain it and give a feel for the size of the effect, because that's basically how I've had my own feel for it since engineering school.

 

[NYC570]

I just received my jp50 today. I'll plug it on, either later today or tomorrow. The outside box was a bit banged up but the inside box and fridge are fine cosmetically. Can't wait to test it out.

 

[CowboyTaco]

I left my JP40 running on a metal workbench for several hours and couldn't get it below 16 degrees Fahrenheit. In fairness to the fridge, the metal workbench was registering 95 degrees with my infrared thermometer and the fridge was not yet in the insulating bag. It was still below freezing, but I expected to get closer to 0 since it was set to -8.

 

[vwynn]

Cant wait for the GB extension!

Slowly trying to conceptualize the whole rear cargo.. however this is currently what im thinking for my GX470 with the VL60dual (thing is massive). The only thing is that the fridge will need to be on the left side instead of the right due to the barn doors.. Also need to take into account the fridge slide which i dont know the dimension... so things will change. The idea around the platform is so I can still sleep inside the GX if need be but also be able to store gear on top of the fridge as well since the box takes up so much real-estate in the cargo room. So far i have 19" of leg/hip room lol....

 

[SharpeCat]

I left my JP40 running on a metal workbench for several hours and couldn't get it below 16 degrees Fahrenheit. In fairness to the fridge, the metal workbench was registering 95 degrees with my infrared thermometer and the fridge was not yet in the insulating bag. It was still below freezing, but I expected to get closer to 0 since it was set to -8.

Is that empty fridge? And how much power was it using, any idea? The TR got it done in 53 minutes (60 to freezing) but that’s with AC power and drawing past 80 watts at times. On DC it drew up to 71 watts and took 60 mins. This is for a 60 liter so I imagine yours being a 40 with same compressor, should use less power to get the same temp, or same power and cool faster. Also I think I’m done waiting for all the water to freeze; accidentally unplugged it this morning and lost 5 degrees and it’s going down very slowly to begin with. I’m going to continue the tests with fridge empty.

 

[cypher2001]

I received my VL35. Like others, I only received 2 baskets. That 3rd basket would be nice.

More concerning is the DC power plug. I want a second one to adapt to anderson connectors. Unfortunately, it seem different than other DC compressor coolers. It actually seems different than the other ICECO coolers. Anyone have luck finding a source for these?

 

[cmw]

I received my VL35. Like others, I only received 2 baskets. That 3rd basket would be nice.

More concerning is the DC power plug. I want a second one to adapt to anderson connectors. Unfortunately, it seem different than other DC compressor coolers. It actually seems different than the other ICECO coolers. Anyone have luck finding a source for these?

I'm looking for plugs as well as that basket and will let you know what turns up.

Couple questions since we have the same fridge:

Have you run your fridge yet? The front and left sides of mine seem to have no insulation in the middle ~just at the corners. Does yours sound hollow in those areas and get cold when the fridge is running?

What does it sound like? Mine sounds like a muffin fan laying on a table when it is running - probably due to the internal muffin fan being loosely attached to the cooling fins with zip-ties.

Any damage in shipping? Mine had the front right top corner pushed in during shipping, and one of the (helpful) cords for pulling it out of the box bent the edge of the case between the control panel and lid.

 

[cypher2001]

I'm looking for plugs as well as that basket and will let you know what turns up.

Couple questions since we have the same fridge:

Have you run your fridge yet? The front and left sides of mine seem to have no insulation in the middle ~just at the corners. Does yours sound hollow in those areas and get cold when the fridge is running?

What does it sound like? Mine sounds like a muffin fan laying on a table when it is running - probably due to the internal muffin fan being loosely attached to the cooling fins with zip-ties.

Any damage in shipping? Mine had the front right top corner pushed in during shipping, and one of the (helpful) cords for pulling it out of the box bent the edge of the case between the control panel and lid.

Thankfully I had no damage in shipping. That was a concern of mine and I was relieved when I unpacked it. Overall construction looks ok. I'm a little peeved about small details. (the control panel sticker is constantly peeling up, lack of the 3rd basket, etc). I also have one of the lid clips mis-aligned and it pulls too much for my liking. I'll have to look if its user adjustable.
As far as sound, I had not noticed any abnormal sounds coming from the unit. I did hear gurgling when the unit was opened. I assume that was the refer lines circulating. It cools fast but I did not feel for insulation (I'll do that tomorrow or Wed when I get a min)

 

[SharpeCat]

I’ll ask about the third basket. I’m not sure about a second connector though, is there such a thing as a dc to Anderson cable? Getting a second cable and adapting that will likely be easier than adding a second plug and adapting that.

So I decided to test fridge empty to spare myself and others from having to wait a lifetime to test future fridges. If you were wondering how many 16 oz bottles came out, here is what they look like when formed into a little track for Tofu.

Anyways, am live now and will begin testing to see how long 167 wHs will sustain the TR60 at 0F.

 

[cypher2001]

I’ll ask about the third basket. I’m not sure about a second connector though, is there such a thing as a dc to Anderson cable? Getting a second cable and adapting that will likely be easier than adding a second plug and adapting that.

I want to adapt one of their stock cables to terminate in an anderson plug. I use andersons in most of my DC applications and camper.

 

[Hybrid Life]

I want to adapt one of their stock cables to terminate in an anderson plug. I use andersons in most of my DC applications and camper.

A good video for you to watch, would be the one by Jasonoid on YouTube, comparing the eleven 12v fridges owned by his father in law and himself, including a VL45. I believe he comments that all (or 10 out of the 11?) use the same DC plug type at the fridge end. He also gives a recommendations about using Andersons, or at least replacing stock 12v fridge wires with a particular 14ft male-male cigarette lighter plug extension cord, which he cuts in half to replace two lousy plugs/cords/wires on his fridges. I'll try to figure out what industry standard plug type the 2-pin plug is that goes into the VL45, and see if any high-quality repair plugs of that type are available to attach to the zip cord without soldering. Maybe there will be a choice of straight, right angle, flat, etc. There are plenty of new, complete fridge cords (with lighter plug) on eBay and Amazon for under $10 shipped, but they tend to be 5A or 10A cords, iffy to begin with before running any length of it. I'll look for something better.

2 HOURS LATER.... Well, that was quite an adventure. I couldn't find any standard spec for the plug, and I found several times where other user groups have tried to, with no success. I'd suggest either a 10A eBay/Amazon special if you want a straight plug, or as luck would have it:

The ICECO store on Amazon has the replacement cord with right-angle plug for $19, in stock, free shipping. Just search iceco 12 volt male, on Amazon. The ARB 10910076 is another option, out of stock most places, I found one 4WD place that has it for $21 plus $20 UPS Ground. It has a more interesting cigarette end than the ICECO if you find one locally to avoid $20 shipping on a small item!

 

[cypher2001]

A good video for you to watch, would be the one by Jasonoid on YouTube, comparing the eleven 12v fridges owned by his father in law and himself, including a VL45. I believe he comments that all (or 10 out of the 11?) use the same DC plug type at the fridge end. He also gives a recommendations about using Andersons, or at least replacing stock 12v fridge wires with a particular 14ft male-male cigarette lighter plug extension cord, which he cuts in half to replace two lousy plugs/cords/wires on his fridges. I'll try to figure out what industry standard plug type the 2-pin plug is that goes into the VL45, and see if any high-quality repair plugs of that type are available to attach to the zip cord without soldering. Maybe there will be a choice of straight, right angle, flat, etc. There are plenty of new, complete fridge cords (with lighter plug) on eBay and Amazon for under $10 shipped, but they tend to be 5A or 10A cords, iffy to begin with before running any length of it. I'll look for something better.

2 HOURS LATER.... Well, that was quite an adventure. I couldn't find any standard spec for the plug, and I found several times where other user groups have tried to, with no success. I'd suggest either a 10A eBay/Amazon special if you want a straight plug, or as luck would have it:

The ICECO store on Amazon has the replacement cord with right-angle plug for $19, in stock, free shipping. Just search iceco 12 volt male, on Amazon. The ARB 10910076 is another option, out of stock most places, I found one 4WD place that has it for $21 plus $20 UPS Ground. It has a more interesting cigarette end than the ICECO if you find one locally to avoid $20 shipping on a small item!

Thanks. Yes. Thats a great video. I was expecting that Iceco used the same DC plug in all of their units. This, unfortunately, does not seem that case. The VL45 seems to use the vertical angle plug which I expected was correct. Its not. The box waiting to return to amazon proves it.

The VL35 uses a horizontal angle plug (see picture below)

This uses round pins and is of a thinner shape than the vertical angle plug. I've got one of the straight on cables on order which looks like a closer match. While I'd prefer an angle connector, I have not been able to find a good match even at Iceco.

 

[CowboyTaco]

Is that empty fridge? And how much power was it using, any idea? The TR got it done in 53 minutes (60 to freezing) but that’s with AC power and drawing past 80 watts at times. On DC it drew up to 71 watts and took 60 mins. This is for a 60 liter so I imagine yours being a 40 with same compressor, should use less power to get the same temp, or same power and cool faster. Also I think I’m done waiting for all the water to freeze; accidentally unplugged it this morning and lost 5 degrees and it’s going down very slowly to begin with. I’m going to continue the tests with fridge empty.

Fridge was empty. Set to -8 degrees on AC power and MAX mode. I'm sure it sucked down a decent amount of power as every time I checked on it the compressor was running.