Anyone Taken Their Own Stock FJ Up the Rubicon Yet?

[FirstToy]

sorry to be the purveyor of bad news

well, there is a thread on ttora just about the broken rear diffs. I guess All-Pro's 05 Taco blew it's rear diff when the truck was just brand new. Seems like at least some are getting it replaced under warranty.

I am curious if Toyota will do a "quiet" redesign of that diff next year... or if it is some type of manufacturing defect.

 

[calamaridog]

The e-locker rears in the first generation Tacomas did fine. I would say failure was uncommon.

 

[BC_FJC]

I'm not clear on this but, from what I have read to date it looks like all of the blown diffs where on Automatic's. Am I correct?

 

[atomicpunk51]

The e-locker rears in the first generation Tacomas did fine. I would say failure was uncommon.

I think they are talking about 05 & newer Taco difs with the problems.

My 02 Taco with trd locker has had no problems over the last 4 years.

 

[Runner Ryan]

They are the same. The only diffrence is the Cruiser's axlehousing is a few inches wider. The pumpkin/locker is the same.

 

[calamaridog]

They are the same. The only diffrence is the Cruiser's axlehousing is a few inches wider. The pumpkin/locker is the same.

Well then I suppose this explains things doesn't it. You build a larger, heavier, more powerful truck and you get cheap on the customer and don't engineer a heavier duty replacement part. I find this disappointing.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Well then I suppose this explains things doesn't it. You build a larger, heavier, more powerful truck and you get cheap on the customer and don't engineer a heavier duty replacement part. I find this disappointing.

Noob to the forum here...but want to confirm the statement above. This is my major concern after buying my FJ. It appears that the lack of design change with the larger/more powerful Taco/FJ platforms are causing problems with the rear locker. There is an extensive thread mentioned above that details the issues.

All I can say in response to the original thread is that there are a handful of FJ's that have navigated the Rubi, some without damage, others (as detailed above) with severe damage. The time I have spent off-road made it clear the benefit of a bit of a lift (2.5-3") and some better shoes, as with any off-the-shelf vehicle. Other than those mods (well, sliders can't hurt either), the FJ has proven to be very capable. When I do get mine dirty, I don't see the need to drive around with the mud caked on for days. I typically stop on the way home to spray her down then let the kids give her a good cleaning.

 

[GXO]

Just never use the rear locker. ATRAC works fine

 

[saskdiesel]

They are the same. The only diffrence is the Cruiser's axlehousing is a few inches wider. The pumpkin/locker is the same.

Toyota down sized the Cruiser rear diff to Taco size?
This I find disappointing. The 80's had the same size front as the Hilux but kept the larger 9.5 rear.
Does the 100 series have these small thirds or are we talking about the Prado diffs?

 

[calamaridog]

Toyota down sized the Cruiser rear diff to Taco size?

Well not exactly, it's a 4runner/Prado/Tacoma, not a Land Cruiser. The point I was trying to make was the diff worked fine with the smaller 1st generation Tacoma and 4runner. A larger, heavier, more powerful vehicle like the new Tacoma/4runner/FJCruiser should have a stronger rear.

This I find disappointing. The 80's had the same size front as the Hilux but kept the larger 9.5 rear.
Does the 100 series have these small thirds or are we talking about the Prado diffs?

No, the 100 has the same size front as the 80 and a slightly beefier rear end.

 

[rusty_tlc]

After doing the Rubicon many times all I'd say to someone who wants to do it is to get some experience under your belt before trying to run the whole trail.
If you live close to the Rubicon, spend a weekend at Wentworth Springs: Go up Wentworth come back down through Loon Lake. Get your feet wet with the trail before committing to it. Go with someone that has prior experience and that is willing to spend the time spotting you.
And most important never ever loose your cool. Parts break, sheet metal gets mangles when people loose it. Keep it nice and slow. It's not a race.

Regards

Alvaro

This is great advice. Even if you have some experience with other trails it would be a good idea to do a ride along first to get an idea how tough the trail is.

I have ridden along three or four times now.

Even a mildly lifted/built Cherokee can make it through the trail with little damage if the right guy is behind the wheel.

 

[FirstToy]

Noob to the forum here...but want to confirm the statement above. This is my major concern after buying my FJ. It appears that the lack of design change with the larger/more powerful Taco/FJ platforms are causing problems with the rear locker. There is an extensive thread mentioned above that details the issues.

No, that is an assumption. It needs to be cleared up what the actual problem is w/ the rear diffs.

Is it inadequate size? Dunno, are 100 front diffs inadequate b/c they blow also?

Open rear diffs have not experienced any of the problems as factory locked units. So is it a manufacturing defect? assembly defect? Too small ring gear? Is Toyota doing a "on the roll" design change? Will there be any changes?

Alot of questions, not alot of facts. How many rear diffs are blowing? What is the %?

The problem seems to surround the oem locked rr diff. I have never heard of a single issue w/ the open 8" rr diff, which has a different ring gear size... I don't know the facts, just alot of questions

 

[greytandy]

No, that is an assumption. It needs to be cleared up what the actual problem is w/ the rear diffs.

Is it inadequate size? Dunno, are 100 front diffs inadequate b/c they blow also?

Open rear diffs have not experienced any of the problems as factory locked units. So is it a manufacturing defect? assembly defect? Too small ring gear? Is Toyota doing a "on the roll" design change? Will there be any changes?

Alot of questions, not alot of facts. How many rear diffs are blowing? What is the %?

The problem seems to surround the oem locked rr diff. I have never heard of a single issue w/ the open 8" rr diff, which has a different ring gear size... I don't know the facts, just alot of questions

Leave it to FirstToy to be the voice of reason.

 

[Mtbcoach]

No, that is an assumption. It needs to be cleared up what the actual problem is w/ the rear diffs.

Is it inadequate size? Dunno, are 100 front diffs inadequate b/c they blow also?

Open rear diffs have not experienced any of the problems as factory locked units. So is it a manufacturing defect? assembly defect? Too small ring gear? Is Toyota doing a "on the roll" design change? Will there be any changes?

Alot of questions, not alot of facts. How many rear diffs are blowing? What is the %?

The problem seems to surround the oem locked rr diff. I have never heard of a single issue w/ the open 8" rr diff, which has a different ring gear size... I don't know the facts, just alot of questions

Yes, you are right and I apologize for not being clear. All that I have read were locked when damaged.

I believe that one of the threads I read was trying to document the amount of "locked" rr diff that were damaged, in order to assist in getting them covered by the Toyo warranty. Since I came from a Chevy, I had little knowledge of this issue before buying my FJ. I don't know if it would have made a difference in my purchase though. I was surprised how a "few" were complaining that they damaged their rigs and Toyota dealers were refusing warranty repair due to "abuse". Percentages are hard to come by and probably in the single digits but is that due to the large percent of owners that never engage the rear locker? Or, just a problem with a few that put their rigs in "extreme" situations that stress the locker beyond their design limits?

Regardless, it seems like something where we should share information of one were to suffer such a breakdown. Thanks for calling me on my lack of accuracy.

 

[Michael1]

So does anyone know what the actual failure mode of the rear diffs which are blowing?

Michael

 

[FirstToy]

mtbcoach,
I was not directing my comments at you. I was speaking in general that people tend to roll w/ a theory and before you know it, call it facts.

All your questions are the same I ask too... frequency of use, use, etc. Tho I have read that some people are unlocked and just driving around town w/ it blew...

I feel like there just isn't enough info yet. Tho the ring gear might be the problem...

Right now, honestly, I feel like a open diff rig and installing ARB lockers is the strongest way to go.

But who knows, the rr locker might never be an issue for most people... but I still consider it a problem- thus, a weakspot.

 

[Runner Ryan]

A larger, heavier, more powerful vehicle like the new Tacoma/4runner/FJCruiser should have a stronger rear.

.

I have to disagree here. The diff is plenty strong enough. I have an 89 4Runner with a 5L V-8. It has the same rear axle (for the most part) as the Cruiser. It is the same 8" ring gear. It is locked, and has 38.5" tires. It is as heavy, if not heavier than my Cruiser. It gets wheeled HARD! Never had a problem.
It's all in the driver. Learn how to drive, and you won't break as often.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

It's all in the driver. Learn how to drive, and you won't break as often.

To a degree, this is true. However, the FJC is probably too heavy, and has too much motor for this differential. It would be a far better truck with real Land Cruiser components. Instead, it got Tacoma components. That's OK, but it isn't over built in the tradition of the original Land Cruisers where 1/4 ton trucks were built around 1 ton components.

I am thinking that the FJC is OK for expedition type use, but I'm not so sure about heavy duty off-road. There just is no excuse for these broken diffs in basically stock form trucks. I, too, would like to know what the failure mode is.

I would also love to see the FJC built around 100 series drive train components. That would be more in keeping with Land Cruiser tradition. Instead, it's built around light duty components from the Tacoma. Maybe next year will bring a few changes!

 

[spressomon]

To a degree, this is true. However, the FJC is probably too heavy, and has too much motor for this differential. It would be a far better truck with real Land Cruiser components. Instead, it got Tacoma components. That's OK, but it isn't over built in the tradition of the original Land Cruisers where 1/4 ton trucks were built around 1 ton components.

I am thinking that the FJC is OK for expedition type use, but I'm not so sure about heavy duty off-road. There just is no excuse for these broken diffs in basically stock form trucks. I, too, would like to know what the failure mode is.

I would also love to see the FJC built around 100 series drive train components. That would be more in keeping with Land Cruiser tradition. Instead, it's built around light duty components from the Tacoma. Maybe next year will bring a few changes!

Agreed...but I'll bet the major design focus was to keep the FJ under $30k to compete with the likes of the Rubicon, etc. And for that they had to base it on the Taco. Secondly Toyota (or any manufacturer) knows they will sell significantly more units at say $28k than say $38k which is closer to what the FJ would have been (or maybe even higher) if they based the design on the 100 drivetrain (IMO). The reality is there is a significantly larger poser market than on-trail market.

 

[powderpig]

Funny how stuff gets labeled at times. The FJC is built from the LC 120 parts that are shared from various platforms. So the parts may be shared, but may not have been built specifically for any one platform. The LC 120 in both the 2 door and 4 door models are in production for the rest of the world. We see the 4 door version in the sheeps clothing of the latest gen 4/runner and the GX 470 models. The FJ is built on the 2 door version of LC 120. The LC 120 is a landcruiser, but built to compete with certain other vechicles in the same class. So is locked rear diff first used in the LC 90/120 stuff, then shared with the Taco stuff? May be a question to ask some one. I will ask a contact I have and see if we can get a answer most of us can live with.
I know TMS is working on this currently and in the tradition that Toyota has lived up to, it will take care of issues that come up.
Individual dealerships some times do not go the full length to get things fixed under warranty, do not blame TMS for this. Go beyond the Dealership with a call to Toyota direct. Even in the 80's with a brand new 4/runner I had problems that the local dealership would not take on. It took a couple of calls to Toyota to get it straightened out. Dealerships are a franchize, most of them are not owned by Toyota it self.
If I do not reply soon to questions asked, it means that I am inbetween areas that I can get internet.
later robbie