Anyone built their own bike frame before?

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I've been riding on a fixie for a while now and am really interested in making my own frame in the next year or so because of the relatively simple geometry of fixed gear bikes. I'm in college and have a bunch of resources and machinery at my disposal (the engineering staff will help us even for personal projects!)

Does anyone have suggestions or resources they can point me to to help me on this project?

Thanks,
Eric
 
What makes a fixie's geometry any simpler than any other bike frame's geometry?

Anyway, one of my friends built a road bike (20 sp) at bambmoo studio. He put Ti couplers in so the bike breaks down for travel.
 
Yeah I've seen that bamboo bike all over the internet, that is so cool. Have you ridden it? Does it flex a lot?

And I guess I was wrong saying the geometry of the bike is any simpler, I just feel like I don't have to worry about stuff like rear brakes and getting all that sorted out.
 
we used to make monoshock bmx bikes in the 70s for racing. in fact my neighbor was the first one to do it. just look it up and see how crude it was back then. its good for a laugh but it was state of the art then. finally the bigger companys started coping it and they had the big bucks and the rest was history just google wayne king nonoshock. i made one at the same time so i guess we did it together
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Yeah I've seen that bamboo bike all over the internet, that is so cool. Have you ridden it? Does it flex a lot?
I didn't ride it, but he's about 210# and rides a Ti Moots on road. He says even with the couplers, the bamboo bike doesn't suffer much from flex. He says his bamboo rides better than my Calfee carbon (which he describes as feeling like dead wood).
we used to make monoshock bmx bikes in the 70s for racing....
Love those star honeycomb mags. Used to have a pair of red ones when I was a kid.
 
Yup, my Dad and I have built 4 bike frames, from scratch.

Back in 1975, Bicycling magazine and a small bike shop called Proteus Design in College Park MD came up with a contest where people could buy a $75 "kit" of bike frame parts, basically a box of uncut Reynolds 531 tubing and a pile of rough lugs (Campy dropouts too!), nothing else. No instructions, no design info, nothing but raw materials. The idea was to have people build a frame on their own, take photos and send them in to be judged, and the top 10 bikes would have to be shipped to the shop for final judging. Top prize was $500. I was 15 at the time, we lived in Baltimore so it was easy to go get the stuff. My dad and I decided to give it a try.

We did a lot of research, drew out a full-size design (by hand, no CAD at the time), and learned how to silver braze, with a hardware-store Mapp gas kit (which I still have). We spent the entire winter working on it, I ended up with calluses on my hands from filing off flux and extra silver. We hand-mitered all the tubes, it took forever. Meanwhile I started collecting parts that I would need for the bike: DuraAce, Sugino, Campy, etc. In the Spring we gave it a rattle-can paint job, but not before we learned how to chrome the dropouts. We took some photos, sent them in, and waited. They eventually sent us a letter, it got picked as one of the Top 10, so we carefully stripped the bike down to the frame, and delivered it to the shop. We learned that people submitted frames from all over the world for this contest, it was shocking.

Anyway, we came in 4th place. When we went to pick it up, we wanted to see the other frames. We were informed that "oh we judged the top 2 from the photos". I thought my Dad was gonna stroke out, he was furious. We went home, he fired off a letter to Bicycling Magazine, and that was the end of any future contests.

The bike is now hanging in my garage, about 10' from where I'm sitting. I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't ridden it in over 20 years.

Stuff we learned:

* stresses in bike frames are all at the joints, basically like a truss. You REALLY need to make sure your joints are tight and strong. I've seen frames snapped at the joints due to poor prep.

* frames flex a lot more than you'd think

* the geometry is more complicated than you'd think

Good luck
 
Stuff we learned:

* stresses in bike frames are all at the joints, basically like a truss. You REALLY need to make sure your joints are tight and strong. I've seen frames snapped at the joints due to poor prep.

* frames flex a lot more than you'd think

* the geometry is more complicated than you'd think

Good luck



Very cool story. I'm a little worried because I've never welded before, but I know there's staff in the engineering school willing to teach me and make sure it looks okay. But can you elaborate on what kind of prep I need to do to make sure the joints are as strong as they can be?

Also, I'm afraid it's gonna be reall heavy because I'd rather not skimp on the walls of the tubing and get fxxxed later.
 
Only do it if you what the learning experience. You won't save any $$$. The other reason to make your own is to get something different than is normally available. In the past I just had frames made for me. They could do the welding better than I could and they had the heat treating kilns for proper aluminum frame building. I first had Klein make me a couple, then later I had Cannondale make a couple. All road racing frames.

Over the past few years I've been on and off designing a full suspension carbon fiber tadpole style trike. I'm slowly reducing the number of custom parts and simplifying machining.

As for tubing, purchase tubing that has different wall thicknesses at the ends versus the middle. I know they are available for chrome moly tubes. Don't know about aluminum or carbon fiber tubes. Chrome moly would be brazed with fittings at each joint. Those fittings will set your geometry. With aluminum you can do any geometry you want, but it requires very good welds, and heat treating the finished frame. Don't skip the heat treating as the welds will kill the aluminum strength. The heat treating restores most of the strength lost.

Another frame building option is using fittings, and gluing in carbon fiber or aluminum tubes. The main issue is having the tube to fitting tolerances close enough for the glue to work properly. Beyond that it is having enough surface area for the joints to be strong enough. Fittings can be machined out of block aluminum or magnesium alloy. When using aluminum tube, it is possible to use the very high strength to weight aircraft aluminums that can't be welded. This can save some weight.

There are many other options out there. I'd join a couple bicycle building forums to get an idea of all the methods people use.
 
We didn't weld the joints, they are brazed, in lugs. Welding is waay too complicated to do on something like this, unless you have a lot of experience, and the ability to do proper controlled heat pre- and post-treatment. Frames by Klien and Cannondale are all robo-welded for consistency.

The fittings you see on bike frames at the joints of the tubes are called "lugs". Lugs on bike frames are there to only hold the tubes into position, they are too soft and flexible to really take much stress. Good bike frame tubes (like the Reynolds that we used) are called "double-butted", which means they are thicker at the ends, they are made by piercing a solid rod with a mandrel, no seams in the tube. The change in thickness happens inside the tube, the outside diameter is constant. Think about how 2 tubes intersect at an odd angle, say 72deg (the angle of my head and seat tubes). If you're building a roll cage, you only need to get it close, then the MIG wire fills in the gaps, and it works because usually the wire filler material is stronger than the base metal (the tubes). Well, with bike frames, with a brazed joint, that mitered cut of the tube must be very tight, no gaps, as brazing can't span a large gap.

So, what we did was carefully draw out each joint (again, no CAD at the time), then we created templates in paper to wrap around the tube, to scribe a cut line. We cut it with a hand hacksaw and a fine blade, then spent a lot of time filing the profile of the cut so it was a very tight fit against the joining tube. Lots of trial and error work, very tedious. But it makes a much stronger joint.

Folks that do this a lot will have a lathe setup with cutters that are the same precise size as the joining tube, they use the cutters to slice the mitered tube off, with a perfect miter. Much faster, obviously. We did it all with cheap hand tools, we didn't even have a drill press.

It's also important to lightly sand off the mill scale from the tubes, so the flux can stick to the tube.

Our first brazed joints were a mess, we were so obsessed with making sure to fill the lug with brazing rod material that we got flux and brazing globs all over the place. Think of the first time you ever soldered a copper pipe joint, you'll know what I mean. We soon learned that the flux was a huge PITA to file off, it was like glass. We got better with each joint, by the end of the 4th bike there was very little filing to do. Kinda like mudding drywall, the more you do it, the less sanding at the end to get it to look nice.

The kit we bought only provided the tubes and lugs, dropouts (the place where the wheels bolt on), the fork crown, nothing else. So we had to hand-make fittings for terminating cables, which we did with plain Grade 5 hardware store 1/4" bolts. We made water bottle mounts, and mounting points for racks and lights, all by hand, from stuff we scrounged.

Dropouts were chromed with a car battery and a little tub of chromium fluid (try buying that these days), if was really interesting.

We painted the frames in the garage, hung from the ceiling, with rattle cans, then slowly cured the paint in the kitchen oven (my Mom wasn't happy). We developed a method of making decals by using Chart-Pak rub-on letters (remember, no computers, no laser printers, nothing like that was available at the time), on gummed mailing tape. Once the decals were applied, we sprayed clear over the entire frame.

Good times. I should try to scan the contest entry photos, they came out great.
 
I've been looking at a lot of homemade frames and yeah, a bunch of them have those lugs and brazed tubing, but a lot of them are also welded. I'm definitely not doing this to save money, I'm doing it for the learning experience, bragging rights, and fun. I know it won't be as clean as a professionally made bike, nor will it be as light. But plenty of frames are made out of steel right? I'm not too worried about weight because fixies save on weight anyway...could I go steel and weld it myself?

And that'd be awesome if you could get a picture of your bike up. Sounds like I'll have a much easier time than you did your first time...Dartmouth has a ton of equipment that's open for any student to use. So lucky.
 
Why not make it out of wood? G7 is a genius when it comes to wood frames. There is a picture around here somewhere of his latest creation.
 
Good luck. Years ago I looked into building a few frames for myself. I bought (an expensive) manual (The Paterek Manual) that is meant for early frame builders. Then I found a few places on the west coast that sell a week or so of shop time and instruction so you go there for 5 days and go home with a frame.

Find a local builder and try to help in the shop in exchange for advice and access to tools and jigs.

Good luck. Hope you build a good one

Frame Jig Questions - Mountain Bike Review

Bicycle Frame Design References

The Paterek Manual
 
But plenty of frames are made out of steel right?

That's like saying a lot of cakes are made out of flour. Steel is not steel. Plain high carbon steel like you might be thinking will not have the resilience to take the thousands of cycles of being flexed, it will fatigue and crack at the joints. Chrome-moly is much more common, as is some high-tech aluminum and carbon fiber stuff.


Man, I wish we had any of those books and the Internet waaay back when we did this. We had nothing but the library and pestering the guys at other bike shops. We had a local shop that was owned by a guy that used to race as a pro, he was really helpful as he had a huge fleet of bikes for us to look at and measure, he pretty much gave us free roam of the shop and his tools.

Oh yeah, we did build a couple of jigs, one for the main triangle of the frame, and another for the front fork. We used 3/4" particle board and pine. After the frame was done but before we started the paint prep we took it down to Proteus and had them put it in their jig to check alignment, and they said it was perfect.
 
KLF - I'd love to see the frames if you can post up pics
 
Frames by Klien and Cannondale are all robo-welded for consistency.
In the beginning for both manufacturers they were hand welded. Coincidently that is also when I was buying custom racing frames from them. They both went to robot welders because they are cheaper per joint and much more consistent.

Klein is the one who first figured out how to make a large tube aluminum frames. Cannondale perfected and mass produced them. It is interesting, the Cannondale AL touring frame I had was much much stiffer than the Klein racing frames I had which were significantly stiffer than the chrome molly frames of their era. The Cannondale racing frames I got to replace the Kleins were even stiffer than the touring frame I had.

This was back in '82 to '85 time frame.
 
In the beginning for both manufacturers they were hand welded. Coincidently that is also when I was buying custom racing frames from them. They both went to robot welders because they are cheaper per joint and much more consistent.

Klein is the one who first figured out how to make a large tube aluminum frames. Cannondale perfected and mass produced them. It is interesting, the Cannondale AL touring frame I had was much much stiffer than the Klein racing frames I had which were significantly stiffer than the chrome molly frames of their era. The Cannondale racing frames I got to replace the Kleins were even stiffer than the touring frame I had.

This was back in '82 to '85 time frame.

Is this when you had the biggest quads in the world?
 
Actually, if I were to make my own bike frame, I'd probably try something like a partial/full recumbent.

Be sure to grow a full beard before riding it. Recumbent bikes are the recumbent bikes of dorkdom. You have to be a dork's dork to ride one.
 
Is this when you had the biggest quads in the world?

Watch it Skiltator, or Thighmaster will come up to Castle Grayskull and weasel squeeze you.
 

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