Another newbie in need of advice

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by motomike, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. motomike

    motomike

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    Sorry for the long post, but I figured I would get it all out there in one shot.

    I’ve been sorting the kinks out of my first Land Cruiser this past week (100% stock 87 FJ60). I’ve put about 600 miles on her in the past few days trying to get a feel for what she can do and all the idiosyncrasies that come along with an aging truck.

    So far…..

    The Good:

    1. One owner vehicle with extensive service records including mileage and dates of service
    2. Immaculate shape inside and out(except for two small rust areas on the fenders)
    3. Decent gas mileage…..14 city, and 17 hwy.
    5. A/C that blows icicles!!!....but makes then engine get a little hot sometimes.

    The Bad:

    1. Rough idle……idles really low and pulsates between approx 300 – 700 rpm. This really isn’t a problem until the truck heats up and when the A/C is on.
    2. Over heating: Temp gage marches toward the red zone when I drive continuously above 65mph, or load the engine heavily (floored going up hill) On the road today the gage ranged from below half way point to just below red zone while driving between 60-65mph without the a/c on. Also tends to get into the red while parked with the a/c on. Any ideas what could be causing this? Should I be concerned as long as the needle is in the white zone?
    3. A touch of body rust (a fact of life with cruisers I understand) on the fenders under the paint . The truck has the original paint that is in excellent condition so I hate to mar it up with primer, but I don’t want to lose the body in a few years to rust either. Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated
    4. No cruise control!!! I plan to do a lot of traveling in this truck and a cruise would sure come in handy. Was cruise and option in 87? Are there aftermarket solutions?
    5. Engine Stumble. While driving at steady speed the truck wants to sometimes take off like it had a turbo then suddenly slow back down, or stumble severely and then regain composure.. It was pretty bad the first 200 miles and almost completely died getting on the freeway. It is almost like it is running out of fuel at times while others it feels like its being shot out of a canon. I want to think she’s got some hidden power in there that is wanting to get out…..any ideas(I’m planning a tune up asap)
    6. Redline too low. When she hits her stride the truck can easily do 80 but I’m scared to push the revs……not to mention the heating problem already mentioned. What is a safe operating range on these trucks? I’ve already suffered a blown head gasket on my Toyota pickup so I’m a little paranoid to push it.
    7. The front end is in need of an overhaul…inner axel seals…etc……yikes!!! (how long can i wait to dive into that nightmare without doing damage to my rig?)


    The Weird:

    1. The cabin fan door makes a flapping sound when you close the truck door and the windows rolled up. I’m guessing that the air pressure increase caused by closing the vehicle door is causing the fan door?? to flop. Anyone ever had this happen? If the fan is on when the doors are being shut the noise does not occur. Nor does it occur if I crack the window prior to closing the door. From sticking my head under the dash on the passenger side the best I could tell it was coming from the fan housing.

    Thanks in advance for your responses. This is a great forum and I’m excited to be member. Being a newbie I’m sure I’ll have tons more questions in the near future.
     
  2. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    Welcome!

    There are a bunch of posts in the FAQ that will give you the accumulated advice from the board regarding how to deal with a "new to you" truck. Simply put, replace all fluids, and do a thorough tune-up. Both the rough idle and engine stumble are likely do to poor tune-up, or related. You don't mention miles, but you might need the carb rebuilt. It's inevitable in a higher milage truck. FJ40Jim is the guy - he's on this board. People swear by the results they get from his rebuilds.
    Overheating could be a clogged rad, or a wasted fan clutch, or both. Given that you have probs at both high and low speed, you may have both issues.
    Re the redline - it is what it is. Again search will give you the variety of opinions, but I think it's fair to summarize that 3000 is the highest steady state you should use. HP peak is 3600 rpm, so it was designed to go that high, but not often. It's a tractor motor, not a revving motor.
    On your front end - post up some pics, and we can give better advice.

    Complete records is cool - and unusual. Very cool. Get a FSM, so you can get familier with your cruiser.
     
  3. Exiled

    Exiled

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    Welcome!

    There was never OEM Cruise Control on any 60 series, but it was a common dealer-installed option, especially on the later years. Mine never had it but from what I've seen, the reliability of the aftermarket cruise controls on Land Cruisers is so-so at best. There's a very reputable Aussie company that makes a high-end cruise control for Land Cruisers, but they're very expensive.

    On the body rust. From the picture, the truck looks very clean, but if you have rust, *take care of it now*, don't wait or it will be cost a lot more later. Visible rust usually means more rust underneath, it's almost always more rust than you thought it was.

    On the overheating, I'd start with the usual suspects, do a cooling system flush, change the thermostat (be careful with the bolts on the thermostat housing, they're easy to strip), get the radiator checked. Land Cruisers in good mechanical condition actually run cool. Could also be the fan clutch as was pointed out, those are cheap but a PITA to replace.

    Front axle isn't a nightmare, it's actually a fairly easy process and there's a LOT of good information available online, including detailed pictures of every step of the process. It's just *messy*, and the first time you do it it takes a LONG time.

    The advice you got about an FSM is the *best* advice you will get, Land Cruisers were designed to be serviced under less-than-optimal conditions and as a result, manuals are detailed, straightforward and easy to understand. Besides, you have a HUGE support network right here!

    Congratulations on what appears to be a solid Cruiser, and welcome again to the forums. Make sure you get a TLCA membership, it's one of the best resources out there for Land Cruiser owners and just the six issues of Toyota Trails are worth the annual membership. On top of that, you get tapped into a network of Cruiser owners across the globe, and even get discounts from member businesses. More info at www.tlca.org

    Cheers!

    Exiled
     
  4. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew On the way there SILVER Star

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    I don't think I've ever heard of a high mileage FJ60 without cooling problems. Replace the radiator, fan clutch and thermostat as soon as possible. Don't think, or try to diagnose, just do it, soon.

    Baseline all the fluids tomorrow. Don't forget the master cylinder for the brakes and clutch.

    Adjust the valves. It's often neglected but it helps.

    Rebuild the knuckles soon. It isn't urget, but they need attention. It isn't that difficult.

    Look for an overfilled tranny. If present, the seal between the tranny and transfer case is failing. You can fix this with the kit from MAF until you have the nerve to tackle a trasfercase rebuild. If you don't address it in some fashion, the transfer case will pump all of it's oil into the transmission and fry the transfer output bearings. In my small experience this problem is almost universal in FJ 60s. Even my FJ40 had this problem when I got it.

    Squirt some grease in your u-joints and driveshaft splines.

    You probably do need a carb rebuild. Jim C (FJ40Jim) does great work from personal experience. I would guess that Mark Algazy at Mark's Offroad does too.

    Don't go above 3000 RPM. OK, Maybe 3200 for short bursts. Personally, I never exceed the magic 3K.

    Enjoy-It's one of the few classics you can daily drive.
     
  5. motomike

    motomike

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    Sorry I forgot to list the milage....it has 179K and is treaded with 30x9.5in tires.

    I'm planning a tune up in the morning with the following:

    1. plugs & wires (OEM)
    2. thermostat (OEM)
    3. distributor cap & rotor (OEM)
    4. pcv (OEM)
    5. oil change (penzoil 10/30...same oil truck has had since birth as per PO)
    6. fuel filter
    7. air filter
    8. anything else i should include here?

    I ordered an FSM and it should be in by the middle of next week.

    I'll get some pics of the rust and the front end tomorrow and post them to show the current state of the knuckles.

    I read a thread about "burping" the cooling system. Should I be concerned with this after flushing the block and rodding out the radiator?

    One last thing. If one didn't know better, by just by listening to the truck idle one would think its a desiel from the sound. Is this the normal 'hum' of a 2F motor or should I be concerned. I can definately hear some valve chatter when I lift the hood and a prominant clicking sound (more valve chatter???) that varies in proportion to rpm while driving. Is a valve job doable by rookie in possesion of an FSM or should that be left to the pros?

    Thanks again for all the help and advice.

    Mike
     
  6. Tinker

    Tinker

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    Before you take pix of the vacuum line mess & pull the carb for JimC to rebuild, squirt carb cleaner around the base of the carb & then where the intake manifold bolts to the head with the engine running. If the idle picks up, you have a leak. Tighten the carb nuts (takes a special NLA Snap-On wrench to do easily) & check again. If there's a manifold-to-head leak, you have the classic "intake/exhaust" leak, which you can search this board for. Fixing it's a PITA, but just as critical as the cooling issue. And very satisfying to conquer.
     
  7. 87CRUSR

    87CRUSR SILVER Star

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    And yes...burp after the rad fuid flush/replacement. Eliminates one less thing.

    Valve noise....if it's minor after the adjustment, better loose than too tight. If noisier than the motor itself with no record of recent adustment, add it to the list.

    Welcome...NICE RIG!
     
  8. motomike

    motomike

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    I completed the tune up this morning except for replacing the pcv valve.....where is it located? I don't have my manual yet so i'm at a loss as to where to look? Also where in the fuel line would you reccomend placing the fuel filter?

    I went ahead and did a cold compression check with the following results:

    #1 107psi
    #2 110psi
    #3 105psi
    #4 106psi
    #5 105psi
    #6 109psi

    What are your thoughts on these numbers?

    The OEM plugs came with a gap size of .275.......is this the recommended gap size the 2F engine?.

    I've attached a pic of the plugs to give an idea of the condition of the system prior to the tune up. Any comments on plug conditions is appreciated. The plugs are in order from 1-6 rom left to right in the pic.

    I've also included some pics of one of the two rust spots and a close up of the knuckles for helping me determine if the knuckles should be done asap and suggestions on stopping the rust spots.

    Thanks

    Mike
    all-plugs.jpg left-knuckle.jpg right-side-rust.jpg
     
  9. hj60

    hj60

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    PCV is on passenger side of engine, near the rear, in a pipe coming out the side, with a rubber hose going to the air cleaner.
    The fuel filter should be in a bracket on the PS fenderwell, to the right of the charcoal canister. It's clear plastic if it's OEM.
    Your compression numbers are low. 114 is the factory spec'd min. Did you do the test youself? If so, did you pin the throttle open? Common mistake is to forget to do this.
    Factory plug gap is .031"
    Your plugs look ok from the pic, but my screen sucks, so I may not be seeing the whole picture.

    Search the FAQ and the archives for info on compression. Lots of advice here.
    Lots of experience.

    And if you get stuck, we're always here. Good luck.
     
  10. 74fj40

    74fj40

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    I think that your knuckles are pretty important, the kit is only like 100 bucks and well worth it
     
  11. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    The PCV valve is held in place with a rubber grommet. It gets hard and brittle over time. Not a bad idea to replace the grommet, but it's tricky to get it out w/out pieces breaking off and falling in.
     
  12. hj60

    hj60

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    Stuff a rag in the hole before trying to get the grommet out. Minimizes risk of debris falling in.
     
  13. freebornred

    freebornred

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    your knuckle seals need to be changed while your at it you might as well do a rebuild
     
  14. flowman

    flowman

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    Knuckles--they're pretty weapy--I would put that on or near the top of the list. Haven't done mine yet, but will within the year.

    Re: the rust--that's a pretty large spot, and it's only going to spread. Two options--if you're going to wheel tough trails, think about trimming the bottom 2-3 inches off the side panels and welding on some rock sliders (see Mark Woytovich's site for some idea of what I'm talking about--http://www.woytovich.com/transfer/Cut_n_cap/Cut_n_cap.html) The sliders will protect the rest of your sheet metal. Not needed if you're not going to hit the rocky trails.

    The other option is to start trimming until you get back to solid sheet matal, and then weld in a new patch. Jeff Zepp has some good pictures of this in his 40 resto (http://rzeppa.org/resto/cruiser1.htm).

    Rust sucks--don't let it go any further!
     
  15. Exiled

    Exiled

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    Yes, it's a PITA! If you're planning on adjusting the valves, then replace the PCV valve with the valve cover off.
     
  16. motomike

    motomike

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    Ok, I re-did the compression test with all plugs removed and the throttle wide open. I got all cylinders between 125-130psi.

    hj60 hd mentioned that the factory spec was 114psi......should i be concerned with the high numbers i got this morning?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
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