Another Misfire Thread - LX 470

[2001LC]

Exhaust in coolant indicates a combustion gas leak. I'd do additional testing; compression dry than wet test. Leak down test in those with weak compression. This is to help isolate to gasket, heads, cylinders, valve, etc..

Whereas the head gasket is very likely. Before pulling head, best to know if head, valves, rings, pistons and cylinders are okay. There is a case now. Where compression came in high 1cyl)~190 to 7cyl) ~205). Borescope at Dealership revealed cracked block in two cylinders. That engine, ran without coolant.
I've got one here now. Where Toyota mechanic replaced head due to a sucked valve. But they missing the rings and bore were bad. So waste of time & $ as engine is shot.

 

[JlinLX]

So I did a dry compression test today on cylinders 1, 2, 3 & 6.

Cylinder 1: 170 psi
Cylinder 2: 50 psi
Cylinder 3: 150 psi
Cylinder 6: 50 psi

As far as I can tell, all signs point to a very bad head gasket on the bank on the passenger's side and a slightly better, but still bad, gasket on the driver's side bank (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm planning on beginning the teardown tomorrow. Does anyone have a FSM for the job?

For the gasket choice, should I stick with OEM or are there any other options that I should consider?

 

[MJK]

Factory Service Manual ( FSM)

forum.ih8mud.com

FSM link^

I hope you are lucky and can simply swap out head gaskets, but you might want to check valves/pistons/cylinder walls/flatness too. At some degree of overheating, it may make sense to swap in a used one.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

So I did a dry compression test today on cylinders 1, 2, 3 & 6.

Cylinder 1: 170 psi
Cylinder 2: 50 psi
Cylinder 3: 150 psi
Cylinder 6: 50 psi

As far as I can tell, all signs point to a very bad head gasket on the bank on the passenger's side and a slightly better, but still bad, gasket on the driver's side bank (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm planning on beginning the teardown tomorrow. Does anyone have a FSM for the job?

For the gasket choice, should I stick with OEM or are there any other options that I should consider?

Really should do wet compression test, as dry is often inaccurate unless you did this with the engine warmed up to operating temp. Bank 2 is definitely toast, but I’m not convinced that Bank 1 head gasket is toast. 150 and 170 are 11.7% difference, so barely outside the minimum 10% difference, but again, that’s dry. Both are also above the minimum of 142psi for the 2uz. They may be within spec wet, which would indicate another problem.

I agree with @MJK - This may not be as simple as swapping in new head gaskets. At minimum, need to check valves, pistons, cylinder walls, rings, and have the head checked for cracks/warpage and machined. I very strongly recommend talking with Paul @2001LC before you start any tear down.

 

[MJK]

I very strongly recommend talking with Paul @2001LC before you start any tear down.

This is a very solid advice. I'm a staunch DIYer, and in your shoes there is no question I would do the same.

 

[2001LC]

"When" compression test must be done with cold engine, in a non running engine. I see ~150PSI. PSI variation between cylinders, is often less with a cold engine than with same engine hot. It's important even in cold engine, to disconnect the fuel pumps power and open throttle body wide. Than crank with a fully charged battery.

If fluid is in a cylinder like fuel, oil or coolant the reading go higher. I got 170 PSI in a cold engine, that was extremely flooded with fuel. Two hours later the same was 150 PSI, as fuel leaked into crankcase pass the rings and evaporated.

To be clear:
BK1 has cylinders 1, 3, 5 & 7
BK2 has cylinders 2, 4, 6 & 8.

Use borescope to very carefully check cylinders. You should see crosshatch marks very clearly 360 degrees top to bottom.

Head gasket is a very big job. Which includes timing belt job, as it must come off. Head bolts are best replaced, and must be replace if out of spec. Only parts I'd use are OEM bolts & gaskets and Aisin timing belt kit.

 

[ramangain]

Better call Saul, er, Paul (couldn't resist!)

 

[JlinLX]

"When" compression test must be done with cold engine, in a non running engine. I see ~150PSI. PSI variation between cylinders, is often less with a cold engine than with same engine hot. It's important even in cold engine, to disconnect the fuel pumps power and open throttle body wide. Than crank with a fully charged battery.

If fluid is in a cylinder like fuel, oil or coolant the reading go higher. I got 170 PSI in a cold engine, that was extremely flooded with fuel. Two hours later the same was 150 PSI, as fuel leaked into crankcase pass the rings and evaporated.

To be clear:
BK1 has cylinders 1, 3, 5 & 7
BK2 has cylinders 2, 4, 6 & 8.

Use borescope to very carefully check cylinders. You should see crosshatch marks very clearly 360 degrees top to bottom.

Head gasket is a very big job. Which includes timing belt job, as it must come off. Head bolts are best replaced, and must be replace if out of spec. Only parts I'd use are OEM bolts & gaskets and Aisin timing belt kit.

Well you were certainly correct to suggest using a borescope first.

I assumed that if I was going to have catastrophic problems, they would be head/valve related.
I ended up removing the head on cylinder bank 2 only to discover that the head and valves appeared to be in relatively good condition, however when I cleaned the water out of the cylinders I found some VERY deep scratches in the wall of cylinder 4.

So it looks like I'm in the market for a new-to-me engine. I found a same year Tundra engine locally that I'm considering so hopefully it works out.

I'll post updates as I continue. Thanks for everyone's help so far!

Here is the carnage:

Here is bank 2. Cylinder 8 looked pristine, a stark contrast to cylinders 2 and 4

And a closeup of cylinder 4.

 

[ramangain]

Honestly?

You should get a copy of the service history from the Lexus dealer. If the records show this issue, and the seller didn't disclose, he/she may be on the hook. This is a big deal

 

[JlinLX]

Honestly?

You should get a copy of the service history from the Lexus dealer. If the records show this issue, and the seller didn't disclose, he/she may be on the hook. This is a big deal

I pulled the service records and there was no mention of any issue.
I'm assuming that the previous owner didn't notice their coolant leak, overheated the engine, warped the head/gasket seal, and that the water in the cylinders caused the scratching.

Unfortunately this is just one of the risks of buying poorly-running cars in as-is condition. Sometimes the gamble pays off, sometimes you need a new engine.

 

[ramangain]

Sorry to hear that.

Maybe someone on MUD has an engine they can send you for cheap? I think the forum, in general, tries to help out like this when it is warranted and for a good cause.

 

[2001LC]

Well you were certainly correct to suggest using a borescope first.

I assumed that if I was going to have catastrophic problems, they would be head/valve related.
I ended up removing the head on cylinder bank 2 only to discover that the head and valves appeared to be in relatively good condition, however when I cleaned the water out of the cylinders I found some VERY deep scratches in the wall of cylinder 4.

So it looks like I'm in the market for a new-to-me engine. I found a same year Tundra engine locally that I'm considering so hopefully it works out.

I'll post updates as I continue. Thanks for everyone's help so far!

Here is the carnage:

View attachment 2468552
Here is bank 2. Cylinder 8 looked pristine, a stark contrast to cylinders 2 and 4
View attachment 2468554
And a closeup of cylinder 4.

Any 4.7L none VVt will work. If not a 100 series will take a more labor to swap parts. But we've many reports of the USA made engines, having piston slap. Also reports of busted connecting rods on USA made vs Japanese.

Difficult parts is finding a good engine. If hood not inplace or engine allowed to set exposed to weather, even covered with a tarp. They can get water into the intake ports and cylinders. Rule of thumb, if engine sets 2 weeks or longer with water in those places, it will likely be a smoker with 20k to 40K miles.

So here again a scope is needed. Scope the cylinders for and water or scoring. Don't buy one the intake manifold has been removed. Why, dirty falls into intake ports if care not take before pulling intake.

Run a carfax and check Toyota/lexus history.

Ask others here that took first engine that was"good deal", I for one. My first was a "great deal" to my door. But engine had water in it's heads. Likely sat outside or washed. When I looked at it was indoors and looked very good, on the outside. Frankly, I bought so cheap, I did not care. But it, ended needing to be rebuilt, not a drop in. So it just took up room in my shop. Most every seller of engines, I found. Did not represent the engine fairly.

The time you take assuring you found a good engine today, will pay off.

 

[MJK]

Well, that stinks but cheers to you for the positive outlook. Best of luck getting her up and running.

Should be a reasonably fun adventure to make her perfect again if you have the time and are so inclined.

 

[JlinLX]

There's no turning back now! Unforturnatley I'm going to have to do a bit more shopping before I buy an engine. They few that I've looked into locally have been less than ideal. Hopefully something pops up in the next month or so.

Note the transmission cooler line complete with the classic "old toothbrush" plug

 

[ramangain]

It's as if your truck just gave birth to a really ugly, dead baby

 

[MJK]

Just out of curiosity, how to these compare to what you have seen locally?

2000-2005 Toyota Land Cruiser Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2000-2005 Toyota Land Cruiser Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

00 01 02 03 04 05 Lexus LX470 Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 00 01 02 03 04 05 Lexus LX470 Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I've also had good luck with LKQ

 

[JlinLX]

Just out of curiosity, how to these compare to what you have seen locally?

2000-2005 Toyota Land Cruiser Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2000-2005 Toyota Land Cruiser Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

00 01 02 03 04 05 Lexus LX470 Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 00 01 02 03 04 05 Lexus LX470 Engine Assembly 4.7L VIN T 5th Digit 2UZFE OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I've also had good luck with LKQ

I haven't been able to find any LX or LC spec engines locally, I've mostly been looking at 4Runner, Tundra, and Sequoia 2UZ-FEs. As far a price goes, they range from about $700 to $1600 with varying core charges. The issue is usually that they've either been removed from the vehicles and washed (with a good chance of having rust in the cylinders) or they've been left in vehicles with no hoods, sitting exposed to the elements for long periods of time.

The ebay engines may be in great shape, unfortunately engine sellers are notoriously shady. Without being able to scope the cylinders and test compression there is no way to know what you're getting. Some of them offer warranties, but once you factor in shipping and install time, even with a complete refund, you'd still lose quite a bit of money.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

I haven't been able to find any LX or LC spec engines locally, I've mostly been looking at 4Runner, Tundra, and Sequoia 2UZ-FEs. As far a price goes, they range from about $700 to $1600 with varying core charges. The issue is usually that they've either been removed from the vehicles and washed (with a good chance of having rust in the cylinders) or they've been left in vehicles with no hoods, sitting exposed to the elements for long periods of time.

The ebay engines may be in great shape, unfortunately engine sellers are notoriously shady. Without being able to scope the cylinders and test compression there is no way to know what you're getting. Some of them offer warranties, but once you factor in shipping and install time, even with a complete refund, you'd still lose quite a bit of money.

Have you searched car-part.com? I just looked here locally in Phoenix and there are 7 LC/LX Jap-origin 4.7s with <200k miles.

 

[JlinLX]

Engine acquired!

I found a recently-totalled, low-mile 2001 tundra engine at a local salvage yard.

The purchase was a bit of a gamble as the yard is currently closed to the public and I had to buy sight-unseen. Fortunately the carfax, auction history, warranty, and info from the salvage yard all checked out. The engine was removed the day that I picked it up (no snow/rain damage) and upon initial inspection with my cheap borescope, the cylinders seemed to be in good condition. It also appeared to be unwashed and had the intake manifold attached, which I was quite happy about.

Picking up from the yard:

I got it mounted up to a stand and drained the residual oil out of both engines.

Chocolate milkshake from the overheated engine vs. clean oil from the replacement:

I went ahead and replaced the timing belt, water pump, idlers, and tensioner on the new engine.
All the old parts looked relatively new but its so easy with the engine out.

And removed the oil pan and pick-up tube from the old engine for cleaning.

Now I just have to wait for a few gaskets to arrive to finish swapping the parts.

 

[JlinLX]

Swap complete!

After many, many hours of work the new engine is in the truck and running.

The initial startup was a bit smoky but after a couple minutes everything burned off. So far, I haven't been able to find any leaks, I'm hoping it stays that way.

It was quite a struggle with a standard hoist but eventually I was able to get everything seated properly

Finally running!

I wanted to say thank you to everyone for all the diagnostic help.

Now I'll have to troubleshoot the AHC.