Another Front End Noise Diagnosis Thread..... (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Threads
5
Messages
74
Location
Texas
So I need a little help from those that know more than me about land cruisers... My cruiser is a 1994 80 series with 126,000 miles on it. I have a slight front end moan that has been happening for about the last 1,500 or so miles. It’s not super noticeable to anyone but me, but I can hear it slightly and it’s more of a vibration coming through the steering wheel and through the driver side floorboard (my feet can feel it). It’s not like a “I’m going to be calling AAA any minute on the side of the road” noise; more like a nuisance and a long term reliability concern.

Here’s the fact pattern regarding this noise:

1. Front drive shaft was replaced with a brand new one just a week or two ago. Rear U joints were also replaced.
2. Front Wheel bearings and spindles were replaced over the weekend. I used new 95-97 style OEM Toyota spindles with the needle bearings instead of the brass bushing. Used new Koyo wheel bearings and Mobil 1 red synthetic grease. None of this changed the noise.
3. Did a full front Knuckle rebuild in December. Prior owner (friend of mine with no business owning an old vehicle) I suspect drove it for 30-50,000 miles with the inner axle seals blown out. Birfields looked fine and didn’t make any clicking noise, but all the grease had migrated to the differential and was a nasty sludge.
4. I did not notice the aforementioned noise until AFTER I rebuilt the front axle and did several drain and fills to flush out the migrated grease. This was also when the u-joints were going south so at the time I figured that was the noise.
5. Pulled the new front drive shaft and locked the transfer case (triple locked cruiser) and went for a drive. If anything the noise seemed louder without the front shaft.
6. Noise seems load dependent. It occurs at a lower speed if I am driving into a head wind (50 mph) than if I am driving with a tail wind (65-70 mph).
7. Noise is most noticeable on deceleration from high speed. Not throttle dependent. Makes less noise on acceleration than deceleration.
8. There is no leaking from front diff input shaft at all, and it seems tight .
9. The noise was also present while coasting down hill with both the transfer case and the transmission in neutral.

I just bought this thing in October, and it’s in pretty good shape now thanks to the wealth of information this forum has provided. I am trying to diagnose this noise pretty aggressively because I would like to drive it from Texas to California and back at the end of June and I want to make sure it’s nothing critical.

Is this just part of the territory with a full time 4wd vehicle or do I have a diff problem that needs to be taken care of ASAP? Thanks for all the assistance!! This forum is an incredible resource.
 
Last edited:
What type of tires are you running and what size, condition? Any lift?
 
What type of tires are you running and what size, condition? Any lift?
285 75 R16 BF Goodrich KO2’s and a 2.5” OME lift. They are practically new with 7,000 miles on them.
 
Last edited:
Did the new tires coincide with the start of symptoms? What type of gear oil are you using? With the driveshaft disconnected and the issue more pronounced I don't think it would be the ring and pinion. Otherwise I can't think of anything else.
 
Did the new tires coincide with the start of symptoms? What type of gear oil are you using? With the driveshaft disconnected and the issue more pronounced I don't think it would be the ring and pinion. Otherwise I can't think of anything else.

No I had new tires for several months before this started. Like I said the noise started when I flushed out the grease from the front diff... I am using Castrol 80W90 gear oil.
 
Was the noise present before or after any of the specific pieces changed or rebuilt?

You've changed a lot of stuff recently so lots of possibilities.
 
No I had new tires for several months before this started. Like I said the noise started when I flushed out the grease from the front diff... I am using Castrol 80W90 gear oil.
Possibly dry spindle bearings.
 
Despite being new, are your wheel bearings tight. I've had a vibration I could feel in the floor board. I could feel it more if my foot was closer to my seat, less noticeable if I moved my foot towards the pedals. It was a loose wheel bearing...
 
Despite being new, are your wheel bearings tight. I've had a vibration I could feel in the floor board. I could feel it more if my foot was closer to my seat, less noticeable if I moved my foot towards the pedals. It was a loose wheel bearing...

I followed the FSM procedure... after torquing to 45 ft lbs, rotating the hub and loosening several times, I did the final torque on the inner nut to about 60 inch lbs. That set my pre-load at about 5 lbs, then I installed the lock washer, added the locking nut to 45 ft lbs, then bent the tabs. Maybe it is indeed too loose?
 
I followed the FSM procedure... after torquing to 45 ft lbs, rotating the hub and loosening several times, I did the final torque on the inner nut to about 60 inch lbs. That set my pre-load at about 5 lbs, then I installed the lock washer, added the locking nut to 45 ft lbs, then bent the tabs. Maybe it is indeed too loose?


Yes. This is a well-known problem in the FSM.

Most follow the procedure but modify to torque the inner nut to 35 LB-FT for the final, then the outer to 45 LB-FT.

I follow everything to the letter when I can and I had the same issue. I have settled on the 35 / 45 LB-FT for my truck.
 
Ok here is my questions what universals where used, did you use OEM, Matsuba the non OEM suck, is your slip joint over filled with grease ( yes it can be over filled ) putting a load on the Uni's and make noise . Oh yeah the grease pushed into the pumpkin is water there is no way grease will migrate into pumpkins from outer wheel bearings and Birf's
 
Ok here is my questions what universals where used, did you use OEM, Matsuba the non OEM suck, is your slip joint over filled with grease ( yes it can be over filled ) putting a load on the Uni's and make noise . Oh yeah the grease pushed into the pumpkin is water there is no way grease will migrate into pumpkins from outer wheel bearings and Birf's
All u-joints, and other parts too, are Toyota OEM. No, you can still compress the shaft by hand... def. not overgreased. And if the inner axle seal is totally destroyed, yes axle grease certainly will migrate into the diff. It was definitely not water.
 
Ok here is my questions what universals where used, did you use OEM, Matsuba the non OEM suck, is your slip joint over filled with grease ( yes it can be over filled ) putting a load on the Uni's and make noise . Oh yeah the grease pushed into the pumpkin is water there is no way grease will migrate into pumpkins from outer wheel bearings and Birf's
Yes, the grease CAN migrate from Birfs to pumpkin. If the vent is clogged, go on a long drive, things heat up, it pushes gear oil.into the Birfs. As it cools, it sucks grease and oil back from the Birfs to make a moly soup in the diff and Birf soup in the knuckles. BTDT.
 
Yes, the grease CAN migrate from Birfs to pumpkin. If the vent is clogged, go on a long drive, things heat up, it pushes gear oil.into the Birfs. As it cools, it sucks grease and oil back from the Birfs to make a moly soup in the diff and Birf soup in the knuckles. BTDT.

Ok, I think there is no way, the grease can by it's self , unless the inner seal has died and oil has mixed with the grease for quite a while and then, went into the pumpkin, that is the only way .
 
'Noise is most noticeable on deceleration from high speed. Not throttle dependent. Makes less noise on acceleration than deceleration'

Does your 80 Have a lift kit? Mine did the exact same thing your describing after I installed a 2.5 inch lift kit. What I didn't do immediately at the time of the lift kit was install the supplied caster bushings. Once the bushings were installed in the control arms the vibration and noise went away. Was anything moved or disturbed in that area?

My .02 cents

CB
 
Ok, I think there is no way, the grease can by it's self , unless the inner seal has died and oil has mixed with the grease for quite a while and then, went into the pumpkin, that is the only way .


OK, YES, it can.

Detail:
I rebuilt the front axle with all Toyota seals, Kits from Cruiser Parts. I was meticulous about cleaning, aligning, fish-scaling everything. This is NOT my first rodeo, as I have been wrenching for 45 years. Grew up on a farm, rebuilt my first engine at 10YO. I built a 4WD Chevy for a 4-H project, so I know what to do.

Rebuilt everything, new bearings, new seals, new rotors, new axles (RCV), new brakes, new calipers. Lubed all parts before assembly. Used a torque wrench on EVERYTHING. Moly in the knuckles, Red-N-Tacky on wheel bearings 85-90 in diff.

Started DD the truck and within 5000 miles, I had Birf Soup on the RF knuckle. Everything was new, so it wasn't a matter of whether the seal was aligned in a groove. I had no trouble stabbing the axles, so I had no concerns with the inner seals from an assembly standpoint. Folks here advised to stay away from Marlin seal for a DD and I did. Only Toyota seals in there.

I checked out the axle vent housing and it was pretty cruddy, so I took it off and cleaned it. I removed the hose and it was clogged. I removed the fitting from the axle housing and I had to use a dental pick to remove the solidified gear oil and grime from the PO. Then I reinstalled the fitting, added about 5 ft of 1/4" fuel hose and a fuel filter as a vent and draped it up over the brake booster.

I sucked out the birf soup from the knuckle, and changed the differential oil.

The problem has gone away and never returned in 65K miles.

With the axle vent clogged: On a long drive, the axle housing would heat up and pressurize. The pressure would force the gear oil past the seal , into the Birf. As it cooled, the housing would go to a vacuum and suck the gear oil/grease mixture back into the housing creating Birf soup in both the knuckle and the differential.

Since I cleaned the fitting and installed the long vent hose and fuel filter for the vent, I have not had Birf soup again in 65K miles. I have never opened up the knuckles again.

So, yes, it CAN, and will happen if the conditions are right.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom