Another Comparison vid 12/20/20 - LC, Nissan,LR
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bloc
SILVER Star
They’ve been doing the same thing and glossing over that critical detail for years.
Exactly. A very popular Bike website (pinkbike.com) started using the same tires on all the bikes in a comparison test group for this very reason. It'd make sense for some head to head automotive tests to to the same, at least when talking about off-road prowess.
Uh, the Defender is garbage with another CEL. For those that follow, this would be the 3rd Defender they tried to take delivery of brand new. With first having a unfixable engine issue. Second, dealer factory winch install calamities with a cut main harness. And this 3rd clean sheet Defender already throwing nuisance CELs? And this is with TFL getting special treatment as a major reviewer.
It’s pathetic
greynolds
SILVER Star
In fairness to them, they’ve been making it clear that the Defender delivery has been a train wreck.
As far as tires go, I’d like to see both types of reviews. One to show how they perform as delivered from the factory and another to show how they perform with appropriate, capable, tires on each. Ideally the same tire model and as close as possible to stock size. It would also be nice to see a 3rd option with larger and more capable tires.
As far as tires go, I’d like to see both types of reviews. One to show how they perform as delivered from the factory and another to show how they perform with appropriate, capable, tires on each. Ideally the same tire model and as close as possible to stock size. It would also be nice to see a 3rd option with larger and more capable tires.
I've been following the channel and they do a good job keeping transparency of their incidents.
Anecdotal but the other brand that has had several on camera unforced errors is Ford. Several check engine lights and a total loss of coolant stranding.
Toyota's have been unremarkable in this regard. Just how we like it. But they sure could raise the excitement bar a bit. Hopefully with new releases next year, they'll do that.
I found it odd they lumped the Nissan in the same category as the Defender and the 200. I for one would not cross-shop the Nissan in this segment. I know they made comparisons to the overseas unit but for me, not the same kind of vehicle as the Defender or the 200. My brother-in-law rented the new Nissan when he was visiting with his family last week. So we had a chance to compare them side by side and drive both in inclement Idaho/Wyoming weather. Granted our 200 has dedicated snow tires, the Nissan was not confidence inspiring.
greynolds
SILVER Star
Agreed. I think they've been doing a pretty good job in that regard. I've heard them say that the LC is the most reliable, best built, vehicle on the planet a number of times now.
The issues with the Defender have gotten to the point that they're making pretty much non-stop jokes about having to expect problems after a few hundred miles. It's a real shame with Land Rover. If they could get their act together on quality control, their vehicles are otherwise pretty darn nice. As they mentioned in this video, the feel of the interior materials is really nice and the overall design of the interior is pretty well done. But if the thing is literally undriveable after a few hundred miles, the rest just doesn't matter. I had a brand new (custom ordered) 2014 Range Rover for about 6 months. When it was working, it was really nice, but it spent too much time in the shop and had at least 1 ridiculous feature that could leave you stranded out in the middle of nowhere. The rotary shift knob was motorized and went down flush with the console when you shut the car off. I had several cases where it didn't pop back up when the car was started, which meant you couldn't shift out of park. As much as I liked it overall, I just didn't feel like I could trust it for anything resembling a long trip or to go anywhere without good cell service, so I traded it in and it's most likely my last Land Rover product unless I see solid evidence that they've finally figured out what quality control is. Fortunately, demand for new Range Rovers was completely insane at that time, so I broke even trading it in.
greynolds
SILVER Star
But that's the thing - comparing stock tires to dedicated snow tires just isn't a fair comparison.
My dad and I rented an Armada on a trip to Glacier National Park a few years ago (way back when vacations were still a thing...) and we both were really impressed with it overall. It was very comfortable for long driving days, handled pretty well for what it is (our LC's don't exactly handle like sports cars either
), had plenty of horsepower, and had tons of cargo space. The one big negative with it was the infotainment system, which was complete crap. It looks like they've addressed most of the weaknesses with the infotainment system, even if the built in navigation and other features are still only mediocre, by adding CarPlay and Android Auto support. That leapfrogs them over the 200 series in that regard (because, let's face it - the infotainment system in our 200's is not even close to the best on the market). The main negatives to the Armada compared to the 200 series are reliability (it's next to impossible to top the LC) and ruggedness (I've been told that the Armada has a weaker rear axle / suspension setup than the ROW Patrol has). But the Armada is also priced a lot more reasonably than the LC, which makes it a bit easier to forgive a few faults.They pretty much said that they included the Aramada in the comparison because they have it on loan only for a short time, so it made sense to bring it along.
When I bought my 2020 LC this past summer (to switch from a 2017 Mercedes G63), I actually did take a somewhat serious look at the Armada / QX80 as they offer quite a bit for the money. I didn't test drive them though because I had driven a recent model year Armada extensively on the trip I mentioned above and I decided that Nissan's financial issues weren't something I wanted to take a chance on.
I liken the Armada more to the Sequoia at least in the states. Bigger and rear IFS. Both too big in my mind for many trails and tracks. The 200-series is big too but more manageable.
IFS does have some compelling advantages for clearance, particularly with smaller factory tire sizes as it makes for much more clearance compared to a solid rear axle. There's been a number of Aussie comparos where the Patrol can take harder lines as it just has more clearance. But we know the cruiser is more durable, along with the solid rear, and when fitted with good sized tires, addresses the solid rear axle clearance limitations. Which is why I really lean towards bigger tire rather than bigger suspension lifts as it's the only way to really get more clearance under the rear axle.
Here's some interesting comparison vids
IFS does have some compelling advantages for clearance, particularly with smaller factory tire sizes as it makes for much more clearance compared to a solid rear axle. There's been a number of Aussie comparos where the Patrol can take harder lines as it just has more clearance. But we know the cruiser is more durable, along with the solid rear, and when fitted with good sized tires, addresses the solid rear axle clearance limitations. Which is why I really lean towards bigger tire rather than bigger suspension lifts as it's the only way to really get more clearance under the rear axle.
Here's some interesting comparison vids
We entertained buying the Defender for a little while but that was short lived after lurking on a few owners groups of for the brand. I saw one in person and was really impressed with everything about it while it sat static, I would not feel confident spending a week or more in BLM land while pulling our camper with our kids in the back seat. Mechanical failures can happen to any vehicle but from what I can glean from this forum that don’t make the top 10 list of things to be concerned about when you’re driving your LC far off the beaten path.... as long as you can carry enough fuel.
+1. I was all about the Defender as my "next" vehicle before I purchased my LC. Thank goodness I was not willing to pay sticker (actually over sticker) to get one. I consider myself to have dodged a bullet. I am now happily modding my LC without a care for $s spent as I know the car will last and I will get full use and enjoyment out of the work I'm doing. What really impressed me are the vids out there showing what a stock LC can do. In 2012 I bought a JKU and went to town, but once I was done after a year or so, it was not a practical daily driver so I sold it. Got my money back, but didn't spend enough time enjoying it. Looking forward to the enjoyment phase with the LC.
greynolds
SILVER Star
The problem with Land Rover is that you pretty much have to EXPECT them to break. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when and how often. Even when it's stuff that won't leave you stranded, it takes a lot away from that whole joy of ownership thing. You can see in the TFL videos that they're thrilled if the Land Rover starts without any faults showing on the display at this point. One of the comments under the video was jokingly saying that a warning light came on on the Land Cruiser saying the Land Rover was broken. I think that sums things up pretty well.
This. Hilarious!
I’m very interested to see what Doug Demuro’s experience is with his Defender and he acknowledged TFL’s problems with theirs. I think if you bought a model they’ve been producing for at least a few years it wouldn’t be that far off typical Euro luxury reliability.
The Nissan to Infiniti price difference with $20,000 between base to base and $10,000 loaded Nissan to base Infiniti, which is probably what keeps the Nissan in the market while the Land Cruiser is on its way out.
An employee of mine sold Toyota’s during the end of the 100 series run, he said they had a great lease program back then. Not that a lease would save a $90,000 Toyota but its cheaper to lease an LX and that’s a problem.
The Nissan to Infiniti price difference with $20,000 between base to base and $10,000 loaded Nissan to base Infiniti, which is probably what keeps the Nissan in the market while the Land Cruiser is on its way out.
An employee of mine sold Toyota’s during the end of the 100 series run, he said they had a great lease program back then. Not that a lease would save a $90,000 Toyota but its cheaper to lease an LX and that’s a problem.
Another piece of crap produced by the British. Back in the early 2000’s I bought a 1996 Range Rover 4.6 HSE. Electrical nightmare, I would ride down the road and the brake light bulb would blow for no reason (brakes not being used at the time). Now here comes the stupidest thing on earth, parked the car at the restaurant on date night, girl goes to use the vanity mirror and the light goes out. Next I get a message on the dash that says transmission disabled see dealer. Yes that right, the same fuse that controls the light on the vanity mirror controls the transmission!!! Oh almost forgot the blend motors on the heat and a/c went out as well, passenger side stuck on a/c year round. And people ask me why I didn’t buy a McClaren, lol.
I’m so disappointed with what LR did to the defender. Mid 90’s defender was/is a bucket list car. Halo truck. Had posters of it on my wall in highschool. LR needs to take a page out of Mercedes Benz playbook. Keep the lines the same, modernize the interior, and sell the fire out of them. Instead they turn it into a cute yute.
The defender was always the bush truck that legitimized the badge for the rest of the vehicles. No more.
The defender was always the bush truck that legitimized the badge for the rest of the vehicles. No more.
Gerry McGovern who designs these cars has been crystal clear that style and appearance is priority #1 over capability. So there’s really no surprise at the direction they have taken the Doscovery and Defender. It’s a shame.
