Another A/C question?

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As you may know, my compressor shot its load a few weeks back. Ihad already converted to 134 from r12. I just won a used compressor off ebay that was NOT converted to 134. My question is. Should I put 'freeze 12' in this system after the 134 is vacummed out or should I just convert this compressor to 134 as well?
 
Personally I would not even bother with a used compressor. A/C systems do not like to be exposed to the air for long periods of time and a used compressor likely is not sealed off or charged with nitrogen to preserve it.
Buy a new compressor and run 134A and be done with it.
 
I bought a used compressor (my system had never been converted though) and am running Freeze 12. It works perfectly and is cold as s***. I am not sure what you need to do the retro-retrofit to go back to R12.

You can put Freeze 12 in an R12 system without any changes. 134A is probably a much different story.

Just my .02
 
cruiser_guy said:
Personally I would not even bother with a used compressor. A/C systems do not like to be exposed to the air for long periods of time and a used compressor likely is not sealed off or charged with nitrogen to preserve it.
Buy a new compressor and run 134A and be done with it.

Used compressor off ebay-- 31 dollars
New compressor from SOR-- 400 dollars
ih8mud.com--- PRICELESS
 
I got mine from NAPA for $200. You need to know what other vehicles, besides a 'Crusier has the same compressor. In my case, an Acura also uses the same compressor (just a different pulley, but I used my old one).
 
Basic theory, very generalized:

Existing R12 systems use mineral oil and modern 134 systems use POE (ester) oil. Some may have used a 134 compatible oil called PAG oil in the past or due to cost (POE is expensive) which also works with 134 systems. You can't mix PAG and mineral oils in a system or you will have acid and corrosion. With any oil, part of the oil (~2oz) pools in the compressor and the rest (~6oz) pools in the components. You should flush the entire system (except compressor unless compressor is PAG oiled) when you convert from one type of refrigerant system to another that needs a different oil-base (i.e. you install used/new compressor that might already contain oil of a different type). (Many new compressors come without oil – check it first!!!)

Since POE oil will tolerate mixing with a small amount of minerl oil stored in a compressor, you only have to flush the components and not the compressor when converting from mineral oil to POE oil. If either the compressor or the system contains any PAG oil, you must flush all the components if a different kind of oil was used anywhere in the system, and this includes the compressor. Since compressors can't safely be flushed without hand oiling the bearings, this may create a problem if you don't want to open up the compressor.

In basic terms why the oil matters is that 134 doesn't mix with mineral oil because it won't "push" it around through the system and your compressor will burn up. R12 “pushes” mineral oil around very well. Freeze 12 gets around this by being a mix of 80% 134 and 20% 142b. The 20% 142b (in theory) works as a “pusher” as well and will push the old mineral oil around enough (hopefully) to not burn out your compressor. (This is why Freeze-12 advertises that you can just use it as replacement for R12. And from this quickie course we derive that Freeze-12 would push POE oil "very well" and mineral oil "some".)

So your goal is to keep the oil the same in the system first off if possible (or flush and replace the component's oil with POE, leaving the 2oz of mineral oil in the compressor & adding 6oz POE to components). Secondly you need to use a refrigerant that will “push” the oil you are using (R12 or Freeze-12 with mineral, or any of the 3 refrigerants with POE.)

When replacing the compressor with a used one, you therefore need to try to purchase one with the same type of oil (if it contains it) that was in your system before if you don't plan on flushing it. Then if converting to a refrigerant that "likes" POE oil better, use POE oil in the components (assuming either POE or mineral oil in the compressor). With PAG oil in a compressor, you must flush the compressor and re-oil the bearings inside before you can change the oil type.

So
- keep with the same type of oil if possible
- do not flush compressor without disassembing and oiling bearings
- if converting, OK to have a little mineral oil in compressor (2 oz) if flushing remaining components and adding (6 oz) POE oil to them
- all refrigerants love POE oil
- PAG oil in a compressor/ in components will corrode system if added to mineral oil system

Also, you should always replace the drier when you work on a system that has been opened for more than a very short time, or that has been in use for some time. The drier usually is a colector of oil. Most modern driers work with either oil.
 
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I just won this a/c compressor. What are the red and blue things on top? My old one doesn't have those.

I did get a new dryer today that I plan to change when I do the new compressor.
landcruiser airc compressor.webp
 
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The red and blue things are the shraeder valves. Note that the picture clearly shows OPEN liquid and suction lines on the compressor. That's BAD.
 
yournamehere said:
Alright, What's the deal and why so bad.

1. Dirt enters the compressor causing excess wear.
2. Non-compressibles are able to enter reducing efficiency and possibly damaging seals and internal components.
3. Some one not knowledgeable could have "replaced" the oil that got spilled out.

Any new compressor is sealed and likely also charged with nitrogen which is an inert gas (preserves the compressor guts).

I would have your shop flush the compressor (as well as the rest of the system) COMPLETELY and then evacuate it for a longer time than usual to evaporate any water or impurities from the internals. Insist on a new dryer (they will probably put in a new one anyways).
 
Think of it as a plate of uncovered cookies someone mails you. Should you eat them? They look OK to me .... but maybe not ...

Maybe after you won the acution, the seller quickly removed it from a working system and gingerly placed it inside the box and taped the box severely. Maybe the system it was removed from was properly cared for and was flushed and re-oiled with ester whenever the conversion was done (Red/Blue caps indicate 134 conversion and hopefully the right oil). Maybe it is pristine, just removed from the vehicle, and only a few dust particals have been picked up by the open connections in the sealed box, and thus it will give you no trouble and work great.

Or then again, maybe it sat with the hoses removed on a chasis where the hood had been removed and rain water poured in. I would assume the inside of the aluminum hose connections to be anodized if this was the case, but they appear to not be.

You could also just ask the seller what the condition is, what kind of oil, how long did it sit like this, when was it removed, etc.

Personally, I would say that I am not that anal of a person but unless I had someone's word that the compressor just came off a working system and had been open only while being mailed to me, I would make a move to have the beoch flushed. (Looks like seller would have at least wrapped some cellophane around them or something.)
 
In this case I would say that you have purchased a non returnable compressor so your options are that you have to work with what you have shelled out the cash for already. I phoned my friend at Austin Baker Sales (www.austinbakersales.com) in Denton TX (re-mans compressors) and he gave me the latest low down on what the options are (educating myself too).

- under no circumstances should a compressor be flushed (flushing causes the bearings to be dried out and will cause premature failure)
- the modern POE oils (poly ester oils) will mix with the old mineral oil and today’s common procedure is to flush the rest of the system of oil and add 4-6 oz of POE oil, with the assumption that 2 oz of a previous oil (POE or mineral) is remaining in the compressor
- (correction of previous post: it was the first oil for 134 that came out, the PAG series oils that caused problems when mixed with the old mineral oil, so you are OK mixing POE oils with small amounts of mineral oil, per AustinBakerSales)
- if there is a drain plug on the compressor, then you can remove a lot of the oil out here, but measure the oil that comes out and if you get the expected 2 oz to drain, when you add POE oil to the system you add an additional 2 oz for a total of 8 oz of oil that you have added to a flushed system (other components flushed, drier replaced)
- there is no way to clean out this compressor with any flush method without leaving it bone dry and exposed to being run dry long enough to burn up (before the oil can start to circulate) so you would have to have it rebuilt if you want it pristine clean
- AustinBaker says that even compressors that are shipped “dry” have a small amount of (usually) mineral oil on the bearings to keep them from burning up during the early stages of oil filling

So in your particular case, it appears that all you can do is to use the ebay compressor as it is, ensure you have a new drier and hope that the drier catches any debris in the compressor that accumulated there while it was open. You might try checking for a drain plug, drain out all the oil and pour that much POE oil in the vacuum side of it before installing. Note that you add 2 oz of oil to the compressor by pouring it in the intake port and (if system was flushed) either distribute the remaining 4-6 oz throughout the system if you have multiple connections open (i.e. replacing o-rings) or simply pour the rest in any other open port. You may have to rotate the clutch of the compressor to get it to ‘drink’ the 2 oz oil fill if you are adding to system that is open. As an alternative, if you are adding a full oil charge, use one of the cans of refrigerant that contains the 8 oz of oil and use it as the first can of additive to a vacuumed system. The vacuum pulled on the system should suck enough oil out of the can and into the compressor before you jumper the pressure switch to cause the clutch engaged.

I also asked my friend what the going rate for work on the nipanzo (sp?) compressor. He says they will go through your compressor, adding seals and o-rings for around $95 and will do R&Rs where you ship your compressor to them, they try to fix your existing compressor and if they can’t, they put your old clutch and pully on a remaned one and that generally costs $175 - $225.

I have been using them for years and have been very happy with their work. They always try to fix the old compressor for me first and never blanketly try to sell me a re-man’ed one if I don’t need it. The phone number is 940-382-3281 if you have any questions or want to do a R&R on a future compressor rebuild.

Note: This information is being shared as hear say and only by word of mouth. No accuracy or liability is invoked or implied. Working with A/C systems requires training and certification and no one should work on an A/C system without completing both.
 
donphillipe said:
Note: This information is being shared as hear say and only by word of mouth. No accuracy or liability is invoked or implied. Working with A/C systems requires training and certification and no one should work on an A/C system without completing both.

it is a SAD SAD day when someone on this forum thinks they need a legal'ese disclaimer.

great info though.
 
There are many sad stories in the naked city ....

My reason for it was that most wrenching exposes one to a smashed thumb or toe, but someone getting hit in the eye with a sub-zero liquid spray or slapped up-side the head with a hose popping off of a system under 300 PSI can be damaged for life (assuming they recover from it).

Our country is a mess now, I agree. i.e. just the other day I needed a special hose made up locally and they had to know what I was going to use if for before selling it to me due to legalities!

Anyway, outside our new "culture", glad you enjoyed the info!
 
I understand, it is a bummer that we have degraded to that level. If you are doing the work yourself - it's your own butt - IMO. Somewhere we have lost the concept of self accountability. I don't know how to street luge but if i bought a sled w/o so much as a how-to book, i think it's wrong to sue the person you bought the sled from.

you know what they say...

common sense - it's not so common.

(stepping off soap box now)

rob
 
OK!!! I got the compressor today at 2p. Had it installed by 2:30 and had the Line-X guy vacuum it for over an hour. high side and low side vac. New o-rings and dryer. The thing will freeze a nut sack between some boobies. It is frigid!!!


That's the great news.

When he drove the truck, he said my fan clutch never disengaged and that is why my truck gets poor mileage. Anyone had this problem?

also he said the clutch lets out to far at the top. That makes too people that said that. Now what to fix. HUH HUH HUH?
 
You're in luck on your used compressor. The used one I had did not work!
 
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