Annoying starting problem

[Diesel Weasel]

Hey everyone,

I've got an annoying little starting problem with my BJ60 w/3B (245,000km).. Basically the problem is that, occasionally the truck will fail to start on the first series of cranks. For example: I get into the truck in the morning when it is cold, I glow for 14 seconds and start--starts right away. The next day I get in the morning, same scenario and it won't start right away--I stop cranking after 5-10 cranks, wait 5 seconds, crank again and it starts.

Now, it's not a glow plug problem as this situation occurs even when the truck is completely warm. For example, I drive the truck for 1/2 an hour, I stop to go into a store for 5 minutes and come back out, 5-10 cranks, no start, wait 5 seconds, crank again and it starts. The next time, same scenario, starts right away like it should when it's warm..

It gets more interesting: I never experience ANY problems after the truck has started. Once the truck has started it runs perfectly and will continue to run perfectly until I shut it down.. No sputtering, rough idle, loss of power, no weird EDIC shut downs, etc.. It runs great..

So my best guess here is that I've got an air leak.. But what has me confused is that if it's an air leak, why wouldn't I see it when the truck was running? Could a small air leak only show up when starting, perhaps it is absorbed by the engine once it has started? If it is an air leak where would it most likely be?

What I've looked at so far:

- I had a funky banjo bolt with a bolt through the center on my fuel filter housing where I would expect the bleeder nipple to be and have replaced it with a proper OEM bleeder, problem is still there.

- My tank does build up a large vacuum that is heard when the cap is removed during refueling. If I recall correctly, this is normal. Was wondering if this can somehow suck the fuel back into the tank??

- My primer pump (surprise surprise) leaks like crazy when it's unscrewed, but as I understand it, it should be OK once it's screwed in.


I was going to go ahead and just replace the primer next, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say first.

Thanks!

 

[roscoFJ73]

Hey everyone,

I've got an annoying little starting problem with my BJ60 w/3B (245,000km).. Basically the problem is that, occasionally the truck will fail to start on the first series of cranks. For example: I get into the truck in the morning when it is cold, I glow for 14 seconds and start--starts right away. The next day I get in the morning, same scenario and it won't start right away--I stop cranking after 5-10 cranks, wait 5 seconds, crank again and it starts.

Now, it's not a glow plug problem as this situation occurs even when the truck is completely warm. For example, I drive the truck for 1/2 an hour, I stop to go into a store for 5 minutes and come back out, 5-10 cranks, no start, wait 5 seconds, crank again and it starts. The next time, same scenario, starts right away like it should when it's warm..

It gets more interesting: I never experience ANY problems after the truck has started. Once the truck has started it runs perfectly and will continue to run perfectly until I shut it down.. No sputtering, rough idle, loss of power, no weird EDIC shut downs, etc.. It runs great..

So my best guess here is that I've got an air leak.. But what has me confused is that if it's an air leak, why wouldn't I see it when the truck was running? Could a small air leak only show up when starting, perhaps it is absorbed by the engine once it has started? If it is an air leak where would it most likely be?

What I've looked at so far:

- I had a funky banjo bolt with a bolt through the center on my fuel filter housing where I would expect the bleeder nipple to be and have replaced it with a proper OEM bleeder, problem is still there.

- My tank does build up a large vacuum that is heard when the cap is removed during refueling. If I recall correctly, this is normal. Was wondering if this can somehow suck the fuel back into the tank??

- My primer pump (surprise surprise) leaks like crazy when it's unscrewed, but as I understand it, it should be OK once it's screwed in.


I was going to go ahead and just replace the primer next, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say first.

Thanks!

Thats a good explanation of your problem but I dont know the answer.

However I did notice that you get vaccum in the tank. As I posted on this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=186600 , my fuel cap ,which is supposed to be for all 60 and 70 series ,diesel or petrol,has a one way valve that allows air in.

But if you had a problem with vaccum ,it would occur most likely when you are using a lot of fuel,like on the freeway.
If its an air leak,which is my bet,its probably round the filter or injector lines .
Some say the primer pump cant leak when screwed down,however fluid can leak past threads that have been torqued with wrenches then maybe old pumps can leak when they are fingertight

 

[T.Stanford]

I'm wondering if it's your "shutdown" system, in the 3b (or any diesel) to shutdown you have to choke off either fuel or air to the engine. I believe the 3B has a vacuum actuated air intake shutter, perhaps the shutter is remaining closed at times not allowing the engine to start. I gather that there is a vacuum switching valve that controls this operation and maybe it's not functioning correctly. Your vacuum pump could also be the problem, how are your brakes operating? The only manual I have for my 60 is the Max Ellery one so please forgive the vague answer. Tony

 

[DieselROCKS]

I had a problem similar to this however it happened to me in the middle of 35C summer. I tracked it down to the primer on the low pressure fuel pump. Yes it leaked like crazy and appeared to seal up but changing it out did the trick. It may be worth checking your connections to the EDIC servo to make sure its working all of the time.

 

[Diesel Weasel]

Just picked up a bosch primer pump today at Proctor & Wilson here in Victoria so I will give that a try and report back. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[lostmarbles]

Just picked up a bosch primer pump today at Proctor & Wilson here in Victoria so I will give that a try and report back. Thanks for the suggestions.

I like your thinking here Diesel Weasel!

If the solution to your main problem isn't staring you in the face - Then fix something that you KNOW is faulty on the off-chance that it may cure your main problem too. I do this all the time.

(That primer pump shouldn't really leak diesel under ANY conditions - So replacing it is your logical next step.)

But my guess for the cause of your main problem is your EDIC system malfunctioning. So while I agree fully with replacing your primer pump, if the starting problem persists, I suggest getting someone to check the behaviour of your "EDIC rod" during starting. (The motor/gearing may just be sticking and need a lube/service.)

Cheers

 

[Icefire]

you dont want a vacuum in the tank, this can cause a no start condition. Modify your fuel cap to vent.

 

[Diesel Weasel]

So I've got the bosch primer + new washer on there now and have ran with it for a few days. The problem is still there .. I'll look into is the tank vacuum next.. Again, thanks for the suggestions everyone, keep 'em coming

 

[lostmarbles]

So I've got the bosch primer + new washer on there now and have ran with it for a few days. The problem is still there .. I'll look into is the tank vacuum next.. Again, thanks for the suggestions everyone, keep 'em coming

My money is still on the problem being that your edic is sticking occasionally.

 

[deezlcruzr]

I'm with Marbles- check your edic. I had a similar problem with my BJ. I removed the edic and cleaned the electrical contacts inside. Works like a charm.

 

[Diesel Weasel]

Ok, I just discovered that the nut that holds the EDIC arm to the pump was nearly falling out because it was so loose. I tightened it up, we will see if that was the problem

 

[Diesel Weasel]

Problem is fixed! Lostmarbles, deezl, you guys were right .. EDIC was the problem. After tightening up the arm connecting to the pump all has been good--the problem was staring me in the face all along .. Oh well, at least I replaced a few parts that needed to be replaced anyway.. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

 

[johnnyporp]

Same Problem But No Edic

i HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM ALMOST DOWN TO THE "T" BUT I have no edic. 12ht auto trans 100k miles. Motor runs great after start and on road. Starts in the AM but later the stated above intermitted problem.
Changed VSV and vacuum lines.
Thoughts.

 

[brownbear]

i HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM ALMOST DOWN TO THE "T" BUT I have no edic. 12ht auto trans 100k miles. Motor runs great after start and on road. Starts in the AM but later the stated above intermitted problem.
Changed VSV and vacuum lines.
Thoughts.

I suggest starting a whole new thread for your problem. More likely to get more views.