on sat. i had the friendly local gas company stop by to relight my furnance and water heater. someone in the neiborhood nicked the gas line and it had to be shut down to effect repairs. trouble developed after the techie saw my furnance. some soot had collected. he disconnected my gas line to the appliance & caped the line ( no red tag ) and wrote an offical looking paper that said "warning:danger this appliance or meter must not be turned on untill the condition below is corrected". so, fast foward to today, i had a local service company out to look into the needed repairs/service. it didn't take too long before the service guy was saying that i need a new furnance. there seems to be quite a lot lf soot collecteing on the walls of the heat exchanger( combustion side) is this normal or a sign of a shot furnance? the unit is over 20years old and according to the service guy canot be replaced, except as a new furnance package. i'd like to be prepaired for when the service company sales man calls on me later this week.
am i being taken advantage of here?
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splitshot
Head cook, Bottle washer, and Peace keeper.
I would get a second opinion from another certified HVAC company..
agreed, they will make more selling you a new unit and a service contract then cleaning the old one. All trades are going for the throat right now since there's not much work.
Agree with the 2 above. I had a similar situation........wall heater pilot light wouldn't stay lit. Guy #1 from Company A says I need a replacement wall heater. To the tune of $2500 IIRC. I call Company A and say BS, they say we'll send another guy. Guy #2 from Company A comes out...WITH new unit in van and takes a look......tells me some dip**** mistakenly installed a natural gas jet and we need a LP jet (slightly larger). Fixed and out the door 20 mins later. Still works to this day.
I spent a while researching furnace problems last year...my findings were
1) there are a couple of folks on this site who have forgotten more than I will ever know about furnaces - hopefully they will chime in!
2) a cracked heat exchanger can cause soot and CAN also be the source of dangerous carbon monoxide. You may have lucked out if someone identified this issue correctly for you.
3) If 2) above - it is possible that they cannot source another heat exchanger (out of production etc) and a new furnace is in order..
4) Everyone should have a carbon monoxide detector (or two) in their homes if heating by combustibles.
good luck
(I used to be a lot smarter till I fell asleep with a candle lantern burning for heat in a car with closed windows - fortunately I woke up with a splitting headache and lots fewer brain cells!)
1) there are a couple of folks on this site who have forgotten more than I will ever know about furnaces - hopefully they will chime in!
2) a cracked heat exchanger can cause soot and CAN also be the source of dangerous carbon monoxide. You may have lucked out if someone identified this issue correctly for you.
3) If 2) above - it is possible that they cannot source another heat exchanger (out of production etc) and a new furnace is in order..
4) Everyone should have a carbon monoxide detector (or two) in their homes if heating by combustibles.
good luck
(I used to be a lot smarter till I fell asleep with a candle lantern burning for heat in a car with closed windows - fortunately I woke up with a splitting headache and lots fewer brain cells!)
Post the brand and model of your furnace, it might help.
It does not have to be cracked to produce soot. You could clean it yourself ,inspect for cracks. Like above its important to know make and model. If its cast I would say the chances of it being fawked is high.
If the guy did not make an half ass attempt to clean and inspect for cracks then yes you are being fawked. It takes more than just a minute to find out just what is wrong.
If the guy did not make an half ass attempt to clean and inspect for cracks then yes you are being fawked. It takes more than just a minute to find out just what is wrong.
vtcruiser60
SILVER Star
First, spend some money on a carbon monoxide detector. If you have a furnace that old, you should have a detector in your house. Its a stupid way to die.
Second, get three estimates from three different companies to service your existing furnace. Upon examination, I bet they will recommend servicing rather than replacement.
Third, if you need replacement (which after 20 yrs wouldn't surprise me) check with your local utility company for rebates and special financing. We have a state based energy efficiency utility in Vermont that actually does energy efficiency retrofitting on houses. They'll subsidize the cost of buying a newer more efficient unit, often with ridiculously low financing rates. Why would a utility pay you to purchase a new unit???? It is cheaper for them to incentivize home owners to save energy so they can resell it...rather than paying infrastructure costs to expand their capacity to produce it.
HTH
Second, get three estimates from three different companies to service your existing furnace. Upon examination, I bet they will recommend servicing rather than replacement.
Third, if you need replacement (which after 20 yrs wouldn't surprise me) check with your local utility company for rebates and special financing. We have a state based energy efficiency utility in Vermont that actually does energy efficiency retrofitting on houses. They'll subsidize the cost of buying a newer more efficient unit, often with ridiculously low financing rates. Why would a utility pay you to purchase a new unit???? It is cheaper for them to incentivize home owners to save energy so they can resell it...rather than paying infrastructure costs to expand their capacity to produce it.
HTH
Good advice provided by others...I'll just add an anecdote. When I was in the process of buying my house - part of the P&S included repairing a toilet. The owner had moved and a tenant/housesitter was living in the place. A plumber came to do the repair and offered the tenant/housesitter $200 to help him convince the owner that a new septic system was needed. 
PS you want to be 100% confident that your heat exchanger is exchanging nothing but heat. cracked heat exchangers are deadly - no exciting explosions or fires just a yawn, sleepy sleepy, goodnight.....followed by no waking up.
PS you want to be 100% confident that your heat exchanger is exchanging nothing but heat. cracked heat exchangers are deadly - no exciting explosions or fires just a yawn, sleepy sleepy, goodnight.....followed by no waking up.
well, gas fired appliances that have soot building up soot relates directly to the gas / air mixture. a lot of the time it means that there is not enough oxegen to properly burn the gas. if the gas is burning properly it should be a nice blue flame, with maybe only the tips of the flame being orangeish.and yes this may pump your house with carbon monoxide......so now you know the symptom, the problem may be harder to diagnose
the first thing i would look for is combustion air...where is the unit getting oxegen? the second thing to check is how and where is it being vented...where is the burnt gas going? obstructions or the vent being too small might also cause this to happen.critters like to crawl into warm vent pipes, and this is a good place for them to die in also.
if you have a hot water heater in the same room thats gas fired and tied to the same vent it would usually show the same symptoms if these were true.
if your combustion air and venting is ok then it becomes a matter of internal components.this is a bit tricky to diagnose. for the most part a 20 year old furnace will consist of two major components for gas: a soloniod and a regulator. the soloniod is connected to a few saftey features like a thermocouple, maybe some louverd door to open the combustion chamber. if the soloniod is not opening all the way for some reason you may not be getting enough gas to feed the furnace properly. the regulater might be doing the same thing. the oraface may be clogged, or a spring stuck etc. maybe when the gas line was nicked some crap got in the supply and clogged something. or the line wasn't purged and there is other gasses in the gas companys supply.
regulators and soloniods should be fairly easy to replace and diagnose....but you never know. if its some other internal component( combustion chamber, sensors, logic board,etc) you might be SOL my friend.
i would look for symptoms in other appliances. maybe not just in your house but check with neighbors also. also its not unusual to have a 20 year old furnace die on you. there should be tonns of HVAC contractors willing to get in there and give your unit a check-up.keep an eye on them. if you have some monkey in there who just opend the cover and told you you need a new furnace be wary.have them give you a reason why its doing whatever its doing. a second opinion is also good. a new furnace can cost anywhere form $1000-$5000 installed (though they only cost $600-$1200 wholesale from a supply house depending on make/model)
the first thing i would look for is combustion air...where is the unit getting oxegen? the second thing to check is how and where is it being vented...where is the burnt gas going? obstructions or the vent being too small might also cause this to happen.critters like to crawl into warm vent pipes, and this is a good place for them to die in also.
if you have a hot water heater in the same room thats gas fired and tied to the same vent it would usually show the same symptoms if these were true.
if your combustion air and venting is ok then it becomes a matter of internal components.this is a bit tricky to diagnose. for the most part a 20 year old furnace will consist of two major components for gas: a soloniod and a regulator. the soloniod is connected to a few saftey features like a thermocouple, maybe some louverd door to open the combustion chamber. if the soloniod is not opening all the way for some reason you may not be getting enough gas to feed the furnace properly. the regulater might be doing the same thing. the oraface may be clogged, or a spring stuck etc. maybe when the gas line was nicked some crap got in the supply and clogged something. or the line wasn't purged and there is other gasses in the gas companys supply.
regulators and soloniods should be fairly easy to replace and diagnose....but you never know. if its some other internal component( combustion chamber, sensors, logic board,etc) you might be SOL my friend.
i would look for symptoms in other appliances. maybe not just in your house but check with neighbors also. also its not unusual to have a 20 year old furnace die on you. there should be tonns of HVAC contractors willing to get in there and give your unit a check-up.keep an eye on them. if you have some monkey in there who just opend the cover and told you you need a new furnace be wary.have them give you a reason why its doing whatever its doing. a second opinion is also good. a new furnace can cost anywhere form $1000-$5000 installed (though they only cost $600-$1200 wholesale from a supply house depending on make/model)
x2 on what brand it is. Replaced BOTH mine because they had been 'recalled' for easily cracked fireboxes. Mfg was out of business. That was several years ago and can't recall the mfg name. Might recognize it if I saw it again. Found out about it from the gas company when they checked out everything when we bought the house.
We could have had them repaired but at almost the same age as yours, we decided to replace with new high efficency units. If you go this route, as already mentioned, check with your local utilities for rebates, etc on new units.
We could have had them repaired but at almost the same age as yours, we decided to replace with new high efficency units. If you go this route, as already mentioned, check with your local utilities for rebates, etc on new units.
