sadly, there are already a bunch of micro water turbine generators on amazon, as low as $10 or $20 for about 10W -enough to charge a phone-; and a lot of YT vids on DIY ones, which is much more fun.
All electric camping?
- Thread starter ntsqd
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ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #22
Bummer.
My personal opinion, that I won't qualify as anything more, of Renology is that their greatest success is their marketing. One the very few Chinese companies that started out on amazon to have hired a savvy US marketing firm or department with good ad text proof-readers.
My personal opinion, that I won't qualify as anything more, of Renology is that their greatest success is their marketing. One the very few Chinese companies that started out on amazon to have hired a savvy US marketing firm or department with good ad text proof-readers.
A bit outside the main point of this thread -so I'll keep it short- but since you started the thread and mentioned them, and just in case somebody wants to go "all electric" per OP with Renogy equipment, I'll add/confirm that their marketing prowess (^) does not extend to their quality control and their customer service IME, unfortunately...
I'll also add that I spent quite a bit of time yesterday playing with Victron stuff and reading their literature, and dang, their manuals and overall support are really good, what a pleasure. Of course, we're paying extra for all that but it's nice. And talking about "all electric", one strength of Victron is their emphasis on full system integration and modularity. All the bits talk with each other. As of now, I would definitely go mostly with Victron for a big system, including a vehicle one. It would be hard to swallow paying for one of their batteries or inverters, though, admittedly. But it's not really a must either, I can get by with a few non-Victron components easily enough, if at the price of missing out on a bit more functionality.
I'll also add that I spent quite a bit of time yesterday playing with Victron stuff and reading their literature, and dang, their manuals and overall support are really good, what a pleasure. Of course, we're paying extra for all that but it's nice. And talking about "all electric", one strength of Victron is their emphasis on full system integration and modularity. All the bits talk with each other. As of now, I would definitely go mostly with Victron for a big system, including a vehicle one. It would be hard to swallow paying for one of their batteries or inverters, though, admittedly. But it's not really a must either, I can get by with a few non-Victron components easily enough, if at the price of missing out on a bit more functionality.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #24
The few Victron parts that I have are pretty nice. Now if I could just get around to setting them up....
In some ways I miss the "stupid days" of electronics that just did what they were supposed to do once installed. Now an install isn't complete until I've d/l'd some application that talks to the device and it is a lengthy process to get the device set-up and running.
It is easy to design something complicated. It is far, far harder to design something simple.
In some ways I miss the "stupid days" of electronics that just did what they were supposed to do once installed. Now an install isn't complete until I've d/l'd some application that talks to the device and it is a lengthy process to get the device set-up and running.
It is easy to design something complicated. It is far, far harder to design something simple.
FrazzledHunter
SILVER Star
This might sound a tad bit biased but unless forced otherwise:
- Only Victron
- Nothing but Victron
- Victron all day
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #27
It depends on what it is. My preference is BEP Marine, but they don't make solar related stuff. Some BEP Marine product is sold in the US by Blue Sea Systems, which is my second choice for those things that they do offer. Except for their L-series contactors. Those I procure from the cosmetic scrap bin at work. 
I watched a part of that video, and I'm intrigued at how much electric power is predominate in camping
without realizing. I've got the NL fridge, had it for 8-9 yrs now. But simple stuff like portable lights, headlamps,
ipads, electric hand tools now. I wouldn't travel now without 18V impact and ratchet, even is they never get used.
Electric chainsaws. Many of these need 110v recharging. I just hope they last for duration, or I hit up a hotel room
in the middle of a trip to recharge. ( Ya know, need a hot shower )
I looked at this Patriot Generator - for 3 sec - as it comes in at $3K!!
Which brings up the question in a roundabout way, what is this thing really? Glorified battery box recharged by solar?
I live in a world up north where solar is questionable value, short days and low sun.
without realizing. I've got the NL fridge, had it for 8-9 yrs now. But simple stuff like portable lights, headlamps,
ipads, electric hand tools now. I wouldn't travel now without 18V impact and ratchet, even is they never get used.
Electric chainsaws. Many of these need 110v recharging. I just hope they last for duration, or I hit up a hotel room
in the middle of a trip to recharge. ( Ya know, need a hot shower )
I looked at this Patriot Generator - for 3 sec - as it comes in at $3K!!
Which brings up the question in a roundabout way, what is this thing really? Glorified battery box recharged by solar?
I live in a world up north where solar is questionable value, short days and low sun.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #29
On the electric chainsaw front; I've been looking at the Milwaukee M18 chain saw. Very specifically because Milwaukee offers p/n 48-59-1810 which is a battery charger for both the M12 and the M18 batteries that runs from a vehicle's 12VDC Power Point. I already carry one of those as part of the race-chase/big trip tools complement.
Did not know that, very useful and helpful! Thx!
I better look, I got a charger in my Milwaukee bundle buy a couple of months ago, don't think it's got 12V though.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #31
Welcome. Most are 120VAC. I've never seen the 12VDC charger packaged with any tool. I found it on a whim. Got to thinking "what if I didn't need an inverter to charge these batteries. Does Milwaukee make something to do that?" And then went looking for and found it buried in their web page.
I don't need mine often enough to have real world feed-back on it. I'd like to find someone who has used it extensively. Being current Milwaukee production it doesn't worry me, but I would like to know more about it in a long term use.
As to the saw, with a puny 16" bar I'm not thinking that I'm going to go out cutting down Doug Firs or anything like that. But for camp use and trimming the occasional limb from a trail it may be just enough saw.
I don't need mine often enough to have real world feed-back on it. I'd like to find someone who has used it extensively. Being current Milwaukee production it doesn't worry me, but I would like to know more about it in a long term use.
As to the saw, with a puny 16" bar I'm not thinking that I'm going to go out cutting down Doug Firs or anything like that. But for camp use and trimming the occasional limb from a trail it may be just enough saw.
CP, if you already have 110V chargers, why aren't you using an inverter? That is likely more versatile and maybe even cheaper to buy than to get a specialized 12V charger. You lose a bit of power but it's probably insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
^ yes, 16" is plenty big for a trail saw IMO. I would even go smaller, although admittedly that would not save much space.
^ yes, 16" is plenty big for a trail saw IMO. I would even go smaller, although admittedly that would not save much space.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #33
An inverter is more stuff to carry if you're not already bringing one. But my chief reason for getting the dedicated 12VDC charger is cut down on clutter.
I've even debated mounting the charger and hard wiring it to the house battery system. I have a set of power outlets set up on a timer relay so that they are live for the first 20 mins after turning on the ignition, then they turn off. I use these outlets to keep the rechargeable flashlight and the 2M H-T batteries topped-off w/o subjecting them to constant charging.
I've even debated mounting the charger and hard wiring it to the house battery system. I have a set of power outlets set up on a timer relay so that they are live for the first 20 mins after turning on the ignition, then they turn off. I use these outlets to keep the rechargeable flashlight and the 2M H-T batteries topped-off w/o subjecting them to constant charging.
FrazzledHunter
SILVER Star
Regarding battery-electric tools. I'm a Makita guy and Makita does have a DC battery charger which can run from a car's cigarette lighter. I can't imagine how long it takes to charge a 4 or 6 Ah battery but I bet it isn't very fast. I use the 120V
charger and run it off my Goal Zero 1500X's inverter.
Ref:
Makita USA - Product Details -DC18SE - https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/DC18SE
charger and run it off my Goal Zero 1500X's inverter.
Ref:
Makita USA - Product Details -DC18SE - https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/DC18SE
I bought one on Amazon today. It's a different part number, 1812 as opposed to 1810 but same thing, I looked it up on
the Milwaukee website to be sure, and no it's not been discontinued either. I will be putting it to the test as I'll only use it
for the next little while, I'll leave the charger in the Tundra and charge batteries when I go to town.
Reality check for me is a: I don't use these tools that often especially with the truck. Frugal is just caution in the bush with
limited resources. I keep things charged up, so by the time I discharge the battery I hope it's need is since past. I'd think
that a single battery could be charged in say a 6-7 hr driving day.
I don't use inverters, Anything 110v can be left at home but I have carried 110v chargers but only knowing I do hit the odd
hotel travelling and that's when I catch up stuff.
the Milwaukee website to be sure, and no it's not been discontinued either. I will be putting it to the test as I'll only use it
for the next little while, I'll leave the charger in the Tundra and charge batteries when I go to town.
Reality check for me is a: I don't use these tools that often especially with the truck. Frugal is just caution in the bush with
limited resources. I keep things charged up, so by the time I discharge the battery I hope it's need is since past. I'd think
that a single battery could be charged in say a 6-7 hr driving day.
I don't use inverters, Anything 110v can be left at home but I have carried 110v chargers but only knowing I do hit the odd
hotel travelling and that's when I catch up stuff.
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Technology is changing fast, seems like the old duel battery systems may be a thing of the past when these types of units come down in price.
www.ecoflow.com
The “get power from a stream” idea is super simple to make work. You could use an alternator for example. Only real problem is you need a flowing stream/creak/river.
Cheers
Portable Power Solutions for Vanlife&Road Trips | EcoFlow US
Full-time RVer or weekend Overlander? Make sure you're kitted out with the best power solutions, solar panels, and accessories for any journey.
The “get power from a stream” idea is super simple to make work. You could use an alternator for example. Only real problem is you need a flowing stream/creak/river.
Cheers
Full electric camping is already happening, and will only become more common in the future. Battery technology has evolved and at the same time LED efficiency has increased so much that propane lanterns are essentially obsolete. Same thing with compressor fridges. About the only thing that hasn't gone full electric is cooking, because heating requires orders of magnitude more power than lighting. As the battery storage technology improves and electric cars become more prevalent, the limitations of power storage are less of a problem. A typical electric car right now has enough energy to power an induction stove or microwave for a couple month's worth of cooking.
However, I still like my old school propane stoves, my antique candle lanterns, and catalytic heaters. But I do admit it's more for personal enjoyment and not because they have any type of advantages. The same way I like having a fire in my fireplace, but when I get cold at night I'm reaching for the google nest to turn on the central heater and not the firewood.
However, I still like my old school propane stoves, my antique candle lanterns, and catalytic heaters. But I do admit it's more for personal enjoyment and not because they have any type of advantages. The same way I like having a fire in my fireplace, but when I get cold at night I'm reaching for the google nest to turn on the central heater and not the firewood.
I understand the reason behind keeping a propane stove, but I'm curious to know why you'd still want your fridge to also be propane. DC electric fridges have become so efficient now that it seems a propane fridge doesn't really have many benefits.
Heat pumps can transfer heat more efficiently, similar to an air conditioner in reverse. I think Tesla's uses them in all their electric cars. But that might work for climate control but won't output the kind of heat needed for cooking.
Last edited:
FrazzledHunter
SILVER Star
We had a 120v/propane refrigerator-freezer on our first trailer and we absolutely hated it. We came to appreciate the 12v "Danfoss" type of compressors when tent camping and in our current trailer BUT you need to have the battery capacity and means to charge them. One of the things we found when shopping for trailers that were being sold as "off grid" capable was the lack of balance between battery size, the electric appliances and the ability to charge the batteries off-grid or under tow. An example would be if a trailer had an induction cook-top, 12V refrigeration, microwave convection oven and just 100-200Ah of batteries.
One notable exception was the Australia Kimberly line of campers which gets off-grid electric camping right, IMHO. They had 12V refrigeration, microwave convection oven and the cook-top was induction, However, they DID offer 600Ah of lithium batteries, adequate rooftop solar panels and the means to charge from the tow vehicle at a high current rating and not just via the 7 pin. That last feature, charging from the tow vehicle, was the only full sized trailer we came across that offered that from the factory, standard. The Kimberly system was almost all-electric but was properly engineered overall to support it.
Lack of adequate battery and charging capability is what we found time and time again with US designed trailers. We concluded that the US RV industry just doesn't get off-grid electric camping. Perhaps that's changed by now.
Kimberly also did something that I hadn't seen anywhere else and that is diesel fuel for heat and optionally, the cook-top.
If I were designing my dream off-grid electric trailer it would be diesel to fuel heat and cooking and electric for everything else. As easy as propane is to get, obtaining diesel fuel is even easier. There are also no restrictions in carrying diesel fuel in tunnels AFAIK. I could carry it in 20L cans on my roof rack, for example.
One notable exception was the Australia Kimberly line of campers which gets off-grid electric camping right, IMHO. They had 12V refrigeration, microwave convection oven and the cook-top was induction, However, they DID offer 600Ah of lithium batteries, adequate rooftop solar panels and the means to charge from the tow vehicle at a high current rating and not just via the 7 pin. That last feature, charging from the tow vehicle, was the only full sized trailer we came across that offered that from the factory, standard. The Kimberly system was almost all-electric but was properly engineered overall to support it.
Lack of adequate battery and charging capability is what we found time and time again with US designed trailers. We concluded that the US RV industry just doesn't get off-grid electric camping. Perhaps that's changed by now.
Kimberly also did something that I hadn't seen anywhere else and that is diesel fuel for heat and optionally, the cook-top.
If I were designing my dream off-grid electric trailer it would be diesel to fuel heat and cooking and electric for everything else. As easy as propane is to get, obtaining diesel fuel is even easier. There are also no restrictions in carrying diesel fuel in tunnels AFAIK. I could carry it in 20L cans on my roof rack, for example.
ntsqd
technerd
- Thread starter
- #39
When I converted our first pop-top camper to a compressor fridge the single, fixed 100w solar panel on the roof could easily keep ahead of it in the SW. I wouldn't take that gamble pretty much anywhere North of the 45th parallel, and in more than few areas South of it.
Oddly enough the guy that I sold that camper to added chinesium diesel heat to it. He kept the propane heater, but his truck is diesel so that is easier for him, too.
An aside that I found by accident is an interesting design choice. Came across a deal on a California Compressors 12VDC model and bought it. In looking it over the compressor motor had 3 wires, one green. Hum. Those wires go into an extruded aluminum housing, and on the far end there is a heavier gauge red and black wire coming out of the housing. Their 12VDC compressor is their small 120VAC compressor with it's own dedicated inverter!
Oddly enough the guy that I sold that camper to added chinesium diesel heat to it. He kept the propane heater, but his truck is diesel so that is easier for him, too.
An aside that I found by accident is an interesting design choice. Came across a deal on a California Compressors 12VDC model and bought it. In looking it over the compressor motor had 3 wires, one green. Hum. Those wires go into an extruded aluminum housing, and on the far end there is a heavier gauge red and black wire coming out of the housing. Their 12VDC compressor is their small 120VAC compressor with it's own dedicated inverter!
I don't think it's so much that the Industry doesn't get it, likely more that they know that if they include the bare minimum they can advertise the electric feature, never mind that it'll drain the battery in a jiffy when they use it (after the camper is sold).
Now to be fair, it's scary how many people don't understand the most basic stuff about solar systems. I was reading some reviews about some panels and there were people giving them one star on amazon and ranting about how the panel didn't do this or did that, and it was very clear from checking the specs that they were plain wrong and just didn't understand how they work. Worse, something like "OMG, I bought this 100W panel and I only got 80W on a sorta sunny day, it's clearly defective, I want a refund. Don't buy it, it's junk! ...".
Now to be fair, it's scary how many people don't understand the most basic stuff about solar systems. I was reading some reviews about some panels and there were people giving them one star on amazon and ranting about how the panel didn't do this or did that, and it was very clear from checking the specs that they were plain wrong and just didn't understand how they work. Worse, something like "OMG, I bought this 100W panel and I only got 80W on a sorta sunny day, it's clearly defective, I want a refund. Don't buy it, it's junk! ...".
