Alaska Cruiser Trek 2010

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Did it break while winching or trying to yank someone?

If a strap breaks while used with a winch, chances are it is a lousy strap.

Generally it is a bad idea to use a stretchable recovery strap with a winch. While there are times when it can be useful to have the stretch, it usually is an unneeded complication. Ideally any sort of strap used as a tree saver or rigging loop will not be stretchable like a recovery strap is.


Mark...
 
Actually I was wondering, if everybody has a winch, why bother trying to snatch someone out. We stopped yanking years ago when we started breaking things on our trucks, not saying a winch won't break things......
 
Largely because a snatch will get you free quick and easy.... a few seconds... quicker than you can even get the winch hooked up. when you are moving 15 rigs over 40 miles of real trail in a day, this becomes important. Snatch strap is always out first choice.

And a strap will often free a rig that would need a double line pul or more...or multiple trucks for anchors.

Use the right tool for the job. Sometimes the strap is the right tool.


Mark...
 
On the way to Alaska, I ran into Mathew (from Quebec) who is traveling from Prudhoe Bay to the tip of Argentina.

He goes by Mathew here on MUD and said he has a thread covering his adventures.
DSCF0014.webp
DSCF1020.webp
DSCF0013.webp
 
Largely because a snatch will get you free quick and easy.... Sometimes the strap is the right tool.


Mark...

I see what you are saying, we never had more than 4 or 5 trucks, and camp was never too far away.
 
Have you ever been hit with a bull whip? Or thought about the lashings that are meted as punishment in parts of the world still?

Now increase the mass a hundredfold, and the power behind it by over 1000 times. Hell yes a strap can do that. All by itself. Seen it more than once. This particular smack was not that big a deal in terms of impact. But plastic headlights and plastic grills are better suited for cars, not trail trucks. :(


Mark...

Now the strap will adsorb some of it's own energy on the way back as well as loose some zing due to it's non-aerodynamic nature.

If it had been a chain breaking under that circumstance, it would probably have sent a link through the block.

I am curious about the straps that broke - and I hate how this hijack of the trip/pictures thread is taking up space - but safe recovery is such an important part of our collective hobby...

So, were these snatch straps or tow straps that broke and flew back for impact? Brand? Strap's fault or wear's fault or rigging fault?

Makes me start thinking of building a front grill out of catwalk material or something.

Those pictures are simply amazing. Post more please!

What was the vehicle total by model? I.e how many 40s, etc...?
What was the person total? Age range?
Other than the two straps - were there any additional recovery gear failures?

Mark W had mentioned possibly having a few 80s set up for rental for the trip for future years - any news on this? Do you have enough 80s up there? If not - maybe have people buy them down here, drive them up there for an event, sell them to you and fly back?

When is the sign up for 2011 going to get posted?

This is a truly epic thread - which is fitting.
 
Now the strap will adsorb some of it's own energy on the way back as well as loose some zing due to it's non-aerodynamic nature.

If it had been a chain breaking under that circumstance, it would probably have sent a link through the block.

I am curious about the straps that broke - and I hate how this hijack of the trip/pictures thread is taking up space - but safe recovery is such an important part of our collective hobby...

So, were these snatch straps or tow straps that broke and flew back for impact? Brand? Strap's fault or wear's fault or rigging fault?

Makes me start thinking of building a front grill out of catwalk material or something.

Those pictures are simply amazing. Post more please!

What was the vehicle total by model? I.e how many 40s, etc...?
What was the person total? Age range?
Other than the two straps - were there any additional recovery gear failures?

Mark W had mentioned possibly having a few 80s set up for rental for the trip for future years - any news on this? Do you have enough 80s up there? If not - maybe have people buy them down here, drive them up there for an event, sell them to you and fly back?

When is the sign up for 2011 going to get posted?

This is a truly epic thread - which is fitting.


Over a long distance, the strap will shed energy to air resistance. Rebounding straight back, not slinging in a circle... for a distance of 5 -10 feet... starting with in excess of 20,000 pounds of stored energy... it will not loose enough to matter.

A chain will not store the same amount of energy so even if it has more mass, it does not hit as hard.

The Rat prevented much more severe damage an likely injury when she stepped in as she arrived from further up the trail and saw that a steel shackle had been used to connect two lines. If she had not caught that, we might have been using the sat phone to call for a medivac when the first strap let go a couple minutes later. Maybe not... but I am glad we did not have to find out.


As to the questions about why the strap failed or if it was the correct strap... I am embarrassed enough that neither Charla or myself stepped in and made them use a beefier strap (Which I had handy in my rig) before they got started. But do you really think that we would have been letting them use a tow strap for this sort of full bore momentum based extraction? Or have let any other mis-rigging slip by? I would have said that no one on the Trek would mis-rig a strap anyway... but the close call with the shackle shows that folks can make mistakes. When you are more used to rock winch pulls than full throttle mud yanks, you bring a different perspective to the extraction sometimes.

The brand is unimportant I think. Any strap will fail if it is over stressed. These were not brand new straps and may have had some UV damage or slight abrasion/wear. But not to the point that most would have set them aside. In this situation it was just a matter of a mis-call on the amount of force being used to move the mired vehicle. A step up in the class of the strap, or a winch pull would have been the better answer. But these were experienced people performing a routine extraction method so we saw no need to make a call from the sidelines.

s*** happens. Sometimes it is just part of the game.

I agree about the grill protection. a rig that gets used the way ours do, need more than a plastic cover over the rad.

For the vehicle count and types... look at the group pics that have been posted (not the last day shot on the river, we had sent a couple of rigs on ahead at that point).

Age range 5-75... I was the only person riding solo and we had three people in a couple of the rigs. And 5 dogs... from 40lbs to 140lbs


Watch for an upcoming article in Trails from the Rat and I about the Trek for the full story and the best pics...

It will be truly Awesomer... maybe even Awesomerest... Promise!

If anyone wants to argue with me about our recovery methods... start a thread somewhere else please. I *might* join in. :)


The Next Trek is slated for next year at the moment... 2011. There will be a few rigs available for rental... details forthcoming later. After 2011, the commercial tour will take priority for me, but I hope to keep the Trek going separate from that.


If you want to by and bring a rig north for me to purchase from you... it will have to be the rig I want with the mods I want, at comparable cost to what I can procure and build myself... Probably not a winner for anyone considering it. But we could talk. :)

We have more Cruisers per-capita here than anywhere else in the US or Canada I think.


And if the Blue Moose does not give the nod to the deal, then I would have to turn you down. ;) He is a picky SOB.


Mark...
 
Last edited:
I have found that soaking a strap in swamp muck.... you have to have the right ratio of peat and decaying animal matter... and storing it in pure glacial ice until needed... increases it strength by a factor of 17.593


Mark...
 
Ratpuke piloting Agent Orange.

Note the color of the river in these shots of the Rat fording... This river normally runs cemenT grey... CEMENT!

The orange is from the rain fed runoff that brought the river up about 4-5 inches as we repaired a broken birfield on a gravel bar out in the middle of the flow.


Mark...
 
Makes me start thinking of building a front grill out of catwalk material or something.

I've been thinking of similar, but so I can also incorporate a convoluted grille screen for catching seeds and bugs in front of the radiator. It will keep them from getting stuck in the radiator.

This shows a screen of the type I want to add in there. Tractor Parts John Deere grill screens and side screens from Restoration Supply. I''d likely bury the screen behind a showier grill. I also may make it removable for easier cleaning. On a tractor you just run your gloved finger down the convolutions. Debris collects in the depressions while the raised parts remain uncovered.
 
we had some trouble with some of the shorter rigs after the Endless beaver pond. the taller rigs sat high enough to avoid the problem, but the shorter ones got their radiators and grills packed with grass and debris in the water, churned up by the rigs ahead of them I guess. It was enough of a blockage that a couple developed cooling problems right away until we stopped and cleaned it all out.

A good strong grill or front covering of the radiator is a real good idea for a trail rig, as well as someing that will at least let any debris collect where it is easy to clean before it backs into the radiator. keeping mud out of the rad is important too.


Just have to do all of this without blocking airflow too much.


Mark...
 
I just want to thank you all for allowing me to web wheel vicariously though the group! WOW.

Quick question, for the 80 folks that made all of the water crossings. Any water in the (passenger comp) cruiser? If so (which i would guess would be the case) where did it enter? Thanks Justin
 
...Mark...

I did not mean to imply that anyone organizing or on this trek would have through intention or omission have resulted in any negative consequence. More curiosity than anything. If someone does get a recovery thread going, I would love to read your insights on it. Enough on that topic.

When I was trying to put together joining this trip with my truck, the hardest part was figuring out how to get my truck there and back. Before I could get two additional drivers and the needed 3 weeks vacation time lined up, the trek was full. 3500 miles at 10mpg at $3.25 per gallon premium (supercharged) ~ $1200 in fuel costs each way ~$2400 plus 2 oil changes plus motels plus food plus...

Booked out in advance round trip flights to Anchorage are @$500 or so per person. So, the concept of flying out and driving a built rental 80 series on a trip like this has a lot of appeal to it.

I'm looking forward to the article in Trails - and to the information for next year's trek. Thanks!
 
I just want to thank you all for allowing me to web wheel vicariously though the group! WOW.

Quick question, for the 80 folks that made all of the water crossings. Any water in the (passenger comp) cruiser? If so (which i would guess would be the case) where did it enter? Thanks Justin


I *think* that the '80s and '100 stayed pretty dry inside. But Darrell routinely gets some water in his. Around the door seals IIRC. Have to wait for him to wander through Mud and answer for himself I guess. :)


Mark...
 
I did not mean to imply that anyone organizing or on this trek would have through intention or omission have resulted in any negative consequence. More curiosity than anything. If someone does get a recovery thread going, I would love to read your insights on it. Enough on that topic.

When I was trying to put together joining this trip with my truck, the hardest part was figuring out how to get my truck there and back. Before I could get two additional drivers and the needed 3 weeks vacation time lined up, the trek was full. 3500 miles at 10mpg at $3.25 per gallon premium (supercharged) ~ $1200 in fuel costs each way ~$2400 plus 2 oil changes plus motels plus food plus...

Booked out in advance round trip flights to Anchorage are @$500 or so per person. So, the concept of flying out and driving a built rental 80 series on a trip like this has a lot of appeal to it.

I'm looking forward to the article in Trails - and to the information for next year's trek. Thanks!


Yep, the cost of getting a rig and driver to Alaska, as well as the cost of simply living and easting for the 2 weeks on the road... and the actual cost of the time off from work... and the expenses incurred during the time on the trail... and the potential for damage which incurrs costs and delays.... these and similar factors are what make the concept of Blue Moose Overland a winner I think. Once all of that is factored in the cost of the outing we will provide becomes very reasonable for those who can afford to contemplate the trip in any manner.


one nice thing abut the Trek over the years has been the quality of te poeple who have participated. We have had a very skilled and experienced cross section of Cruiser People. Thse who have had less experience have also brought along a good attitude. We have had virtually zero issues which could be attributed to lack of knowledge or personality conflicts. Everyone works together and looks out for each other nicely on the Treks. Big happy family every time.



Mark...
 
Back
Top Bottom