Akebono ceramic brake pads
- Thread starter teutonik
- Start date
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ryanjl
SILVER Star
In modern brake designs, in order to function properly something needs to wear out (for the most part). I'd be afraid of wearing out my rotors instead of the much cheaper and easier to replace pads.
I had a parts guy tell me that more and more cars were using ceramic pads as OEM. Of course, this was for a little acura, not quite the same class of vehicle.
Jared
Jared
Doug M,
In reference to your quote “Liability, cost, etc. “. Do you know of a problem with using ceramic pads? Reason for me asking, recently I been in contact with DBA and they recommend using ceramic pads with there rotors.
Granted they are not OEM rotors if that make a difference.
Phil
In reference to your quote “Liability, cost, etc. “. Do you know of a problem with using ceramic pads? Reason for me asking, recently I been in contact with DBA and they recommend using ceramic pads with there rotors.
Granted they are not OEM rotors if that make a difference.
Phil
- Thread starter
- #6
o.k. skeptics, check out www.olyonline.com/akebono.htm
How about cruiserdan? What's the real story on these?
How about cruiserdan? What's the real story on these?
I might give something like this a try; I'll need new pads soon, PO recently installed aftermarket rotors that are already slightly warped, so I have less to loose if tear them up, If I had good new OEM rotors I would go with the proven 100 series pads
I wonder what the stock pads on my Silverado were made of? The original pads are still very thick after 60K, but I do a lot of freeway/highway miles
I wonder what the stock pads on my Silverado were made of? The original pads are still very thick after 60K, but I do a lot of freeway/highway miles
Phil,
Generally, manufacturers are loathe to try new things in any area, but particularly in the brakes. The brake system is heavily scrutinized and design and material usage follows strict convention in terms of standard proven industry practise. Try using sintered pads, and some attorney will get in front of a jury with a client that drove off the road and say "Every other manufacturer uses standard SAE braking material in their pads. XYZ is the ONLY auto company in the world using sintered pads." Boom, $110 million dollar judgement. It simply doesn't pay to innovate in many vehicle areas.
I'm interested to hear if any OEM is using ceramic pads as that would be news. It's also worth clarifying what "ceramic pads" are in a world of $25 "HID" lights. Are they really referring to otherwise conventional pads with a tiny bit of ceramic powder added so they can put "ceramic" on the labels? Who knows?
DougM
Generally, manufacturers are loathe to try new things in any area, but particularly in the brakes. The brake system is heavily scrutinized and design and material usage follows strict convention in terms of standard proven industry practise. Try using sintered pads, and some attorney will get in front of a jury with a client that drove off the road and say "Every other manufacturer uses standard SAE braking material in their pads. XYZ is the ONLY auto company in the world using sintered pads." Boom, $110 million dollar judgement. It simply doesn't pay to innovate in many vehicle areas.
I'm interested to hear if any OEM is using ceramic pads as that would be news. It's also worth clarifying what "ceramic pads" are in a world of $25 "HID" lights. Are they really referring to otherwise conventional pads with a tiny bit of ceramic powder added so they can put "ceramic" on the labels? Who knows?
DougM
- Thread starter
- #9
Doug, as a product liability attorney who has successfully litigated cases against Toyota, VW and others, I can tell you that your concerns are misplaced. The test for imposing liability is not 'what all the other mfrs. are using at the time'(in fact this is a common ploy used by mfrs. in their defense) but what is the ' state of the art'--something all mfrs. are charged with knowing. Hence innovation is encouraged, if not forced upon mfrs.
As to which mfrs. are using ceramic pads check the link in my previous post,e.g.Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, etc. Interestingly, all, except BMW, are using them with Steel, not ceramic rotors--
As to which mfrs. are using ceramic pads check the link in my previous post,e.g.Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, etc. Interestingly, all, except BMW, are using them with Steel, not ceramic rotors--
Teutonik,
I'm not an attorney and have only been a peripheral part of product liability cases involving automakers I've worked for, but clearly we have different perspectives on this. My perspective was to minimize our exposure to lawsuits by avoiding having technology out there that did not have enough supportive data to expect it to hold up in court. The best kind of supportive data was years of experience with a given material or system, and that it was the current industry practise as shown by other manufacturers employing it. As a former Product Planner, we regularly met with our Legal staffs regarding various proposed or existing technologies, and while innovation in things like climate control, convenience features, seating, etc were never an issue, things like electronic brakes, etc were. As an example, BMWs have had fully electronic steering overseas for years - no mechanical connection whatsoever. Here in the states, they left the mechanical connection (meaning the normal steering shaft from the steering wheel to the steering box) but it was electronically powered. The purpose was to gain data and experience with it in the overly litigious US market before removing the mechanical connection.
I think the legal system has its place, but disagree that it encourages innovation or devation from set standards or practices in any way. In fact, should the legal system see its role as guiding or in any way influencing innovation I would flatly disagree just as I disagree with the US government 'influencing innovation' (ie forcing changes with regs/laws) in the auto industry. Each of these bodies has a role, but I feel innovation should be left to the market (buyers) to guide by voting with their pocketbooks whether they want 30mpg sedans, or a rockin fire breathing V8. Unfortunately, auto companies and most organizations like them long ago shaped their behavior, structure and products to the 'heavily regulated' way of doing business. We consumers are the poorer for it as auto companies spend untold billions attempting to meet an incredible array of misguided, conflicting and downright stupid regs as well as defending themselves against a similarly afflicted onslaught of lawsuits.
Please don't take this as an attack upon you or your profession. I have a lot of good friends who are attorneys and you know as well as I that in any profession there are good and bad and I'm assuming that you're a good one. Didn't mean to get preachy here and I'll now dismount my high horse :-X
DougM
I'm not an attorney and have only been a peripheral part of product liability cases involving automakers I've worked for, but clearly we have different perspectives on this. My perspective was to minimize our exposure to lawsuits by avoiding having technology out there that did not have enough supportive data to expect it to hold up in court. The best kind of supportive data was years of experience with a given material or system, and that it was the current industry practise as shown by other manufacturers employing it. As a former Product Planner, we regularly met with our Legal staffs regarding various proposed or existing technologies, and while innovation in things like climate control, convenience features, seating, etc were never an issue, things like electronic brakes, etc were. As an example, BMWs have had fully electronic steering overseas for years - no mechanical connection whatsoever. Here in the states, they left the mechanical connection (meaning the normal steering shaft from the steering wheel to the steering box) but it was electronically powered. The purpose was to gain data and experience with it in the overly litigious US market before removing the mechanical connection.
I think the legal system has its place, but disagree that it encourages innovation or devation from set standards or practices in any way. In fact, should the legal system see its role as guiding or in any way influencing innovation I would flatly disagree just as I disagree with the US government 'influencing innovation' (ie forcing changes with regs/laws) in the auto industry. Each of these bodies has a role, but I feel innovation should be left to the market (buyers) to guide by voting with their pocketbooks whether they want 30mpg sedans, or a rockin fire breathing V8. Unfortunately, auto companies and most organizations like them long ago shaped their behavior, structure and products to the 'heavily regulated' way of doing business. We consumers are the poorer for it as auto companies spend untold billions attempting to meet an incredible array of misguided, conflicting and downright stupid regs as well as defending themselves against a similarly afflicted onslaught of lawsuits.
Please don't take this as an attack upon you or your profession. I have a lot of good friends who are attorneys and you know as well as I that in any profession there are good and bad and I'm assuming that you're a good one. Didn't mean to get preachy here and I'll now dismount my high horse :-X
DougM
... too much attorney stuff... anywho, I got the pads, and I like em alot. I noticed quite a bit of stopping power diffrence. But they do wear the rotors faster. I have the DBA slotted rotors and after about 6-7k I'm starting to notice wear on the rotors, I.E. there is a small lip forming on the outter edge. (by small i mean really small, but you can feel it). Thats my experiance with em. Hope that helps.
-Bryan
-Bryan
