Airlift Air Bag Users Question??

[scottm]

I'd like to see the condition of the bags after removal. They shouldn't have to, but they may have used a screwdriver to help squeeze them between the coils. Also, I think the hole at the top of the coil is off center (?), if so it could've bent the hose barb over harshly. The T I didn't use was plastic, I don't remember if the hose barbs on the bags were also. I doubt they can get that stiff hose off those hose barbs without cutting the hose, and possibly damaging the hose barbs. I'm such a pessimist.

 

[Brentbba]

Believe me, if I've got the time to stay and watch Thurs. morning - I WILL. I'm a realist (some folks say that's a pessimist as well) and I'm concerned about the damage to the valve stem at the bag as well and will voice that concern when I take it back. Regarding the bag removal - paid them to install at the same time as the coils so they wouldn't have to squeeze them between mounted coils. Their problem - not mine. Documenting all of this in case I've got a warranty issue.

 

[Scamper]

Brent,

As others and AirLift have noted, the tap is supposed to point down and thru the hole in the spring mount. Yes...AirLift says make it 3/4, but as I started to place drill bit to mount, I realised that no matter how well I worked at it, I would never get that hole to be as smooth as the factory hole (I was worried about abrassion damage)...so I punted and decided not to drill. After trying to route the tubing thru that hole ('bout 1/2 inch has you noted), I came to the conclusion that the reason they call for a 3/4 inch hole is becuase when you put the clamp on the tubing/fitting, it can be tight to get it all properly located in the spring, with the tubing and barb going thru that hole all the way. In other words, you don't want that bag to be supported by the hose/clamp above the level of the hole/mount, you want it to go completely thru the hole with the bag resting on the mount.

Can't believe they installed them upside down...the instructions couldn't be more clear. If you have not yet taken it back to the jerks to have them correct things, I'd check to be sure they removed the secondary springs/bump stops from the top... One reason for a leak could be if you hit a sever bump that forced those secondary springs/stops into the inflated bag, you could have damaged the bag at the barb/tubing connection.

Hope it works out for you...I'm loving mine.

Tom

PS: just one more reason to do these things yourself!

 

[Brentbba]

Scamper - necessary to remove the secondary springs/bump stops?? Detailed instructions from Airlift only mention that for Heep Liberty.

Will definetly discuss the size of the hole and the absolute need for deburring if they enlarge the hole. I had planned on this anyway.

Bags were great while the had pressure. D'oh!

Thx.

 

[Scamper]

Yup. At least in the instructions I got with mine, which I suspect differ a tad from what you got, even though they're both 1000 series for LCs... They're only held in by a single bolt thru the center...easy to remove after taking the spring out (which themselves are easy to remove).

Funny that you got instructions for a Liberty. Mine looked pretty specific, even had the exact picture of the bump stop looking all like one of those Italian cream horn pastries in the diagram

Tom

 

[scottm]

I also got heap liberty instructions, and the 35 psi limit. Perhaps the LC version has the 25 psi limit?

I don't think you could get them in with the fitting up without taking out the bumpstop.

 

[Scamper]

You very well might be able to install with the bump stops-there's a fair bit of room above them.

I downloaded the instructions for my '97LC from AirLift and I can confirm it says 25psi. Be happy to post the instructions if I only knew how to upload a PDF file...

However, in reading all the other materials on their site, I see that they rate the 1000 series to 100psi !!! So no matter wether we're using 25 or 35psi as our max...the bags will survive much more. I think that recommended max is provided for a specific spring rate designed for the particular application and has nothing to do with what the bags are capable of.

Tom

 

[scottm]

My airbags fill the springs, and the bumpstops I took out came nearly halfway down the springs, IIRC.

100psi limit sounds excellent, they look tough enough to handle that.

 

[IdahoDoug]

My bumpstops also came down at least halfway into the coils. The coils are now filled with the bags, so no way to have both. I suspect they damaged the airlines in some way by having them come out the top. Yet another reason for a DIY approach. It must be frustrating to pay people to screw up your stuff, and I'm not joking - just shakin' my head.

DougM

 

[ppc]

More than likely they removed the bump stops and routed the air line up through the threaded hole. I doubt if it was drilled out larger. I would guess that the line was damaged moving through the hole during normal suspension movement. There is a good chance the hose barbs are damaged on the bags themselves. I would insist on seeing them during the repair process. The hose can be clipped off above the barb and heated to be removed without further damaging the barb. The hose is going to be to short to install from the bottom so I would demand they replace all of the hoses.

 

[Brentbba]

Doug - agree - all I can do is make them do the job right.

PPC - I'm absolutely going to look at the bags themselves and if they need to replace the hoses, that's THEIR tough shiat. They routed the hoses poorly the first time - too close to the exhaust on the PS and I'm going to point that out also!

I can download the PDF from Airlift myself and see if it's more LC specific. I suspect the 60728 used on the LC's may be the same Airlift model used on the Heep Liberty.

Take her back Thurs. morning and am staying while they disassemble. Also going to have them put the 'T' in so I have a single valve. I see no reason at all to have the dual valves for my purposes.

 

[scottm]

[quote author=Brentbba link=board=2;threadid=17483;start=msg171215#msg171215 date=1086709494]I see no reason at all to have the dual valves for my purposes.[/quote]

You get lift from having air bags, you get stability from having them separate. It's nice not dragging my bumper and having the headlights properly adjusted, but stability is the main benefit to me. There's a big difference with a heavily loaded rooftop carrier in gusty crosswinds or swerving to avoid something on the highway.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Not surprisingly I agree with Scott completely. Don't hook them to a single air valve. Doing so diminishes the handling and safety benefits by at least 50% in my opinion. On a sustained curve, the outside airbag will transfer considerable air to the inside one. You'd completely give up the side to side leveling and will feel it on a crowned road and many other situations.

DougM

 

[Brentbba]

Well, was back in this morning. Both valves on the bagswere skewed slightly as the top hole is off center as well. We all agreed that in that bent over position, that's what was probably causing the leak. They convinced me that leaving the valve up top was better as routing of the air lines to the valves was more out of the way than thru the bottom hole.
BTW - the bottom hole is off center as well. As I have no plans to put bump stops back in, I gave the OK to drill out and deburr the top hole to center it.

First time they let the cruiser back down there was a definite leak that was audible. They hadn't seated the valve up into the drilled hole and when the bag seated itself, the valve bent over like it had been before. DUH! The put it back up, properly seated the valve into the hole before dropping the cruiser and no leaks were audible. Put 30psi into each bag. Yes, based on great feedback on single vs dual valves, I left the dual valves. Reasoning made all the sense in the world to me. Will check pressures tonight and every night for awhile to check work this time. We'll see.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Do they have a thick black plastic disc atop the springs that has a hole in the center? Also, I think they should have run the air lines out the bottom as intended.

DougM

 

[Brentbba]

Bags are holding pressure as of this morning. Maybe the third time was the charm.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Brent,

You should clarify their warranty IN WRITING as to this install. I don't want to go into it too much, but it's not going to last long before you're leaking again - they're freaking upside down.

DougM

 

[scottm]

I was only concerned with water collecting in them if upside down, but I guess tires don't fill with water so maybe that's not such a concern. I considered putting them upside down in my Sienna because the hose came out exposed to the world under the suspension. Why do you think they'd leak?

Aren't you supposed to be out on a boat waiting for my phone call....?

 

[IdahoDoug]

What I think will happen is the air bag will periodically hang from the hose assembly and/or the hose will chafe in and out of the upper hole during longer suspension movements. They wanted it out the bottom for a reason. Also, my question about the plastic disc went unanswered, and I believe this is an anti chafe strategy for the hose/valve which gravity would keep down at the bottom of the spring when properly installed. Dunno for sure obviously.

The boat's set to go, but the weather's slightly cool. We've become picky fair weather boaters for day trips as we have so much nice weather to choose from. On a longer trip we go no matter the weather, but when you can choose like this....

I was just going to call you, so I'll do it now.

DougM

 

[scottm]

Yeah, I didn't think of the chafing issue. Especially with his longer springs, the airbag will compress to the top and hang by the hose often. Maybe the hose barb will go back into the hole on compression, maybe not, ouch!