Air Filter preference
- Thread starter Doobie10
- Start date
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OEM filters much better than K&N
I had bad experiences with K&N and glad to see a turbo fan actually talk bat against K&N too. Turbos tend to consume allot of air by nature, allot more than a normal engine normally uses.
DMX
for stock airbox stay with the denso OEM filter.
2001LC
SILVER Star
My TCL came with a K&N when I bought it, I've put 40,000 miles on, i cleaned it three times which is more than recommeneded. I get 17mpg city driving, dropping to 15.5mpg when the winter blend fuel comes out, in the mile high city. The spark plugs looked great at 92,000 miles. It seems to work good, its' important not to over oil the filter or you may get oil on the sensor which cost ~ $500.00 to replace, I've been told. I would have to get a dealer filter and run it for a year to see if theirs' any difference in mpg.
I've run K&N's for the last 15 years or so. All of my vehicles run them without any issues.
To dispell some of the negative claims about K&N's letting dirt get through, I started smearing a thin layer of clear grease on the inside of the intake tubing (just a small area). I've never found any discoloring or grit on this grease.
As for performance increases, it's probably a little but not earth shattering. I like the ability to clean and re-use a perfectly good filter. They have saved me a lot of money over their lifespans.
my .02
Adam
To dispell some of the negative claims about K&N's letting dirt get through, I started smearing a thin layer of clear grease on the inside of the intake tubing (just a small area). I've never found any discoloring or grit on this grease.
As for performance increases, it's probably a little but not earth shattering. I like the ability to clean and re-use a perfectly good filter. They have saved me a lot of money over their lifespans.
my .02
Adam
+1
I used K&N for over 10 years on a few different cars and have just positive results.
If you really want to know how your air filter is doing, send a sample of your oil to Blackstone.
I don’t think a K&N is all that bad for a street car. Its when you are in dirty areas when it really becomes a big problem.
Do you see any dirt roads?
DMX
I don’t think a K&N is all that bad for a street car. Its when you are in dirty areas when it really becomes a big problem.
Do you see any dirt roads?
DMX
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that is a valid argument DMX for the aftermarket intake kits that K&N sells. For the drop-in filters the paper/k&n see the exact same amount of dirty air.
agomez
Frijoles
paper always works well the other stuff is hype....
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Here in the desert, the air can get pretty dusty, especially in the south part of town where I work. I find I have to change the OEM toyota filter on my DD 4runner about every 6 months. I would never even consider any of those oiled filters; you'd be cleaning them all the time. OTOH, in places like the Pacific Northwest, the air is so dust-free that you could probably run no air filter at all. Since the 100 is designed for and has been tested in desert dust & heat, I'm confident that the OEM filter is more than adequate.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Hi Adam,
Do you drive much on dusty roads?
Do they sand your roads in the winter when it snows?
How long did you run the grease on the intake tube, weeks years?
I been thinking about cleaning my throttle body, as I notice is was pretty tarnished when i did my timing belt. I would like to compare with a 100,000 mile TLC or LX to see if any differences.
Has anybody runing paper filters with about 100,000 miles looked in their throttle body?
2001LC
With K&N filter
I ran a TRD filter in my tundra a couple of years with no ill effects. Then on one cleaning I got too much oil on it and ended up having to clean the MAF sensor as my mileage suddenly dropped dramatically. I never saw any advantage in mileage or power. However, it sounded much louder. I discarded it after that.
True, they do see the same amount of dirt, however the K&N will allow more dirt to get in – by design. This is to increase horsepower. Engines are large air pumps and if you restrict air in (or out) it holds the potential HP down.
Other wise we all would use hepa filters. We all know there is nothing better than a good hepa filter, but hepa filters are restrictive and will hurt hp ratings & economy.
There is only two ways to increase airflow. Increase physical size of the filter eliminates.
(Pleats help to increase square inches)
Or lessen the filtration ability.
So take your pick.
The argument is the oil will catch the dirt. Well it helps. But the large openings in the gaze still will let dirt by. Notice how K&N say the more dirt that is on the filter the better it filters?
No stock air filter makes that claim? Should they?
Run the K&N long enough it will filter as good as a stock filter!
Using K& N’s idea, a dirty stock filter = hepa.
Partly BS/hype - they claim it flows more air, and that it does.
At the cost of good filtration. Not only that, but the physical size of the K&N is much smaller than OEM DENSO filters.
That's an 80 series just for comparison purposes.
and a nice K&N bashing thread. Enjoy!
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=114774
In the past 12 years, I've lived in Oregon, Texas, Colorado, Virginia, Colorado (2nd time) and now Ohio.
That pretty much covers the climates of the U.S. so I've seen my fair share of salt, sand and dust. After a week of solid off-roading in Moab, with my Jeep, the K&N looks pretty nasty on the outside, but it is as clean as can be on the inside which tell me it's working. I just cleaned two of my K&N's this past weekend so I clearly remember what they looked like.
I'm an engineer by trade, I wouldn't run them if they didn't work and keep the dirt out. There are a lot of naysayers out there, but I've done my homework on this one and I'll be keeping mine.
I learned long ago to only believe half of what people tell you. It's up to you to figure out which half to believe.
I'm not sure what OEM filters cost, and I'm sure they do a great job (they are Toyota after all), but I'm also confident that K&N's will save me money in the long run and will do just as good of a job.
As for the concern about oil contamination, I don't keep oil beyond 4000 miles before changing it out. I'm not a big fan of extended oil changes and I've never had an engine related failure in over 500,000 miles of driving in my vehicles. I tend to keep them up to and beyond 200,000 miles before getting something new.
As an aside, here is a list of vehicles I've had K&N's on:
81 Subaru Sedan (real chick getter) Drove it to 187,000 miles. I started autocrossing it and took the heads off to inspect the pistons. I could still see original cross hatching on all 4 cyclinder bores at 181,000 miles. This is why I'm a big fan of frequent oil changes. I changed oil every 2500 miles and drove the tar out of this car from age 16-27. I then loaned it to my brother and he trashed it.
1991 Honda Accord, Sold at 191,000 miles to get the LC
1984 Toytoa Turbo Diesel PU 220,000 miles
2001 Jeep Wrangler 81,000 miles
1999 Toyota LC 89,000miles
Adam
That pretty much covers the climates of the U.S. so I've seen my fair share of salt, sand and dust. After a week of solid off-roading in Moab, with my Jeep, the K&N looks pretty nasty on the outside, but it is as clean as can be on the inside which tell me it's working. I just cleaned two of my K&N's this past weekend so I clearly remember what they looked like.
I'm an engineer by trade, I wouldn't run them if they didn't work and keep the dirt out. There are a lot of naysayers out there, but I've done my homework on this one and I'll be keeping mine.
I learned long ago to only believe half of what people tell you. It's up to you to figure out which half to believe.
I'm not sure what OEM filters cost, and I'm sure they do a great job (they are Toyota after all), but I'm also confident that K&N's will save me money in the long run and will do just as good of a job.
As for the concern about oil contamination, I don't keep oil beyond 4000 miles before changing it out. I'm not a big fan of extended oil changes and I've never had an engine related failure in over 500,000 miles of driving in my vehicles. I tend to keep them up to and beyond 200,000 miles before getting something new.
As an aside, here is a list of vehicles I've had K&N's on:
81 Subaru Sedan (real chick getter) Drove it to 187,000 miles. I started autocrossing it and took the heads off to inspect the pistons. I could still see original cross hatching on all 4 cyclinder bores at 181,000 miles. This is why I'm a big fan of frequent oil changes. I changed oil every 2500 miles and drove the tar out of this car from age 16-27. I then loaned it to my brother and he trashed it.
1991 Honda Accord, Sold at 191,000 miles to get the LC
1984 Toytoa Turbo Diesel PU 220,000 miles
2001 Jeep Wrangler 81,000 miles
1999 Toyota LC 89,000miles
Adam
wait wait wait......i just buy new K&N filters because im too lazy to clean them, am i doing something wrong here?
In the past 12 years, I've lived in Oregon, Texas, Colorado, Virginia, Colorado (2nd time) and now Ohio.
That pretty much covers the climates of the U.S. so I've seen my fair share of salt, sand and dust. After a week of solid off-roading in Moab, with my Jeep, the K&N looks pretty nasty on the outside, but it is as clean as can be on the inside which tell me it's working. I just cleaned two of my K&N's this past weekend so I clearly remember what they looked like.
I'm an engineer by trade, I wouldn't run them if they didn't work and keep the dirt out. There are a lot of naysayers out there, but I've done my homework on this one and I'll be keeping mine.
I learned long ago to only believe half of what people tell you. It's up to you to figure out which half to believe.
I'm not sure what OEM filters cost, and I'm sure they do a great job (they are Toyota after all), but I'm also confident that K&N's will save me money in the long run and will do just as good of a job.
As for the concern about oil contamination, I don't keep oil beyond 4000 miles before changing it out. I'm not a big fan of extended oil changes and I've never had an engine related failure in over 500,000 miles of driving in my vehicles. I tend to keep them up to and beyond 200,000 miles before getting something new.
As an aside, here is a list of vehicles I've had K&N's on:
81 Subaru Sedan (real chick getter) Drove it to 187,000 miles. I started autocrossing it and took the heads off to inspect the pistons. I could still see original cross hatching on all 4 cyclinder bores at 181,000 miles. This is why I'm a big fan of frequent oil changes. I changed oil every 2500 miles and drove the tar out of this car from age 16-27. I then loaned it to my brother and he trashed it.
1991 Honda Accord, Sold at 191,000 miles to get the LC
1984 Toytoa Turbo Diesel PU 220,000 miles
2001 Jeep Wrangler 81,000 miles
1999 Toyota LC 89,000miles
Adam
I see K&N has saved you some money in all the filters you would have had to replace, and you only needed to clean them 11.62 times total between all vehicles. I wasn’t want suggesting the oil test for an extended oil change, but to see how much dirt is getting in you oil. After your trip to Moab would have been a good test. It’s defiantly a good thing that you change it regularly.
BTW I found this jeep guy on the web, he seems impressed with his K&N.
Two of my rigs runs conical filters that clamp around a tube. With the LC, I'm using the drop in filter. As for the guy with the jeep, it's hard to say what his problem is. Could be improper installation of the drop in, i.e. not properly seated or ???
With as much dust as he was showing inside the tube, the front side of the filter should have been black. It looks properly oiled based on the color.
I'm pretty impressed with how much gunk builds up on the exterior of the filter. I clean mine at least yearly, if not sooner if they start to get dirty. Mine are all clean right now. I wish I'd taken a picture before I cleaned them.
Adam
With as much dust as he was showing inside the tube, the front side of the filter should have been black. It looks properly oiled based on the color.
I'm pretty impressed with how much gunk builds up on the exterior of the filter. I clean mine at least yearly, if not sooner if they start to get dirty. Mine are all clean right now. I wish I'd taken a picture before I cleaned them.
Adam
