Aftermarket wheels with tapered/conical lug nuts - too little thread engagement? (1 Viewer)

[HRTROB]

To those with aftermarket wheels using conical lug nuts, how many turns does it take before the lug nut stops when turning by hand? I only have 5 turns in the front and around 7 and a half turns in the rear. Doesn't seem to be enough thread engagement in the front. It also doesn't look like an extended tapered/conical "ET" lug nut would fit through the bolt holes my wheels. Thoughts?

 

[UCrazyKid]

Get longer wheel studs.

 

[unklwedy]

Typical minimum thread engagement for nuts is one diameter of stud. You should also make sure conical surfaces of rim and lug nut are same.

 

[linuxgod]

Not sure about your wheels but I believe you need 7 threads to have 100% holding force. If you're only able to rotate 5 times you need longer threads or different wheels

 

[HRTROB]

Still waiting for the others with aftermarket wheels with tapered nuts to chime in. The wheels I have were made specifically for the 200 that's why I find it weird that it would have insuffiecient thread engagement.

 

[linuxgod]

I have aftermarket wheels (17" Icon Six Speed) with 60 degree tapered acorn-style lug nuts. I have not used the ET nuts. It's 16F out today so I'm not pulling lugs off to check until it warms up but the rear threads sound correct (7.5 turns) but the fronts look and sound short (5 turns). Maybe someone in sunny California can visually confirm for you.

That said I have found with the conical lugs I can hand tighten several turns initially and then if I push on the tire and tighten in a star pattern I get another 1-2 turns of the lugs. As a bonus it better centers the wheel, so that when I do the final torquing they are correctly balanced.

 

[gaijin]

Still waiting for the others with aftermarket wheels with tapered nuts to chime in. The wheels I have were made specifically for the 200 that's why I find it weird that it would have insuffiecient thread engagement.

Just for you, @HRTROB ...

On my 17" TRD wheels, made by Toyota for the Tundra, Land Cruiser and Sequoia, I removed one lug nut from my Right Front wheel to see what the thread engagement looks like.

These wheels use a conical nut which mates with a conical lug surface:

With four of the lug nuts torqued to spec (97 lb-ft), this is what the exposed thread on the remaining lug looks like (if you look closely, you can see 8 full threads that exhibit engagement with the nut):

Again, with four of the five lug nuts torqued to spec, it took 7 3/4 turns from initial thread engagement until the nut contacted the wheel. Another 1/4 turn brought the nut to specified torque (97 lb-ft).

So ... with my wheels it takes 8 full turns to torque a nut.

I agree with @linuxgod that your rears look OK at 7 1/2 turns, but those fronts are definitely too short.

HTH

 

[HRTROB]

Just for you, @HRTROB ...

On my 17" TRD wheels, made by Toyota for the Tundra, Land Cruiser and Sequoia, I removed one lug nut from my Right Front wheel to see what the thread engagement looks like.

These wheels use a conical nut which mates with a conical lug surface:

With four of the lug nuts torqued to spec (97 lb-ft), this is what the exposed thread on the remaining lug looks like (if you look closely, you can see 8 full threads that exhibit engagement with the nut):

Again, with four of the five lug nuts torqued to spec, it took 7 3/4 turns from initial thread engagement until the nut contacted the wheel. Another 1/4 turn brought the nut to specified torque (97 lb-ft).

So ... with my wheels it takes 8 full turns to torque a nut.

I agree with @linuxgod that your rears look OK at 7 1/2 turns, but those fronts are definitely too short.

HTH

Thank you for the info! Looks like I need longer studs, at least for the front. Could you also check the thread engagement on the rear if you get the chance? I checked online and found that the front and rear studs share the similar part number from 12/2007 all the way to the current model

 

[RS6tofj80]

those rims look to be Volks so unless they laft the "pad" thicker then standard and you are using the correct lugs they should fit.... I got roughly 7 1/2 on mine ( albeit I'm using spacers so it's double the complexity)

E

 

[jginca]

I have the Evo Course wheel and the same problem. Not pretty but here is my solution. Extended Thread Lug Nuts | All-Pro Off Road

 

[HRTROB]

I have the Evo Course wheel and the same problem. Not pretty but here is my solution. Extended Thread Lug Nuts | All-Pro Off Road

I thought about using ET lug nuts but the holes on my wheels appear too small for them. Did you have to re-bore the holes on your wheels?

those rims look to be Volks so unless they laft the "pad" thicker then standard and you are using the correct lugs they should fit.... I got roughly 7 1/2 on mine ( albeit I'm using spacers so it's double the complexity)

E

Yup they are Volks. Could it be that your spacer is a bolt-on unit with longer studs for wheels? If so, that may be an option for me. How thick is your spacer? Attached is a photo of the nuts I am using which should work fine with my wheels.

 

[linuxgod]

I would not bore out the wheels. They have a 60 degree taper in order to ensure correct centering. If you widen the lug bores you reduce the contact area for the tapered nuts and if your bore is not perfect you risk the wheel mis-centering, which will make your ride feel permanently unbalanced.

Are your front discs original? I'm wondering if there was a brake job done at some point and the new rotors have a different thickness in the center which is making your lugs "shorter"

 

[HRTROB]

I would not bore out the wheels. They have a 60 degree taper in order to ensure correct centering. If you widen the lug bores you reduce the contact area for the tapered nuts and if your bore is not perfect you risk the wheel mis-centering, which will make your ride feel permanently unbalanced.

Are your front discs original? I'm wondering if there was a brake job done at some point and the new rotors have a different thickness in the center which is making your lugs "shorter"

Front discs are still original according to my dad who was the first owner. It looks like I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem. This guy only got 4.5 turns in the front and 6.5 in the rear when he put on Method wheels:

Wheel stud length? 2016 LX w/ Method wheels

You're right about the danger in re-boring the wheels. Too risky.

Next option is longer wheel studs. Easier said than done - I've been searching all day for longer wheel studs and have come up empty. Nobody makes longer metric studs for the 100/200.

The only other option I can think of is to install 25mm spacers only if the studs on those are longer than the stock ones. Only problem is, the studs on those spacers might be just as long as the original wheel studs

 

[jginca]

I did not have to bore them. These are the only wheel stud sI found that would work and not have to change to 9/16" - Dorman 610-331 Wheel Lug Stud

 

[HRTROB]

I did not have to bore them. These are the only wheel stud sI found that would work and not have to change to 9/16" - Dorman 610-331 Wheel Lug Stud

Would you know if the Dorman 610-331 will fit? I know the stock studs have a 16.5mm knurl while these are 16.00mm

 

[HRTROB]

Finally found longer wheel studs that will fit the 200. Kyo-Ei SBLC which appear to be 10mm longer than the stock studs. I just placed an order for 10 pieces to try out in the front. I might have to get open ended mag-seat nuts for use with the spare if these will turn out longer that the stock rears once mounted

Hub Bolt

 

[HRTROB]

Removed the wheels today and got some measurements. The front studs are only 24mm long while the rears are 27.5mm, which explains the extra 2 or so turns I got in the rear. The good news is that even with 10mm longer studs, the stock mag-seat lug nuts are deep enough and can still be used with the stock wheels. The only downside to using the longer studs is that if you want to fit a 1" spacer, you have to grind down the studs

 

[HRTROB]

Got the new wheel studs in. I can confirm that the Kyo-ei SBLC fits the 200. With the extra 10mm length, it now takes 12 1/2 turns in the front before the nut stops when turning by hand.

Made in Japan. None of that Chinese/Taiwanese crap

 

[richxd87]

were you able to press the longer studs on without taking the hub off?

 

[HRTROB]

were you able to press the longer studs on without taking the hub off?

Yes I didn't have to remove the hub, but I used the "pull" method using washers and an old lug nut. I could have pressed them in using the tie tod remover tool, but the dust shield was in the way. No way to take the dust shield off without removing the hub from the knuckle first