- Thread starter
- #61
Haha, I hear that
The wires are already through the firewall for the lights/GMRS on my truck so I don't want to have to redo that
Advice request: How to wire aux equipment (winch/lights/GMRS) to GX460 battery
- Thread starter Roody
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
The wires are already through the firewall for the lights/GMRS on my truck so I don't want to have to redo that
Could you explain to me how a buss bar is any better than simply stacking the wires one on top of each other on a longer battery bolt? Either way you have to have each wire individually fused, and each wire individually terminated in a ring terminal. To remove any one wire for any reason you would have to undo one bolt on either design. In my mind the benefit of the longer bolt to the battery terminal is simplicity of installation, cost, and vertical stacking of wiring which makes for a smaller footprint. I see no real advantage to a buss bar except keeping the connections individually organized which has never been a concern for me.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
Theoretically its the same. The difference being is you know everything is seeing the same voltage on a busbar. If you start stacking connectors and don't have good contact you will start introducing impedance into the circuit. I wouldnt do more than a few. And if they dont stack well use copper washers in between them to make sure there is solid electrical contact.
The NEC standard for grounds for telecommunications equipment is a grounded busbars specifically for this reason. To reduce circuit interaction.
Throw some dirt or grease in there and I bet you get all sort of fun noise on your radios if they are higher up on the stack. This can introduce ground loops and s*** that are a really a bitch for a qualified electronics tech to troubleshoot beyond just reterminating everything.
I like things clean and simple. My home stereo wiring might look like s*** but I want my engine bay looking proper.
I also paid working dues for over 9 years in the IBEW. All cabling or cabling related. I finished my tenure specializing in Cisco 4500 and 6500 migrations.
So I have a lot of experience in cabling solutions. I hate ground cables. I hate making them. And I hate installing them. I got stuck grounding an automated brick assembly line, and I coughed up stuff for months afterwards.
Bad experiences as an apprentice. Which is why I am on team Pre-term for anything larger than 16 awg or anything with glass.
Last edited:
If your only goal is to reduce the amount of connections at the battery, then technically what you propose accomplishes that. But in my opinion (and it's just an opinion) it's not the best way of doing it. You're basically moving the battery junction somewhere else where it's maybe not as noticeable and looks cleaner, but at the same time you're adding extra unnecessary connections which are always going to be a potential failure point. More importantly, you're adding extra unprotected wiring which becomes a big risk if a short happens, because now the only protection you have is the inline fuses which are way down the line. The other thing I don't understand is the use of a battery isolator to prevent parasitic draws. Is that for long term storage? Unless you lift the hood to disconnect the bus bar every time you stop, I don't understand how it prevents parasitic drains.
If you just want a cleaner way of adding more terminals at the battery without having to change what you already have setup, then I'd just go with mil spec battery terminals and call it a day.
Personally, I would wire as some people have already described earlier. What you're trying to do is very common so proven solutions already exist.
1. Connect the winch through the battery isolator, with the isolator placed as close to the battery as possible. This minimizes the amount of unprotected wiring that's live, especially for heavy gauge wires like a winch. On my GX, I don't use my winch very often so I don't even have a switch on it, I just keep the positive lead disconnected unless I'm going on a trip. On my FJ, where it sees a little more but still infrequent use, I do have the winch on a heavy duty switch.
2. Use a separate circuit breaker (also placed as close to the battery as possible) and run to a junction/fuse/relay box to keep everything in one spot. No matter what type of circuit you add, you'll need a fuse for that circuit, and most likely a relay if it's higher amperage. I wouldn't buy a fuse box that doesn't include relays, because even if a circuit doesn't require it, there are other advantages to using relays.
3. Using relays allows you to only have certain circuits active when the engine is on. This can eliminate parasitic drain by automatically disconnecting everything when the engine is off. And it's easy enough to modify so you can turn on certain circuits when the engine is off. I do that when I want to keep some outlets on when camping (i.e. for phone chargers, radio, etc)
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #65
Holy s***, I am extremely overwhelmed now
Context/background: In ~2013 I wired some LEDs on my Kawasaki Brute Force and the harness that SuperbrightLEDs sent me was the wrong one, and in the middle of a long 100 mile ride the whole thing started smoking and basically tried to light itself on fire. I've been traumatized about doing wiring ever since.
Needless to say, figuring out how to wire my GX has me extremely/needlessly stressed
All I'm trying to do is find a way to take the wiring for the lights/GMRS (though @Hiluxforever said keep it on the battery) off of the battery so there are the fewest things attached to each terminal so when I have to swap batteries or the likes there aren't a whole bunch of things attached to each terminal to deal with
The bus bar method seems like the path of least resistance (pun somewhat intended), and while I would really like to do a full fuse block path it would require cutting out fuses from existing wires and that stresses me the **** out
So, I ask this with my tail between my legs, what in the hell should I do here that is simple and cost effective and doesn't make me have panic attacks?
Context/background: In ~2013 I wired some LEDs on my Kawasaki Brute Force and the harness that SuperbrightLEDs sent me was the wrong one, and in the middle of a long 100 mile ride the whole thing started smoking and basically tried to light itself on fire. I've been traumatized about doing wiring ever since.
Needless to say, figuring out how to wire my GX has me extremely/needlessly stressed
All I'm trying to do is find a way to take the wiring for the lights/GMRS (though @Hiluxforever said keep it on the battery) off of the battery so there are the fewest things attached to each terminal so when I have to swap batteries or the likes there aren't a whole bunch of things attached to each terminal to deal with
The bus bar method seems like the path of least resistance (pun somewhat intended), and while I would really like to do a full fuse block path it would require cutting out fuses from existing wires and that stresses me the **** out
So, I ask this with my tail between my legs, what in the hell should I do here that is simple and cost effective and doesn't make me have panic attacks?
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
That second link is broken.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
For myself, I like having all my 'direct to battery' connections to have their own post, hence my method.
What Hiluxforever suggested is great if you only plan on two connections.
What Hiluxforever suggested is great if you only plan on two connections.
I wouldn't stress about it. If what you have works and you're not gonna add much more wiring, I'd just leave it. Wiring is kind of personal in that everyone seems to have their own preferred method of doing it that they think is best, but as long as you follow some general guidelines everything usually works.
Personally, I don't see a need to move everything off the battery terminal, you only have 3 circuits so there's really not much advantage to separating them on individual posts, just label the wires if you can't remember what they are. The GX makes it pretty easy because you can attach everything to this post (circle in yellow) and as long as you leave enough slack in the wiring, you don't have to remove anything when changing a battery, just loosen it and let it hang the same way you have here. For the negative terminal, there's a convenient ground bolt on the fender (circled in blue) so you don't need to attach anything to the negative terminal. I would still run the winch ground directly to the bolt on the negative battery terminal. I'm kinda guessing at what your wires are but the picture below shows what I'm talking about.
I don't really like bus bars unless you have a lot of connections far away from the battery. Yes they're convenient and can keep thing organized, but as I mentioned it adds multiple unnecessary junctions and if you're not comfortable with wiring adding more connections doesn't help. Technically, adding the bus bar adds more resistance not less because every crimp, every terminal, every bolt, and every wire is added resistance. The most direct path back to the battery with the least amount of connections is always better. Also in the one you linked, even with the protective cap there's a lot of exposed metal that can short if not fused properly, and I always seem to lose the cap.
The reason I suggest adding a fuse/relay box is if you're planning on adding additional circuits. I.e. solar, outlets, radios, lights, inverters, dc chargers, etc. Running each on of those individually can quickly become overwhelming, adding a fuse/relay box makes it much easier and cleaner because most of the complicated wiring work is already done, all you need to do is connect your devices to the fuse box. In your case I don't think it's really necessary unless you have big plans in the future
Re: cutting off the inline fuses, if you're not comfortable you can leave it, but if you've ever had to work on someone else's wiring did you'll understand why they're universally hated. When the inevitably blow, you'll waste hours searching for an invisible break that's almost always hidden in some inconspicuous and hard to access place under the dash or buried in a wiring harness. Since you're the one doing the wiring, as long as you remember where they are then it's not an issue, but after some time you'll probably forget
Personally, I don't see a need to move everything off the battery terminal, you only have 3 circuits so there's really not much advantage to separating them on individual posts, just label the wires if you can't remember what they are. The GX makes it pretty easy because you can attach everything to this post (circle in yellow) and as long as you leave enough slack in the wiring, you don't have to remove anything when changing a battery, just loosen it and let it hang the same way you have here. For the negative terminal, there's a convenient ground bolt on the fender (circled in blue) so you don't need to attach anything to the negative terminal. I would still run the winch ground directly to the bolt on the negative battery terminal. I'm kinda guessing at what your wires are but the picture below shows what I'm talking about.
I don't really like bus bars unless you have a lot of connections far away from the battery. Yes they're convenient and can keep thing organized, but as I mentioned it adds multiple unnecessary junctions and if you're not comfortable with wiring adding more connections doesn't help. Technically, adding the bus bar adds more resistance not less because every crimp, every terminal, every bolt, and every wire is added resistance. The most direct path back to the battery with the least amount of connections is always better. Also in the one you linked, even with the protective cap there's a lot of exposed metal that can short if not fused properly, and I always seem to lose the cap.
The reason I suggest adding a fuse/relay box is if you're planning on adding additional circuits. I.e. solar, outlets, radios, lights, inverters, dc chargers, etc. Running each on of those individually can quickly become overwhelming, adding a fuse/relay box makes it much easier and cleaner because most of the complicated wiring work is already done, all you need to do is connect your devices to the fuse box. In your case I don't think it's really necessary unless you have big plans in the future
Re: cutting off the inline fuses, if you're not comfortable you can leave it, but if you've ever had to work on someone else's wiring did you'll understand why they're universally hated. When the inevitably blow, you'll waste hours searching for an invisible break that's almost always hidden in some inconspicuous and hard to access place under the dash or buried in a wiring harness. Since you're the one doing the wiring, as long as you remember where they are then it's not an issue, but after some time you'll probably forget
Last edited:
I've worn many hats over the years. Once every 6 days during Desert Storm I wore this hat on board the Aircraft Carrier USS America
The only way to put out a Class Charlie fire (electrical) is to secure the power, you have to kill the current. In the video of the jeep he said that he thought he had it for awhile then it started burning again. Doesn't matter what extinguishing agent you are using, it is going to happen until you disconnect the battery or the wiring burns through creating a break in the short.
Most heavy equipment comes with battery disconnects sometimes with remote operation in the cab, simple as a T handle or more expensive electromechanical disconnects. They all have one thing in common they disconnect the negative terminal. Never seen one on the positive terminal however the Blue Sea looks stout enough.
You can pick up a quick battery disconnect for relatively cheap that sit on the negative post. Most common and cheapest is a hand screw it only takes a few turns to disconnect. However if your electrical components are grounded to the frame and not the negative terminal obviously that will not work as an electrical isolation switch for those circuits. Some of the cutouts have a fused bypass wire to keep feeding the ECU memory when disconnected but if I was going to install one I would want an all or nothing cutoff.
Polaris came out the Pulse Bar just for that reason. People were electrically overloading their RZR rigs especially in the SW with lots of lighting, subs and heavy draw equipment. Guessing alcohol was often involved as well. Social Media was full of pictures of "My Polaris caught on Fire!" What they never said was it was my own fault. In 2018 when I got my first Ranger it had the then new Pulse Bar system and so does my new Trail Boss. You don't read about the Polaris rigs catching on fire so much anymore but of course someone is always going to defeat the built in system and do it their own way. Because they always have done it that way.
The Pulse Bar is actually a Bus Bar with quick disconnects. Just saying...
$149 for this and comes with almost everything you need.
auxbeam.com
By the time you buy terminals, cable, bus bar, etc, you'll easily spend $149.
AS Series 4 Gang (AS-R40) RGB Slim Switch Panel, Toggle/ Momentary/ Pulsed Mode Supported(One-Sided Outlet)
Off Road Lights switch panel for truck: chevy colorado, silverado, jeep, jeep jk, jeep tj, dodge ram truck, ford f150 f250, gmc sierra, marine, boat.
auxbeam.com
By the time you buy terminals, cable, bus bar, etc, you'll easily spend $149.
Hiluxforever
SILVER Star
Thats why I use fast blow fuses and a kill switch. When using cable that you can weld with, its good to have a few extra layers of protection.I've worn many hats over the years. Once every 6 days during Desert Storm I wore this hat on board the Aircraft Carrier USS America
The only way to put out a Class Charlie fire (electrical) is to secure the power, you have to kill the current. In the video of the jeep he said that he thought he had it for awhile then it started burning again. Doesn't matter what extinguishing agent you are using, it is going to happen until you disconnect the battery or the wiring burns through creating a break in the short.
Most heavy equipment comes with battery disconnects sometimes with remote operation in the cab, simple as a T handle or more expensive electromechanical disconnects. They all have one thing in common they disconnect the negative terminal. Never seen one on the positive terminal however the Blue Sea looks stout enough.
You can pick up a quick battery disconnect for relatively cheap that sit on the negative post. Most common and cheapest is a hand screw it only takes a few turns to disconnect. However if your electrical components are grounded to the frame and not the negative terminal obviously that will not work as an electrical isolation switch for those circuits. Some of the cutouts have a fused bypass wire to keep feeding the ECU memory when disconnected but if I was going to install one I would want an all or nothing cutoff.
Polaris came out the Pulse Bar just for that reason. People were electrically overloading their RZR rigs especially in the SW with lots of lighting, subs and heavy draw equipment. Guessing alcohol was often involved as well. Social Media was full of pictures of "My Polaris caught on Fire!" What they never said was it was my own fault. In 2018 when I got my first Ranger it had the then new Pulse Bar system and so does my new Trail Boss. You don't read about the Polaris rigs catching on fire so much anymore but of course someone is always going to defeat the built in system and do it their own way. Because they always have done it that way.
The Pulse Bar is actually a Bus Bar with quick disconnects. Just saying...
I have to watch arc flash safety videos for work and those are sobering.
- Thread starter
- #74
Yeah that's how everything was hooked up already, straight to the posts you circled. If I were to do the fuse/relay box, would it necessitate removing the inline fuses? & if I want to remove them, what's the process for this like?
I don't really intend to add anything else other than maybe a chase light. No solar, no more lights up front, etc. Maybe a cooler down the road once my kids are old enough for longer adventures (still have a few years before this) but that's a whole different project.
I remember reading about the Pulse Bar when they launched it. You're saying a bus bar is safe to use if it's done properly?I've worn many hats over the years. Once every 6 days during Desert Storm I wore this hat on board the Aircraft Carrier USS America
The only way to put out a Class Charlie fire (electrical) is to secure the power, you have to kill the current. In the video of the jeep he said that he thought he had it for awhile then it started burning again. Doesn't matter what extinguishing agent you are using, it is going to happen until you disconnect the battery or the wiring burns through creating a break in the short.
Most heavy equipment comes with battery disconnects sometimes with remote operation in the cab, simple as a T handle or more expensive electromechanical disconnects. They all have one thing in common they disconnect the negative terminal. Never seen one on the positive terminal however the Blue Sea looks stout enough.
You can pick up a quick battery disconnect for relatively cheap that sit on the negative post. Most common and cheapest is a hand screw it only takes a few turns to disconnect. However if your electrical components are grounded to the frame and not the negative terminal obviously that will not work as an electrical isolation switch for those circuits. Some of the cutouts have a fused bypass wire to keep feeding the ECU memory when disconnected but if I was going to install one I would want an all or nothing cutoff.
Polaris came out the Pulse Bar just for that reason. People were electrically overloading their RZR rigs especially in the SW with lots of lighting, subs and heavy draw equipment. Guessing alcohol was often involved as well. Social Media was full of pictures of "My Polaris caught on Fire!" What they never said was it was my own fault. In 2018 when I got my first Ranger it had the then new Pulse Bar system and so does my new Trail Boss. You don't read about the Polaris rigs catching on fire so much anymore but of course someone is always going to defeat the built in system and do it their own way. Because they always have done it that way.
The Pulse Bar is actually a Bus Bar with quick disconnects. Just saying...
New terminals were $20 (already put on the truck), bus bar I have saved is $~$30, cables for bus bar to battery are ~$25. All in would be like <$75. It's not a huge difference vs the Auxbeam, but it's not nothing. My main issue with going the Auxbeam route is I already have everything wired into the cabin and on its own dedicated switch and as such no need for the controller that comes with it, making that part of the spend useless/redundant. I haven't been able to find a clear answer about whether the fuse/relay box that comes with it can be used without actually incorporating the controller, but maybe knowing that would help clear things up.$149 for this and comes with almost everything you need.
AS Series 4 Gang (AS-R40) RGB Slim Switch Panel, Toggle/ Momentary/ Pulsed Mode Supported(One-Sided Outlet)
Off Road Lights switch panel for truck: chevy colorado, silverado, jeep, jeep jk, jeep tj, dodge ram truck, ford f150 f250, gmc sierra, marine, boat.
By the time you buy terminals, cable, bus bar, etc, you'll easily spend $149.
You can do it without an Auxbeam, but it requires you to DIY the whole build. You are basically re-creating the integrated switch/relay box that the Auxbeam has, and using your own switches instead of their panel. I did this for my rig, in the end it will cost you more than the Auxbeam and be more work. But, I certainly like having OEM-style switches that look like they belong in the rig instead of a tacky add-on solution like an Auxbeam or Switch Pros is.
Here is what I would recommend for a DIY system option:
1. Short heavy gauge cable (10+ gauge) leading off the battery directly to a circuit breaker or fusible link. This is what you are lacking right now. Since you have un-fused leads running some distance off the battery, any short on those leads will arc out and have an elevated risk of starting a fire. The only way to stop such a fire will be to manually disconnect the battery while the fire is occurring (if you can accomplish this, it may burn your hand). The circuit breaker/link avoids this by automatically disconnecting the battery based on a high current load, which indicates a ongoing short.
2. More heavy cable leading from the breaker/link to a sealed box that includes one fuse for each accessory, along with a relay. You can be an "all in" box with an integrated bus bar, or get them separately and build it on a mounting plate (what I did). Here is a "all-in" box for $25, but you'd still need to get a circuit breaker and place it between the battery and the relay/fuse box: https://www.amazon.com/DaierTek-Pre-wired-Waterproof-Universal-Automotive/dp/B0CP56SXNT?tag=ihco-20
3. Wires from your in-cab switches will go to the sealed box. These are just the "trigger wires" that activate the relay and then feed power to your accessory. You should be using relays (which use something like 0.1 a of current), as opposed to routing all of the accessory current through the switch. This again reduces the consequences of a short occurring in the cabin. You still need to power your switches however, I have most of mine powered by yet another relay that's activate when the ignition is on.
4. Hot wires will go from the relays to the accessory. When you turn on the switch, the relay activates, and current goes though your accessory via these wires.
5. All connections should be water tight (i.e., heat shrink connectors), everything should be double-insulated. The latter can be accomplished by putting the wires in sheathing or wrapping them in tape. This reduces the potential for them to rub on something and short out.
If you are going to DIY this, I've had good luck with Haisstronica heat-shrink connectors and their crimper pliers from Amazon. I've used hundreds and hundreds and they are much better than what I can buy locally. You'd also want a good pair of strippers, I have a pair of Klein strippers I got at Lowe's that are awesome.
If you add individual protection upstream of the inline fuses and don’t want to worry about removing the fuse holders, simply replace the inline fuses with substantially higher amperage than your new, primary protection.
That should prevent having a hidden, redundant fuse blowing and wouldn’t require reworking that part of the wiring.
As long as you have enough excess wire to reach the fuse/relay box, you could literally just cut off the inline fuse and attach the wire directly. Or do what mtnco said and just replace them with much higher amp ones.
Since I'm in the middle of rewiring my jeep, I just happen to have all my wiring stuff out and layed it out.
This is a mockup of your current/proposed setup.
Battery Terminal ------> Bus Bar------->Inline Fuses. There's only 3 circuits on here, but you can imagine as you start adding more it's going to get even messier. The issue with this setup is everything outlined in red is always hot, which means a short in any of those areas is going to cause a problem because the only things that's going to stop it is if something melts. And with large gauge wire your car will probably burn down before the wire breaks.
Below is the setup described by rednexus and his post is a really good general guide if you choose to rewire your accessories.
Battery Terminal----->Circuit Breaker------->Fuse box
Notice the only hot wire is the one between the battery terminal and circuit breaker. Everything else downstream is protected by either the circuit breaker or the fuses. The important thing is to keep the circuit breaker as close as possible to the battery terminal to minimize the length of unprotected wire. If you look back at all the pictures in the beginning of this thread, you'll notice all of them have a fuse or breaker as close to the battery terminal as possible, in some cases right on top of the terminal. That minimizes the risk of shorts. Even if you choose not to change your wiring, I would add a circuit breaker and then connect all your loads on to it, that will at least protect you from shorts with a minimal amount of work.
The fuse/relay box has 12 circuits, 8 constant (blue wires) and 4 switched (yellow wires) in a much more compact and clean layout than having inline fuses and relays. One wire supplies power to all of the fuses and relays. So in the future all you need to do is connect your accessories, you don't have to worry about anything else. Plus all the fuses are in one place which makes troubleshooting much easier.
I suggested getting a combination fuse/relay box because anything with higher wattage is going to require a relay. It's also much more versatile and gives you a lot more options to customize things the way you want. You can have your accessories running on constant power if you want to keep them on while the engine is off (i.e. solar/fridges/power outlets/etc.) Or you can have them on switched power that's automatically shuts them off when the engine is off. Things like lights/radios/dual battery chargers/etc. Or you can easily modify the wiring to be able to switch between the two.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #78
All, thank you so much for the amazing and enormous amount of info and help. I need some time to process and digest this. Hoping to come up with a plan by EOW and will circle back to see what everyone thinks.
- Thread starter
- #79
Ok, so is this what I should be using to connect the Blue Sea 6006 on/off switch to the battery?
4 AWG Battery Cable 4 Gauge Battery Wires with 3/8 terminals Power Inverter Cables for Solar Boat Marine RV Car (3FT, 1 red+1 black cable)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BRZT23PL/?tag=ihco-20
Or should I use 2 AWG?
4 AWG Battery Cable 4 Gauge Battery Wires with 3/8 terminals Power Inverter Cables for Solar Boat Marine RV Car (3FT, 1 red+1 black cable)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BRZT23PL/?tag=ihco-20
Or should I use 2 AWG?
I've seen websites that have charts on what size (AWG) wire for what voltage/wattage/amperage outputs. I looked that up when I chose 1 AWG to run from my battery back to the 3k watt inverter I have in the back.