Advice before Purchase (2 Viewers)

[richardreams]

Hey everyone. So, I'm totally new to this forum (learned about it from a guy I almost bought a LX from). Anyway, I'm looking at an 80-series but it doesn't currently run. Here's the description from the current owner - "At some point it got a fueling problem and would not get fuel. I sought the help of a mechanic to get the car running again. Now, it starts and idles smoothly. However, it has difficulty revving up, which I suspect is due to a fuel issue. We were able to confirm that there is spark , but no fuel. To address this, an aftermarket fuel pump relay was wired in using a toggle switch. When the toggle switch is turned on, the car starts and idles great, but it does not rev up properly wants to die before it drives"

Any ideas on what this might be before I dive down a rabbit hole?

 

[OfficialGamings]

1FZ-FE engine im guessing.

1993-1994 VAF can cause this issue, Same as TPS Sensor.

ECT, Throttle cable, Fuel delivery itself, O2 Sensors.

How does timing look?
Spark plugs can be a good indication if its running rich or lean
The ECU is trying to run a fuel/air ratio with the information given to it.

More Information would be useful.
Engine
Year
Any codes
Where is the aftermarket fuel relay getting its source from etc.

After getting more information. Im sure a few people can make a logical decision where to start.

 

[jpoole]

I'd guess that you are looking at an earlier 1FZ with odb1 and earlier fuel injection setup but you should clarify the exact year/version as it has will have a big influence on where the issues may be. Share that info and we can share more specific feedback.

My guess is that the problems are electrical and that it's fixable but it could end up being a time consuming troubleshooting and repair process to really get things right. It could end up being a single, or simple issue(s) that you fix to make all well but that seems less likely since someone else has already given up on it and may have also monkeyed around with things which will only make getting it back to "right" that much harder.

My advice would be to dive in if you really want to own an 80 long term, it doesn't have rust, it's a great deal, you are (or want to become) good at basic automotive electrical troubleshooting/etc., AND you have a decent amount of time to spend working on this yourself. You could also find a shop / expert and have them fix it but I'm less inclined to suggest that and these types of issues can be hard to fix in short bursts of time like a shop has and easier if you work through the issues over time as you drive the rig.

Finally, I've got a friend that worked through what seemed like all of the fuel related electrical issues on his '94 and if you get deep into this I can get a list of the issues he found/fixed. Off the top of my head I think that a few of the later stage fixes were connectivity issues in the connections near the fuel pump and through the pump mounting plate/etc. as well as issues in the primary engine harness (which he rebuilt) along with a host of similar connection problems with loose connectors, damaged wires, etc. Took him years to sort it all out but it runs great now. His 80 always ran decently but never ran great or consistently and I think didn't shift over to taking feedback from the o2 sensors for years, etc. due to missing sensor signals, etc. He tried a variety of AFMs and a number of fixes that ultimately had no impact and some of the issues were intermittent which made it tough to find them. ODB1 didn't seem to make his life much easier through all of this.

To me it sounds like a fun rescue project and if you are good and lucky it may be an easy fix which would make it tempting

 

[CharlieS]

Great answers above.

The question I'd be asking myself is "Do I have the time, money, skills and inclination to take on a project with an uncertain outcome?"

These are relatively simple vehicles that can typically be fixed with enough time, effort, skill, luck and money.

I would never buy a vehicle like you describe if it was intended to be a daily use vehicle. But I would (and have) taken a flier on a vehicle like this for a project.

I have several other vehicles in the family, have a well equipped shop and like working on cars. If fixing it doesn't work out, no big deal. But everybody's situation is different.

I don't have a specific diagnosis for you on this rig. I'd break the project down into logical chunks, do systematic troubleshooting, using the (freely available) Factory Service Manual (aka FSM), searching this site for prior posts, and asking questions when you get stuck.

Good luck with whatever you end up choosing. This site is a terrific resource (definitely buy a star to help fund it... )

 

[AgentOrange]

Hey everyone. So, I'm totally new to this forum (learned about it from a guy I almost bought a LX from). Anyway, I'm looking at an 80-series but it doesn't currently run. Here's the description from the current owner - "At some point it got a fueling problem and would not get fuel. I sought the help of a mechanic to get the car running again. Now, it starts and idles smoothly. However, it has difficulty revving up, which I suspect is due to a fuel issue. We were able to confirm that there is spark , but no fuel. To address this, an aftermarket fuel pump relay was wired in using a toggle switch. When the toggle switch is turned on, the car starts and idles great, but it does not rev up properly wants to die before it drives"

Any ideas on what this might be before I dive down a rabbit hole?

Just shooting from the hip here, but if replacing the relay lets it idle, you know at least the relay was no good. If it won't rev up, I would suspect fuel pump dying is what killed the relay. Replace both and go from there.

 

[cruzinfj1]

Like @AgentOrange said, and I would do the filter also.

 

[Mark W]

A problem exists.

Person 1 perceives the problem. Based on whatever knowledge they may or may not have. They store that understanding (correct or incorrect) in their mind. They use their communications skills (good or bad) to relay a simplified and less than complete version of that perception of the problem from their memory to person 2

Person 2 interprets the communication based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof). More chance for distortions as they then store that information in their mind. Eventually they pull that information out of their memory and relay an inescapably changed version of what they received to person 3. Communication is once again needed and there is again, the opportunity for distortion of the original perception of whatever event transpired.

Person 3 interprets the communication based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof). More chance for distortions as they then store that information in their mind. Eventually they pull that information out of their memory and relay a new version of it to others via the words that they type onto the screen.

Lots and lots of people read the words and form perceptions in their minds... based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof) and memories. And everyone starts guessing and the games begin.


My point? My point is that without detailed, accurate and knowledgeable first hand observations from a source which has a decent understanding of the symptoms of the problem and all of the systems that might or might not be creating it AND accurate communications to relay the perceptions of the problem even the most skilled and knowledgeable person can do little more than guess.

There are folks in this forum who could absolutely solve this problem if it was in their hands. Some of us could very likely look the rig over and say "yep, seen this a few times, and... yep, there ya go... fixed it." With more detailed and confirmed accurate info, it would not be unreasonable or unusual to diagnose and even explain what needs to be done right here over the net. But with minimal information, being relayed through three different persons... It is heading toward unreasonable and unusual territory.

It is highly unlikely that any of us can tell you what the problem is based on the information at hand.. Especially since you do not own the vehicle and can not "try this and then try that" and factor in any feedback from the net as you tinker in your garage. More than likely the actual problem could be tossed out to you. Mixed in with a LOT of wrong answers.

If you buy this rig, in this condition, don't pay top dollar. (I would NEVER sell a vehicle in this state myself. The seller is always gonna loose money in a situation like this. I have, more than once, purchased a rig for at/under $1000 and after an hour and a $100 part had a $10,000 rig in my hands.)

It is doubtful that it is an expensive fix. It is doubtful that it is an overly complicated fix for someone who is skilled, knowledgeable and experienced with this rig and it's systems. But you are either going to need to find that someone who is close to you or you are gonna have to start the journey to become that someone.


It is a fun path to follow though.


Mark...

 

[mudgudgeon]

Any ideas on what this might be before I dive down a rabbit hole?

Way more info needed!

If everything else is too good to pass up, and is a smoking deal, maybe worth the dive.

What's your mechanical capability like? You capable of trouble shooting and repairing yourself? Or going to be relying on a shop?

These trucks are rarely cheap.
Either they are cheap and need a lot of work, or someone's done the work, and they aren't cheap.
Either way, 30year old vehicle will need a bunch of upkeep

 

[mudgudgeon]

A problem exists.

Person 1 perceives the problem. Based on whatever knowledge they may or may not have. They store that understanding (correct or incorrect) in their mind. They use their communications skills (good or bad) to relay a simplified and less than complete version of that perception of the problem from their memory to person 2

Person 2 interprets the communication based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof). More chance for distortions as they then store that information in their mind. Eventually they pull that information out of their memory and relay an inescapably changed version of what they received to person 3. Communication is once again needed and there is again, the opportunity for distortion of the original perception of whatever event transpired.

Person 3 interprets the communication based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof). More chance for distortions as they then store that information in their mind. Eventually they pull that information out of their memory and relay a new version of it to others via the words that they type onto the screen.

Lots and lots of people read the words and form perceptions in their minds... based on their knowledge and experience (or lack thereof) and memories. And everyone starts guessing and the games begin.


My point? My point is that without detailed, accurate and knowledgeable first hand observations from a source which has a decent understanding of the symptoms of the problem and all of the systems that might or might not be creating it AND accurate communications to relay the perceptions of the problem even the most skilled and knowledgeable person can do little more than guess.

There are folks in this forum who could absolutely solve this problem if it was in their hands. Some of us could very likely look the rig over and say "yep, seen this a few times, and... yep, there ya go... fixed it." With more detailed and confirmed accurate info, it would not be unreasonable or unusual to diagnose and even explain what needs to be done right here over the net. But with minimal information, being relayed through three different persons... It is heading toward unreasonable and unusual territory.

It is highly unlikely that any of us can tell you what the problem is based on the information at hand.. Especially since you do not own the vehicle and can not "try this and then try that" and factor in any feedback from the net as you tinker in your garage. More than likely the actual problem could be tossed out to you. Mixed in with a LOT of wrong answers.

If you buy this rig, in this condition, don't pay top dollar. (I would NEVER sell a vehicle in this state myself. The seller is always gonna loose money in a situation like this. I have, more than once, purchased a rig for at/under $1000 and after an hour and a $100 part had a $10,000 rig in my hands.)

It is doubtful that it is an expensive fix. It is doubtful that it is an overly complicated fix for someone who is skilled, knowledgeable and experienced with this rig and it's systems. But you are either going to need to find that someone who is close to you or you are gonna have to start the journey to become that someone.


It is a fun path to follow though.


Mark...

Yes, less words, more infos required!

 

[mudgudgeon]

I agree though, don't rely on the current owners sketchy explanation of what may or may not be wrong

 

[landtank]

Is it only me or has other people seen his logon as a porn name of “Dick Reams”

 

[mudgudgeon]

Is it only me or has other people seen his logon as a porn name of “Dick Reams”

Yeah, that or dick dreams

 

[Mark W]

Come on guys. Save that for the chat forum over in Pirates.

Mark...

 

[landtank]

Come on guys. Save that for the chat forum over in Pirates.

Mark...

Come on. I’ve been called out for Dick Bigelow American jgigalo, no Dick Reams, but still.

 

[gray rider]

At Richard: I have an 80 for sale in classified. '96 but, alsa, with 340k miles on it. I'm about 4 hours from you in WNC.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

At Richard: I have an 80 for sale in classified. '96 but, alsa, with 340k miles on it. I'm about 4 hours from you in WNC.

 

[gray rider]

@Spock: ??

 

[gray rider]