Accessory Relay / Always on power

[donco]

Donco, is that circuit fused at 80amps somewhere?

I doubt it. The fuse that would ordinarily go there for a diesel model (assumed) was not installed on mine and has been vacant since day-one. If it is fused at all upstream, it would be coming off of one of the main fuses which I haven't researched. I put a 30 A self-resetting breaker in the circuit I tapped off and only draw maybe half that much current at most, so I figure I'd have to have a dead short in my wiring for it to cause problems, it which case it would open the breaker.

 

[DMX84]

I just may relocate my wire from the battery to that location. Ill look at my situation again and decide. Thanks for finding that.
Dean

 

[CTapia]

Well, I finally got a chance to run the wires this afternoon (nothing is hooked up yet). I used an awl to punch the holes in the grommit, then a #2 philips screwdriver to enlarge them. Took some effort to get the wires started (I ran 8 gauge Ancor Marine Grade wire), but with my dad as an assistant, we got them through the firewall with no hassle.

Next, I popped off the driver side kick panel and the front and rear door sill plates. Getting the wires from the from the front door sill plate area to the rear door sill plate area was slightly trickey, but not too bad.

Next, I partially removed the rear trim plate that covers the subwoofer, the jack/tool storage area, etc. We were able to get the wires all the way to the back with a minimum amount of effort.

Right now, one end of the wires is tied off near the battery and the other end is sitting in the jack/tool storage compartment.

Next step will be to install the 12V accessory socket in the back (have the socket and the means to drill the hole for it). Then I need to either install a fuse block or figure out where to get a quick disconnect plug for 8 gauge wire (can only find them down to 12 or 10 gauge). Finally, I need to install a fuse at the battery end and connect power and ground to the battery. This stuff is all pretty simple - just need to track down a few items.

Greynolds,

Can you please take some pics along the way and a provide us with a material list once you're done? I have the ARB Fridge/Freezer and I've been wanting to tackle the project.

 

[greynolds]

Greynolds,

Can you please take some pics along the way and a provide us with a material list once you're done? I have the ARB Fridge/Freezer and I've been wanting to tackle the project.

I'll try to take some pics - won't be much on routing the wires as that's already done and I don't want to take it all apart again . I should be able to take some of installing the outlet in the back and how things get hooked up to the battery. Material list shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Landpimp]

I run(24/7) my ARB fridge off the rear dome light wiring. Just taped into the dome wiring, ran it under the headlinner and to the rear power socket.........works just fine for the fridge. Someday I will run a dedicated wire to the rear.......but this works........and takes just a few mins

 

[100 TD]

I did some more poking around in the owner's manual, turns out the circuit I tapped into is rated at 80 Amps. The schematic labels it fuse 51: "Glow" which I would assume would be for the glow-plugs in the diesel version.

I just may relocate my wire from the battery to that location. Ill look at my situation again and decide. Thanks for finding that.
Dean

If I read my Max Ellerys correctly, that position comes directly from the battery with no fuse. The ideal thing would be to buy a fuse to go in that spot, maybe a 40 or 50 amp one and take your power feed from the other side of the fuse so that the wire your are taking off is fused from that point on. You could also hang some more wires off the same point and be protected if necessary. Just a thought.

 

[DMX84]

As far as that goes, you could probably get the fuse sized you what you need.
DMX

 

[greynolds]

Figured I owe those who provided some advice an update on my little project. I got everything wired up a couple of weekends ago. I currently have the following setup:

- 8 gauge (red) wire running from the battery to a self resetting circuit breaker, which then runs to the back.
- 8 gauge (black) wire running from the battery to the back
- I ran these wires into the cubby hole where the jack and tool bag are normally located (the tool bag has been moved to the long storage bin on the other side to make room for the wiring)
- In the back, each of the 8 gauge wires goes to a junction block stud
- Each of the junction block studs has wires going to 2 12 volt outlets (with inline fuses on the positive leads) - one outlet is a bit below the factory outlet, the other is between the cubby hole and the subwoofer

I used a battery boot to cover the positive junction block and another to cover the connections to the circuit breaker under the hood.

What I've done works and looks decent, but I'd like to make a couple of changes:

1) Use a StreetWires AGU inline fuse holder (http://www.streetwires.com/products/inLineFuseHold/AGUholders.cfm) under the hood. This would eliminate any power loss from using a circuit breaker. I hadn't gone with an inline fuse previously because I hadn't been able to find something I liked (quality wise) that would accept 8 gauge wire.

2) Use a fused power distribution block instead of the junction blocks. This is where I'm stuck. I found something from StreetWires (http://www.streetwires.com/products/fusedDistBlock/comboFuseBlock_CBR44A.cfm) that is almost ideal. It looks great, has a cover over the power connections, would give me a few spare locations to add more things, and would fit where I want to mount it nicely. The problem is that the outputs support only 4 or 8 gauge wire and I can't find any push on terminals (for the 12 volt outlets) that will take anything bigger than 10 gauge wire.

Does anyone have suggestions on a specific power distribution block that is similar to the StreetWires one linked to above but supports smaller wire on the output side (anything 10-16 gauge would be acceptable). Google searches seem to be coming up with lots of options with the same wire gauge problem on the output side. Or does anyone know of push on terminals that accept 8 gauge wire?

I'll take and post some pictures when I get a chance. It looks like it's going to be wet all weekend, so it may not be for another week or so.

 

[LEXUSBEN]

Once again I somehow missed this thread

Anyway I have been researching this same sort of setup. I have quite a few accessories that I need a seperate fuse block to run to make it proper setup.

Here is what I have decided. I bought a 1 in 6 out and 1 in 6 out fuse block from wrangler nw to wire in, most likely above the drivers feet junction block(j/b). I want 6 switched fuses and 6 hot all the time fuses.

I don't like wiring all over the place so after an hour or so of flipping through the ewd I found that the 50A acc fuse only powers the acc relay and the three power outlets. Well the switched stuff is: Gps, xm, cb. Pretty small amp draws plus I will leave the power outlets hooked up to this fuse/relay combo. I am going to tie in in the underhood j/b.

As for the hot all the time fuses my l/c (this won't work for an lx or the newer l/c with ahc) doesn't have ahc but all of the wiring is there so I installed a 50a fuse for the ahc and again all i need to do is tap into the underhood j/b to power the hot all the time section of the fuse block.

I haven't done it yet because it will be a fairly large project rewiring all the accessories I have installed.

One side note I bought an ARB fridge (45qt about a month ago and just pulled the acc relay and bypassed it with a wire and two terminals as a temp solution until I installed all of this stuff and an additional pwr outlet in back for just the fridge. (I figure when I am done I will have 1 switched and 1 hot in back).

I also performed amperage measurements on the fridge and 2.7 amps is the max that I could get. 2.7 is on startup of the compressor, it actually drops to about 2.0 - 2.2 after it stabilizes. The pwr outlets from the factory are rated at 10A.

The wiring isn't that big, but in my opinion if you didn't want to go to the trouble of wiring another pwr outlet you don't really need to if you bypass the relay. Because we all know the japanese engineers overbuilt everything on our cars, so why would they cut corners here?? In my case it would be nice to have one more in back.

I am hoping to start on some of this tomorrow and will try to take some pics along the way for anyone that is interested.

ben

 

[hoser]

Nice timely post since I am just starting the same project. My Waeco fridge can't even run on the OEM cigarette lighter since it has a low voltage cut-off. Apparently there is too much voltage loss in the stock wiring. I am guessing those people with the Engle/ARB/Norcold fridges could benefit from running a new power line as well.

Greynolds, as an alternative, you can use 8 gauge cable out of that Streetwire distribution block and use the blue "Anderson" connectors rather than the standard cigarette plugs. The Anderson connectors provide a better, higher current connection with less voltage loss and are safer too. It would suck if your fridge accidentally unplugged itself on a 10 hour drive. These are much better if you want to run an inverter too. Heck, I would just convert all my appliances to run on these and then make an Anderson/Std Cigarette adapter in case you need to use your appliances in someone else's rig.

More info: http://www.windsun.com/Hardware/AndersonSB.htm

There are also Hella/Merit 12V accessory plugs that have a more positive connection than our standard cigarette lighters.

 

[greynolds]

Nice timely post since I am just starting the same project. My Waeco fridge can't even run on the OEM cigarette lighter since it has a low voltage cut-off. Apparently there is too much voltage loss in the stock wiring. I am guessing those people with the Engle/ARB/Norcold fridges could benefit from running a new power line as well.

Hmm - interesting. I hadn't bothered to check the voltage on the OEM socket, but I don't find it hard to believe after seeing what sort of wire it's hooked up with. Your mention of low voltage shutoff also brings up another point - has anyone found a high quality low voltage shutoff device that can be installed inline in the wiring? If the shutoff is done at the correct voltage, this would be decent insurance for being able to start your vehicle if a fridge or other device is draining the battery.

Greynolds, as an alternative, you can use 8 gauge cable out of that Streetwire distribution block and use the blue "Anderson" connectors rather than the standard cigarette plugs. The Anderson connectors provide a better, higher current connection with less voltage loss and are safer too. It would suck if your fridge accidentally unplugged itself on a 10 hour drive. These are much better if you want to run an inverter too. Heck, I would just convert all my appliances to run on these and then make an Anderson/Std Cigarette adapter in case you need to use your appliances in someone else's rig.

Well, since I've already made the holes and installed the lighter sockets, I don't think this would be a good approach for me to take. For someone starting out fresh, the only thing I don't like about this approach is that the Anderson connectors and pigtails have to go somewhere when not in use and need a clean way to get out of their storage location to use them - I wouldn't want to just have them flopping around all the time.

I just dug out my Waytek Wire catalog and think I may have a solution that will allow me to use the StreetWires block - they sell step down butt connectors (nylon insulated or non-insulated) from 8 gauge to 12-10 gauge. This should do the job and be perfectly safe as the fuse installed in the block would determine how much current would be allowed to flow to the lower gauge wire. I think for this job, I'd go with the non-insulated variety and use some heat shrink tubing to cover up the joint.

There are also Hella/Merit 12V accessory plugs that have a more positive connection than our standard cigarette lighters.

Yeah, I'm using the best 12v accessory sockets that West Marine sells - the combination of those same sockets and the plug on my fridge worked just fine in my Land Rover, so I would expect it to work fine now.

 

[hoser]

There are some ways to mount the Anderson connectors but they aren't as slick as cigarette lighter plugs. I'll try and find some examples. As for using 10-12 gauge cable in a 8 gauge distribution block, can't you just "double-back" the 12 gauge and clamp it down?

 

[greynolds]

As for using 10-12 gauge cable in a 8 gauge distribution block, can't you just "double-back" the 12 gauge and clamp it down?

Possibly - it probably depends on exactly how the clamps work. The step down butt connectors are pretty cheap, so I've ordered some anyway.

 

[greynolds]

All the parts for redoing my project finally arrived yesterday morning, so I spent the afternoon changing things around. The biggest part of the job ended up being figuring out exactly how to mount the fuse box. The Streetwires fuse box I decided to use comes with 3 pre-drilled mounting holes and I was hoping to make use of 2 out of the 3, but just couldn't find a spot to mount it where I could use the mounting holes and still have access for changing fuses, so I ended up drilling a new mounting hole in it. The new hole is hidden by the lower fuse in the pictures, but is about 1 1/8" above the hole that can be seen near the bottom (the mounting screw can be seen). It is screwed to part of the mounting bracket for the subwoofer (I believe this bracket essentially houses the subwoofer and the amp for the subwoofer (the Mark Levinson logo is partially hidden by some of the wires).

Here's a picture that shows the fuse panel with all the wiring going in and out of it:

Here's a picture showing an overall view of the 2 new power outlets and the fuse box:

Note that the tool roll has been moved to the long storage compartment on the passenger side as there is no longer room for it with the fuse panel installed.

Here's a picture showing where I mounted the Streetwires fuse holder, followed by one showing how I attached the wiring to the positive battery terminal:

Finally, this picture shows the power and ground wire going through the grommit on the driver side.

To get the wires through, I used an awl to poke holes and then pushed the wires through. It took some effort as the wire was larger diameter than the awl, but the tight fit should help ensure that water and fumes can't leak through.

Someone asked for a parts list, so here it is:

• Streetwires Combo AGU Fuse Distribution Block Part #CBR44A (also available for MAXI or AFS fuses)
• Streetwires AGU Inline Fuse Holder for 8 Gauge wire Part #FH8AGUB
• West Marine 12V flush mount power receptacles. I bought West Marine part #6867915 - which comes with 2 outlets and a plastic bezel for use if you mount them near each other. I couldn't find a spot where I could make use of the bezel. This item isn't listed online, but they had them in the local store a few weeks back.
• Ancor 8 Gauge Marine Grade wire in Red and Black - about 25 feet of each.
• Ancor 10 Gauge Marine Grade wire in Red and Black - about 10 feet of each
• 8 Gauge 5/16" Ring Terminal for connection to positive side of battery. Waytek Part #33003
• 8 Gauge 1/4" Ring Terminal for connection to negative side of battery. Waytek Part #33002
• 12-10 Gauge Female Push Ons, Non-Insulated. Waytek Part #32011
• 12-10 to 8 Gauge Non Insulated Step Down Butt Connectors. Waytek Part #38056
• Shring tubing to cover non insulated terminals and butt connectors.
• 40 Amp fuse for the inline fuse holder
• 20 Amp fuses for the power sockets - couldn't find 15 Amp AGU fuses
• Various nylon wire ties to keep things where they're supposed to be

I used the following sources for the parts:

• West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com) for marine grade wire and shrink tubing
• Waytek Wire (http://www.waytekwire.com) for the terminals
• Car Domain (http://www.cardomain.com/shop) for the Streetwires stuff (including fuses)

I've dealt with Waytek Wire a number of times over the years and have always been happy with the service and prices. The only downside is that there's often a minimum order quantity on parts - not so bad for ring terminals and such, but can be a bit annoying for parts that cast several bucks or more.

I've also dealt with West Marine a number of times. I like the Ancor wire and shrink tubing and the convenience of having a couple of their stores nearby, but their prices could defintely be better.

I've only purchased from Car Domain once, but their prices seemed to be pretty good and they shipped the items quickly.

Some tools were also needed - wire cutters, wire strippers, crimp tools (I use Paladin heavy duty ratchet crimpers instead of the cheapo crimpers you can get at places like Radio Shack as they give a better crimp and don't kill your hands on the larger terminals), a few screwdrivers, sockets, a drill with drill bits, a Greenlee 1 1/8" knockout hole punch (for the 12V receptacles), and an awl - I believe that's pretty much everything.

Thanks for the suggestions and pointers from those who helped get me started with getting the wires routed from the engine bay to the cargo area.

 

[spressomon]

Looks great...and great write up too!

 

[LEXUSBEN]

Once again I somehow missed this thread

Anyway I have been researching this same sort of setup. I have quite a few accessories that I need a seperate fuse block to run to make it proper setup.

Here is what I have decided. I bought a 1 in 6 out and 1 in 6 out fuse block from wrangler nw to wire in, most likely above the drivers feet junction block(j/b). I want 6 switched fuses and 6 hot all the time fuses.

I don't like wiring all over the place so after an hour or so of flipping through the ewd I found that the 50A acc fuse only powers the acc relay and the three power outlets. Well the switched stuff is: Gps, xm, cb. Pretty small amp draws plus I will leave the power outlets hooked up to this fuse/relay combo. I am going to tie in in the underhood j/b.

As for the hot all the time fuses my l/c (this won't work for an lx or the newer l/c with ahc) doesn't have ahc but all of the wiring is there so I installed a 50a fuse for the ahc and again all i need to do is tap into the underhood j/b to power the hot all the time section of the fuse block.

I haven't done it yet because it will be a fairly large project rewiring all the accessories I have installed.

One side note I bought an ARB fridge (45qt about a month ago and just pulled the acc relay and bypassed it with a wire and two terminals as a temp solution until I installed all of this stuff and an additional pwr outlet in back for just the fridge. (I figure when I am done I will have 1 switched and 1 hot in back).

I also performed amperage measurements on the fridge and 2.7 amps is the max that I could get. 2.7 is on startup of the compressor, it actually drops to about 2.0 - 2.2 after it stabilizes. The pwr outlets from the factory are rated at 10A.

The wiring isn't that big, but in my opinion if you didn't want to go to the trouble of wiring another pwr outlet you don't really need to if you bypass the relay. Because we all know the japanese engineers overbuilt everything on our cars, so why would they cut corners here?? In my case it would be nice to have one more in back.

I am hoping to start on some of this tomorrow and will try to take some pics along the way for anyone that is interested.

ben

So based on the above I got everything finished up today. Turned out quite clean. Used the ahc and acc fuses for powering up a 6/6 fuse block from wrangler nw. Used 10 gauge (about 3 feet) from under hood j/b to aux fuse block. Used 14 gauge wire to the new acc outlet in the rear for fridge. Outlet is rated to 15amps and the fridge only draws 2.7 max so this should be more than adequate to handle the load. (the wiring feetXamps chart in the wranglernw catalog is quick and easy)

I don't disagree with all of you who ran 8 gauge for the pwr outlet, I just think it's way overkill. The main wire from the alternator to battery is 8 gauge and that is designed to handle 80-100amps. I think that is the largest wire in the car other than the batt cables.

The first pic is the backside of the drivers kick panel trim by the dead pedal. The next is the fuse block which I put right next to the drivers j/b behind the trim piece, and the third is the aux outlet.

 

[hoser]

Ben, just curious. What is the measured voltage at the rear plug. What is it directly from the battery?

 

[LEXUSBEN]

Ben, just curious. What is the measured voltage at the rear plug. What is it directly from the battery?

Just measured this morning. Batt voltage 12.35v, plug voltage 12.26v. I know what your thinking hoser, but I don't think there is enough load to justify it.

 

[greynolds]

I don't disagree with all of you who ran 8 gauge for the pwr outlet, I just think it's way overkill. The main wire from the alternator to battery is 8 gauge and that is designed to handle 80-100amps. I think that is the largest wire in the car other than the batt cables.

I hear you, but the main wire from the alternator to the battery is only a few feet long. One of my goals in running the 8 gauge wire to the back is it leaves me room to add more circuits in the back if I find a need for them at some point without needing to go to the effort of running another wire from the front to the rear. Plus I know there should be no issues whatsoever running the fridge off the power feed I have. I used it this weekend so I'd have cold drinks available after an overnight backpacking trip. The fridge was left cycling for around 30 hours and all was well when I returned (cold drinks and plenty of life in the battery), though I'd like to add a 2nd battery before I do this too often.

 

[LEXUSBEN]

though I'd like to add a 2nd battery before I do this too often.

That makes sense for the bigger wire, I guess I don't plan on running anything else.

I have had my fridge about a month or so and have only killed the battery once. Have a b/u under the hood but not wired to system (jumper cables when needed). The time it died was right after I started using the fridge, I leave it plugged in and running all the time. It was upper 90's and my commute to work is only 6 miles. Not enough time to recharge I think on the third day I went out at lunch and dead. Now I just switch to a/c when I get home and have not had a problem since.

ben