A343F vs A440F shift pattern (PRND32L vs PRND2L) (1 Viewer)

[Dragos80]

I am trying to figure out the difference in the shifting pattern between the two transmissions when looking at engine braking.
Does the A440F shifter have a O/D button?
Is "D" considered the O/D, if there is no button for it? (I can't see it in the pictures I looked at)
4th---D
3rd---3
2nd---2
1st---L
Is this how it works?

For the A343F shifter there are less shifting points, there is no "3" in the pattern.
4th--O/D
3rd--D
2nd--2
1st--L
?


The reason for my question is the eventuality of swapping transmission for my '97 LC from the OEM A343F to a Lexus A650E (which comes with 5 gears instead of 4 on a LC).

In case everything else is OK to swap, the shifter keeps me up at night.
I ofter use engine brake to supplement for the weak brakes the LC comes with. It works very well that way.
I even drove without working brakes, just by downshifting the tranny.

But, going from 5th (0.753:1) gear to 3rd (1.424:1) is a bit of drop (or hike in RPM) using the A440F shifter for example.
It would be even worse for the A343F shifter, from 5th (0.753:1) to 2nd (2.18:1).

Currently it seems a bit much too when going from "D" to "2" on my stock transmission. I do step on the brake pedal prior to downshifting, but not sure if that would take the transmission out of 4th and into the 3rd gear initially (just by the brake pedal... lower speed) and then into 2nd by my downshift.

I would not want to redline the engine while performing such a downshift.


@LS1FJ40 you have both cars. Is there an O/D button on your 3FE model?


I would not want to use the Lexus shifter since the only way to make it work and look good is to apply a liberal amount of duct tape around it.

The pictures were shamelessly stolen from the forum and Google search.

A440F

A343F

Lexus LS430

 

[LS1FJ40]

No OD button on the 91-92.

 

[HDJdreams]

What are A650E ratios?

Are you using it with the 1FZ?

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Currently it seems a bit much too when going from "D" to "2" on my stock transmission. I do step on the brake pedal prior to downshifting, but not sure if that would take the transmission out of 4th and into the 3rd gear initially (just by the brake pedal... lower speed) and then into 2nd by my downshift.
...

You know that OD = 4th gear right? So, pushing the OD button = shifting to 3rd gear.

 

[Dragos80]

What are A650E ratios?

Are you using it with the 1FZ?

3.357
2.18
1.424
1.00
0.753


That's the plan. 1FZ yes.

There is a 17 page long thread on the 5-speed tranny swap here. You can read my posts there for more info and how I see it.
In January I plan on buying the tranny and see how it fits. Currently trying to work out the bugs, in my mind at least.

5 speed auto

 

[Dragos80]

You know that OD = 4th gear right? So, pushing the OD button = shifting to 3rd gear.

Thanks for clarifying it. I was afraid of that answer.

 

[Dragos80]

You know that OD = 4th gear right? So, pushing the OD button = shifting to 3rd gear.

Wild idea, I know.

3FE shifter with the 1FZ handle (including the O/D button).
Will that somehow be able to work? Creating a faux 5 speed shifter?

 

[HDJdreams]

Sorry, got lost in the 17 pages! All I remember was that sadly 03-07 5 speed won’t fit 1FZ.

 

[Dragos80]

Yes. I linked the page where I started talking about the A650E as a viable option.
It is from the same family of transmissions as A343F, the A3xx family. It was originally A350 then if morphed into A650 with some changes along the way.

It is very possible the transmission case is the same dimension as the A343. I don't know anything about the bolt pattern. That's one of the biggest sticking points... along with the latest shifter issue

I need to find out about the bolt pattern.
There is a slight chance it will bolt up to the LC's bellhousing. In that case, it will be really awesome news. If not, I'll probably sell it. Not worth the effort beyond that point.
The main shaft is shorter on the A650 and it will need to be replaced by the A343 one.

I am not willing to go along with having an adapter fabricated to fit the A650 tranny to the LC's bellhousing.
$300 is all I am willing to waste on this project if it gets nowhere. If it bolts up, then I will go forward with it.

 

[HDJdreams]

Yes. I linked the page where I started talking about the A650E as a viable option.
It is from the same family of transmissions as A343F, the A3xx family. It was originally A350 then if morphed into A650 with some changes along the way.

It is very possible the transmission case is the same dimension as the A343. I don't know anything about the bolt pattern. That's one of the biggest sticking points... along with the latest shifter issue

I need to find out about the bolt pattern.
There is a slight chance it will bolt up to the LC's bellhousing. In that case, it will be really awesome news. If not, I'll probably sell it. Not worth the effort beyond that point.
The main shaft is shorter on the A650 and it will need to be replaced by the A343 one.

I am not willing to go along with having an adapter fabricated to fit the A650 tranny to the LC's bellhousing.
$300 is all I am willing to waste on this project if it gets nowhere. If it bolts up, then I will go forward with it.

Thanks for doing the research!

My biggest hesitation of turboing the 1FZ vs an LS swap is the narrow ratio spread of A343 vs 6L80. Love the 5 speed in my 04!

 

[Dragos80]

The gear ratio spread on A343 is atrocious at best.
I really hate it when driving in the city. You take a turn and the torque just falls off a cliff. Going from 2.804 to 1.53 is a huge gap. You have to floor it all the time. If there was a gear in between, it would be a different story.
All this is actually worse when people tow something. You start off and then no power in second gear. It really needs something in between 1st and 2nd.
That's where the idea of a 5 speed blossomed with me.
With the A650 you have a really nice 1st gear, awesome for off road and the 2nd is taller than A343's 1st (2.18 vs 2.804) but shorter than A343's 2nd (which created that in between gear needed).

___2.804.......1.53.......1.00.....0.753
3.357......2.18...1.424..1.00.....0.753

The OD is just fine, especially that most of us run larger diameter tires, so it will make the engine rev lower.
I see only benefits with this set up. 3.357 with 4.11 is lower than 2.804 combined with 4.88 diff gears. It works well for 37" tires too.
And that second gear will help a lot in drivability too.


If you regear your diffs, you still have the same inherent shift problem from 1st to 2nd on A343. It only makes the 1st gear good, but it also messes up the O/D too, whereas with the A650 you establish good gear ratio spread and maintain the O/D ratio with stock diff gears while enhancing the 1st and 2nd gear behavior.

 

[Tools R Us]

The gear ratio spread on A343 is atrocious at best.
...

Wouldn't it be much better to buy a hundy with an A650, or would that be far too simple? Would have the correct shifter, V8, nitrogen assisted brakes, tow better, handle better, etc.

 

[retrofive]

Wouldn't it be much better to buy a hundy with an A650, or would that be far too simple? Would have the correct shifter, V8, nitrogen assisted brakes, tow better, handle better, etc.

Cup holders, rear A/C, mall-rated.... this list goes on.

 

[Dragos80]

I heard a rumor it also has round tires. So, yes. That would be better.

 

[mjosoba]

Even if it bolts up, you’ll still need a tranny controller right? That’s $2200 right there.

 

[Dragos80]

Only $200 for a custom made A650 TCU.
Still attractive option.