'99 with vibration and pulsating braking... (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Mar 22, 2004
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1,156
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Vehicle is my sister's, currently has 70K miles on it, at about 50K miles her front rotors were shot, I posted pictures of them at the time, rusted beyond belief, etc. So I put in new front rotors, new pads, new brake hardware, bled the brake system alot, put in atleast a quart of new fluid, also bled the rear, but did not do anything to the rear brakes. Vehicle drove great then, no vibes, etc. At about 65K miles the brakes started pulsating again, felt about like it did before (so she said), she took it to a dealership, they determined the rear rotors were toast (not surprising after seeing the fronts)...she bought all the hardware from CDan and took it to her local dealership (saved a ton on tax and list prices), they did the rear brakes no problem.

Now about 5K miles later the vehicle vibrates, but not just when braking. When driving normal at about 72mph the steering wheel vibrates back and forth some, not excessivly, but definetly not good. When you push on the brakes the vibration doesn't really get any worse but it doesn't go away, and when you're slowing and on the brakes you can feel the vehicle's brakes grab more then grab less then more, then less as the tires go around, not really adding to the vibration but more like you're pushing on the brakes harder then softer, etc, even though you're not.

Just for the heck of it I swapped front right tire with back right tire to see if that made any different this past weekend, it did not.

So, I'm curious what I should do. The fact that there is a vibration/shake at 72mph would mean a tire is out of balance I would think (she JUST had them rebalanced, they are factory tires with 70K miles on them, yet still have descent tread, not alot, but not dangerous yet, but she is looking at new tires anyway). If a tire is out of balance that's fine, but I don't know if new tires will fix the brake pulsating problem also. I'm suspect of the work done on the rear rotors, not because anything is probably wrong, but I didn't do it myself, but then part of me is suspecting my own work...one thing I noticed when doing the tire swap is the rotors look really glazed over, very smooth and shinny, I cleaned them up as best as I could with brake cleaner, but it did nothing, since they looked like they needed something abrasive to break the shine, if the shine is a problem (they looked shinier and smoother than most brake rotors I thought, but I could be wrong on that).

If you get on the brakes hard, like 70-5 mph they feel fine and you don't notice the increased braking, then decreased braking, etc...but it'd be hard to notice anything when you're stopping that fast.

So would out of balance tires do everything this vehicle seems to be doing? Hopefully so, but I hate to have my sister buy new tires for that not to be the main problem, she's not poor, but a single mom with 2 kids, not exactly loaded either.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
 
mabrodis said:
Vehicle is my sister's, currently has 70K miles on it, at about 50K miles her front rotors were shot, I posted pictures of them at the time, rusted beyond belief, etc. So I put in new front rotors, new pads, new brake hardware, bled the brake system alot, put in atleast a quart of new fluid, also bled the rear, but did not do anything to the rear brakes. Vehicle drove great then, no vibes, etc. At about 65K miles the brakes started pulsating again, felt about like it did before (so she said), she took it to a dealership, they determined the rear rotors were toast (not surprising after seeing the fronts)...she bought all the hardware from CDan and took it to her local dealership (saved a ton on tax and list prices), they did the rear brakes no problem.

Now about 5K miles later the vehicle vibrates, but not just when braking. When driving normal at about 72mph the steering wheel vibrates back and forth some, not excessivly, but definetly not good. When you push on the brakes the vibration doesn't really get any worse but it doesn't go away, and when you're slowing and on the brakes you can feel the vehicle's brakes grab more then grab less then more, then less as the tires go around, not really adding to the vibration but more like you're pushing on the brakes harder then softer, etc, even though you're not.

Just for the heck of it I swapped front right tire with back right tire to see if that made any different this past weekend, it did not.

So, I'm curious what I should do. The fact that there is a vibration/shake at 72mph would mean a tire is out of balance I would think (she JUST had them rebalanced, they are factory tires with 70K miles on them, yet still have descent tread, not alot, but not dangerous yet, but she is looking at new tires anyway). If a tire is out of balance that's fine, but I don't know if new tires will fix the brake pulsating problem also. I'm suspect of the work done on the rear rotors, not because anything is probably wrong, but I didn't do it myself, but then part of me is suspecting my own work...one thing I noticed when doing the tire swap is the rotors look really glazed over, very smooth and shinny, I cleaned them up as best as I could with brake cleaner, but it did nothing, since they looked like they needed something abrasive to break the shine, if the shine is a problem (they looked shinier and smoother than most brake rotors I thought, but I could be wrong on that).

If you get on the brakes hard, like 70-5 mph they feel fine and you don't notice the increased braking, then decreased braking, etc...but it'd be hard to notice anything when you're stopping that fast.

So would out of balance tires do everything this vehicle seems to be doing? Hopefully so, but I hate to have my sister buy new tires for that not to be the main problem, she's not poor, but a single mom with 2 kids, not exactly loaded either.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark

You're better than me on this stuff. No sure why your pedal still pulses a bit? I can tell you though that as long as I've owned this truck there's always been some speed range where I get the tire balance deal. Of course, mine are always loosing tread after reach trip. :) But all that crud starts at 62 or 68 or 72 depending on my tires. Balancing helps but changes the MPH of reoccuring trouble.
QUESTION: Does the pedal pulse when you are going 45 and slow slowly? Does it vibrate and the steeering wheel wiggle at 45? If not, I suspect tires. My last 35's were so bad they couldn't balance them. I got freebees! :)
 
That's strikes me a long run out of the factory tires.
 
If the wobble occurs when braking=rotors/calipers\
If the wobble occurs when driving=balance/alignment

Really no other causes MINUS mud in the wheels/on the wheels after a trip.

There is a very very slim chance that a tire is actually bad. You only changed the right tire so the left might be out of balance or you might have lost a wheel weight.
 
You must have gotten the brake parts for the optional "lonely scoocer mom" pkg
It was for when they were out running around picking up and dropping off the kids they got a little something extra . The only way you and tell if it has the option is to look at the driver around 5pm at a light. This face :D yes it was installed and if its this one :mad: nope
 
Tires at that milage will need to be replaced before winter in colorado anyway so I would start with them and get the new ones balanced on a roadforce balance machine.

Maybe you need to go lock the truck up from highway speeds to remove the "glaze" you saw on the rotors. I doubt your sister is doing enough hard braking with two kids in the truck to cut through it.
 
Can warped rear rotors make your steering wheel shake? I thought it was only when the fronts were out?
 
Warped rear rotors usually won't make the wheel shake, its felt more in the seat or noticed in the shifter (shakes while braking). It sound more like the tires are your problem. NMuzj100 is on track with having them road force balanced. Example - The tires are pretty old, regular balancing will possibly take care of the vibration, but road force will actually load the tire to check the "loaded circumference and sidewall stiffness. If one of the tires has belts that are starting to seperate the regular spin balance will not find or compensate for that, the road force will find it. I've worked for toyota for a long time heard a stat once, 80% of warranty vibrations are due to excessive road force variation. BTW I'm new to the board but long time 4wheeler and toyota guy.
 
LEXUSBEN said:
Warped rear rotors usually won't make the wheel shake, its felt more in the seat or noticed in the shifter (shakes while braking). It sound more like the tires are your problem. NMuzj100 is on track with having them road force balanced. Example - The tires are pretty old, regular balancing will possibly take care of the vibration, but road force will actually load the tire to check the "loaded circumference and sidewall stiffness. If one of the tires has belts that are starting to seperate the regular spin balance will not find or compensate for that, the road force will find it. I've worked for toyota for a long time heard a stat once, 80% of warranty vibrations are due to excessive road force variation. BTW I'm new to the board but long time 4wheeler and toyota guy.
Excellent points...just for clarification this vehicle is in Ohio, not Colorado where I am, although in Ohio she typically gets FAR more snow than we do, even had to use her rear locker once to get out of her driveway.. :D

I was thinking about the tires and what a normal balance does for them and came up to a similar conclusion. To balance the tires all they do is spin the tire in the air and add weights until the centrifigul force is the same, so the tire is 'balanced', however that is just if the tire is always spinning in the air. If you put it on the ground the tire could still be egg shaped, which would have been adjusted by the balancer with more weight on the low parts so the actual centrifigul force is the same, but still the actual height of the tire would vary. So when driving on a real vehicle with weight on it, the tire would still go up and down in the egg shape, even though it's 'perfectly balanced'.

When I put on the front rotors I did several of the 70-5mph stops to try to break-in the new pads and rotors (read that writeup someone posted on here about how warped rotors aren't really warped, etc, it had some procedures to do). I'm sure she can stop the vehicle as hard as I can, so I'll have her do that. I agree with tires that old and that many miles, even if the tread looks fine they are still old and are probably somewhat dry rotting, etc.

I really hope it's not brake stuff, since I hate dealing with that, although I'd rather me fly out there and do the work than have her take it anywhere, and she'd rather me come there too. (I was out there last time and working on it and a guy was putting siding on her house, he asked her who I was, she's like "he's my private mechanic, whenever I need work done I fly him out to do the work" He's like...wow...ok) :D
 
mabrodis said:
Now about 5K miles later the vehicle vibrates, but not just when braking. When driving normal at about 72mph the steering wheel vibrates back and forth some, not excessivly, but definetly not good.

Mark, we have some new data on this. I had a slight vibration in my 02, and have a friend with a LX470 that had really bad vibrations. He did a front wheel bearing repack and at the time inspected the spindle bushings (inside the spindle where the CV joint comes through to the outside spindle. His was so trashed it actually fell out when the axle was removed. They were also completely dry. The spindle bushing is similar to the 80 new on that has brass bushing with needle bearing.

He replaced his and greased his and 90% of his vibration is gone.

We now did my truck's wheel bearings as well and made a spindle grease tool and regreased mine and low and behold, my vibrations are gone as well. This works simmilar to the IFS mini trucks. I think very few people will actually grease this since you can only do it with a special tool or taking the spindle apart from the A arm and removing the CV.

Just fyi.
 
This probably deserves a new thread for the FAQ.

sleeoffroad said:
We now did my truck's wheel bearings as well and made a spindle grease tool and regreased mine and low and behold, my vibrations are gone as well. This works simmilar to the IFS mini trucks. I think very few people will actually grease this since you can only do it with a special tool or taking the spindle apart from the A arm and removing the CV.

Do you have to do this at the same time you have the bearings out? Or with the special tool can you do it from the CV side?

What does SleeOffroad charge for a "Spindle Greasing" ? :D

I do need to get my wheel bearings repacked and will be in Denver in two weeks.
 
NMuzj100 said:
This probably deserves a new thread for the FAQ.

Do you have to do this at the same time you have the bearings out? Or with the special tool can you do it from the CV side?

What does SleeOffroad charge for a "Spindle Greasing" ? :D

I do need to get my wheel bearings repacked and will be in Denver in two weeks.

You have to take the hub and bearings off, but you do not have to remove the spindle if you have the tool. Pretty simple tool. Hub nut with small piece of tube welded to it, then capped and grease nipple installed. Pushes grease between the axle shaft and spindle.

Call to make appointment. :D I prefer not to quote prices etc on here.
 
How in the frick would I explain this to the stealership?

uzj100
 
sleeoffroad said:
Mark, we have some new data on this. I had a slight vibration in my 02, and have a friend with a LX470 that had really bad vibrations. He did a front wheel bearing repack and at the time inspected the spindle bushings (inside the spindle where the CV joint comes through to the outside spindle. His was so trashed it actually fell out when the axle was removed. They were also completely dry. The spindle bushing is similar to the 80 new on that has brass bushing with needle bearing.

He replaced his and greased his and 90% of his vibration is gone.

We now did my truck's wheel bearings as well and made a spindle grease tool and regreased mine and low and behold, my vibrations are gone as well. This works simmilar to the IFS mini trucks. I think very few people will actually grease this since you can only do it with a special tool or taking the spindle apart from the A arm and removing the CV.

Just fyi.
Cool...thanks Christo...so could someone just take the hubnut off and the outer wheel bearing and then push in grease by hand in there? I'm trying to visualize it all...

So did you conclude that the axle was too loose in there and that was causing the vibration? Wouldn't a brass bushing be beat to hell if it was causing or getting hit from the vibration? Seems like it would but I don't really know.

Great info...thanks!
 
Mr. Slee: Have you seen a lot of 100/LX come in with loose wheelbearings? Mine were done twice by the dealer and were loose again in Moab (until Robbie tightened them there). I'm curious if they all keep coming loose or if Robbie was correct in that my dealer did them wrong. :confused:
 
Christo, so the grease needs to go up along side the axle right? I agree it would be tough/impossible to do by hand/stick, etc...

Do you have to pull it any more apart than this? (pic from when I did my sister's front rotors) Basically it just needs grease pushed up along those splines right? How much did you put in there?

uzj100_backingplate.jpg
 
When I worked for christo we did not see that many loose wheel bearing on 100's until higher miles. I do not think most dealerships service the wheel bearing until there is looseness or rotor replacement. Typical mileage on one owner trucks goes from 70k miles to over 100k miles that I saw. Cool tool Christo, I am sure if you have some in a tool company make it, it would sell.
Mark are you also sure the wheel bearing are tight?
Necesity is the mother of invention.
If no special tool handy, jsut follow the procecure for removing the CV shaft in the FSM for the outer CV and insert grease. Put back together. all is good. later robbie
 
powderpig said:
When I worked for christo we did not see that many loose wheel bearing on 100's until higher miles. I do not think most dealerships service the wheel bearing until there is looseness or rotor replacement. Typical mileage on one owner trucks goes from 70k miles to over 100k miles that I saw. Cool tool Christo, I am sure if you have some in a tool company make it, it would sell.
Mark are you also sure the wheel bearing are tight?
Necesity is the mother of invention.
If no special tool handy, jsut follow the procecure for removing the CV shaft in the FSM for the outer CV and insert grease. Put back together. all is good. later robbie

Where ya working now Robbie?
 

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