87 swapped swap

[scottc]

Hello All ,

I have a few questions for the knowers , or those with ideas as to what may fit best , so read forth and fire away.

87 I picked up in Washington last year with the understanding it was a 350 swap already done. The swap was done , not very well , lots of hackey work , its already over budget and we own it.
Turns out block reads as a 79 305 , running a 600 holley , ranger overdrive to the factory 4 speed to the stock transfer case.
I DO NOT LIKE A 305 , dont even like spending money on it - end of story.
Motor is coming out , so my dilemma is what to go back with ?

This is my Wife's truck , i want her to sidestep the tahoe and drive this as a DD because she is just that fond of it , she would like that as well. She does not like the 4 speed as she often has 5 different things going on and sometimes shifting just gets in the way.

I have found a 100k 2004 chevy 6.0 setup that is complete and driveable and can get it all from headlight to tailight.
I would like to go FI as the carb just gives her fits at times , and we also have a steep driveway that the carb does not seem to like.

I dont want to throw a fortune at the thing as we bought it expecting a driver , which it has been for the most part , but the carb is spotty and the 9 mpg is awful. Drivtrain cost aside , what would expected cost be for a DIY. I dont mind building her a ride she can enjoy for years to come so but cant afford to put 10k into either unless i have it tore apart for 2+ years as the paper trail is hide-able then.

Does the transmission matter in a sense of 4l60e or 4l65e ?
Any other adapters other than tranny to transfer case ?
Is there a better option to go behind an early LS motor ?
In reading i need different manifolds and an oilpan correct ?
I know there are a quite a few threads in the build section to read thru but most seem to be covered by one in particular builder....

Other ideas on this ? Thought of cutting losses on it , recouping what we could and applying it to a built one again , but everytime they come up it's cross country and I'm tired of doing cross country disappointment buys as the gems always turn out to be CZ's.....

Truck has an OME lift already , plan on dispersing of the old drivetrain when it comes out so will be listing at that time. Truck is pretty clean and pretty much a pavement pounder , she does travel some oilfield lease roads with occasional ruts and mud but basic 4x should cover that , no need for anything drastic other than a well functioning solid DD.

Searching thru the threads daily , bookmarking and such but ideas and input are appreciated as well as links.

thanks a bunch !

 

[Trapper50cal]

You may want to look for a different SBC swapped rig with an automatic.

I don't personally see anything wrong with a SBC 305...just a 350 with less displacement and maybe some lesser main bearings and more restrictive heads. A properly running 305 is more than enough to double the output of the 2F. Sounds like the motor doesn't really need a 600cfm carb. That or you guys are into the secondaries all the time.

I'm sorry, but I have to say this...if your wife has "5 different things going on" while she's driving, then she's an unsafe driver...and that's a problem to everyone on the road.

 

[Callahan Offroad]

Well, you're pretty much going to have to start over.
Who looks at a 305 and says "that sounds like a great idea!"?

cost is highly variable. It's like asking "how much is a house?"

4l60 is a fine transmission. A little pricey to rebuild (at least around here) but its a solid auto, and assuming it was maintained should last till about 250k (which is where all GM Auto's need to be rebuilt)

You'll need the adapter to the transfer-case for sure. Maybe new engine and transmission mounts. You'll need the wiring harness for the engine and the computer from the new motor, as well as the transmission harness and computer. You'll also need to decide if you want to use a floor shifter or a tree shifter for the transmission. I'm not confident the radiator will be compatible, but it could be. You'll probably need new radiator hoses. You'll need a new fuel pump for sure, carburetor motors almost always use a pump bolted to the engine. New Fuel Lines. You'll have to decide on the intake. Unless they are the tight-fitting exhaust manifolds you'll need new headers, and an exhaust. Probably new power steering lines. New A/C Lines. Misc small vacuum lines. A converter for the speedo and tachometer.

assuming the drivetrain is free, and its serviced and needs no service maybe a grand or two? Could be more. I can't imagine it being $10k, that's usually what people spend starting from scratch.

You could always do a diesel swap too

If you want a really reliable DD you should buy a non-swapped Cruiser

 

[scottc]

.

I'm sorry, but I have to say this...if your wife has "5 different things going on" while she's driving, then she's an unsafe driver...and that's a problem to everyone on the road.

I understand , 12 years as an OTR driver with half that hauling gas. Prolly have close to 2 million and am the worst backseat driver you've ever seen. She's not bad , but is a smoker , and running a Coil Tubing company where she serves as everything from biller , to collector , to downhole designer , to payroll , insurance and everything in between. So between smoking and being on the phone with the occasional note having to be jotted down her hands are pretty busy sometimes. We picked it up hoping she would like it , but she just isnt fond of the 4 speed.

I've considered the sale and buying of another , but at what point do we decide that it's to big of a loss on this one and then hoping to find another that is reliably put together. I'd rather put 5-6k into this and know what i have vs taking a 5k hit on it and having to shell out another 6-7k to meet the price of another converted one that i hope to be what i'm looking for.

I know many liked a 305 , Ive just never been one of them , always seemed a good reason for me over the years to skip right on by and had i run the casting numbers on this one when purchasing it would have done the same , however that's all hindsight....

 

[scottc]

Well, you're pretty much going to have to start over.
Who looks at a 305 and says "that sounds like a great idea!"?

cost is highly variable. It's like asking "how much is a house?"

4l60 is a fine transmission. A little pricey to rebuild (at least around here) but its a solid auto, and assuming it was maintained should last till about 250k (which is where all GM Auto's need to be rebuilt)

You'll need the adapter to the transfer-case for sure. Maybe new engine and transmission mounts. You'll need the wiring harness for the engine and the computer from the new motor, as well as the transmission harness and computer. You'll also need to decide if you want to use a floor shifter or a tree shifter for the transmission. I'm not confident the radiator will be compatible, but it could be. You'll probably need new radiator hoses. You'll need a new fuel pump for sure, carburetor motors almost always use a pump bolted to the engine. New Fuel Lines. You'll have to decide on the intake. Unless they are the tight-fitting exhaust manifolds you'll need new headers, and an exhaust. Probably new power steering lines. New A/C Lines. Misc small vacuum lines. A converter for the speedo and tachometer.

assuming the drivetrain is free, and its serviced and needs no service maybe a grand or two? Could be more. I can't imagine it being $10k, that's usually what people spend starting from scratch.

You could always do a diesel swap too

If you want a really reliable DD you should buy a non-swapped Cruiser

We had a great 62 Daily , sold it to go the V8 route as we live in the hill country and that thing was slow.....

I like the diesel option , she doesn't. I run a custom built 02 7.3 powerstroke and am way more comfortable wrenching on diesel.
I also thought about a buying a new block with efi and telling her its just gonna have to stay a 4 speed , but the setups for that cost enough i might as well just go full on LS.

 

[Trapper50cal]

Well, it sounds like she would benefit from a hand's free phone system and Siri

Whether or not you dig the 305, it's what you have on hand...you obviously are going to benefit financially from not replacing it unless needed. I'm relatively certain that if all is in order (compression, bearings, valves, etc.) you could put a 2bbl manifold and carb on it that would run fine and improve mileage. Then you would only have the matter of dealing with the tranny swap, which would be well below your budget. I do agree with the concept of knowing what you have rather than rolling the dice on something used that you know nothing about.

 

[Callahan Offroad]

Scott,
What about just buying the above mentioned truck and giving that to her as her DD? Then you take the Cruiser, get it fixed up and it becomes your fun vehicle. It'll be much more to convert that to just fix the broken bits.

PS, After living in Texas, "hill country" is a bit of a over-statement on the size of the hills

 

[scottc]

Points well taken on the 305

What above mentioned truck should i buy ? The donor for the swap ? It is just a cab on a frame chopped from the pillars up , no front clip , no bed , a rollover.

We are in the middle of a 15 acre purchase just outside of Silverton , Co. to start building on , does that constitute hills ?

 

[Trapper50cal]

We are in the middle of a 15 acre purchase just outside of Silverton , Co. to start building on , does that constitute hills ?

No, that's a little more than hills...That's Rockies and thems real mountains That's my stomping grounds.

The better not be on the phone and smoking when you're going down Black Bear....

 

[Major Nelson]

I remember looking at this rig, down in the Tacoma area, correct? the engine and ranger overdrive scared me off....felt very hacked. Did you buy it sight unseen?

 

[scottc]

Flew in , drove it , seemed like a it just needed a little carb work. Had some throw out bearing rattle , trimmed up the price to make up for that and the fact the AC wasnt working , drove it home. I'm a sucker for CC buying , usually bites my a$$ every time as i see what it could be with little stuff aside not what it is at the moment. One month 10k seems like a bargain on a swap buy , next month they are all over for 10k.

Trapper - cell seems spotty at best in that area , should keep her to a minimum. Along with the fact that i have to be the one up there in summer doing the building , poor me. We have some friends that are just up the mountain from Dunton Hot Springs resort , being up there on repeat visits with them has sold us. She is also School of Mine's alumni and wants back in Co. , and i have fallen out twice now from Tx heat so in the distant future it will reside there , hills and all. We just spent Christmas and New Years just outside Pagosa , coming back for some more Kip's tacos pretty soon !

 

[Trapper50cal]

...Trapper - cell seems spotty at best in that area , should keep her to a minimum. Along with the fact that i have to be the one up there in summer doing the building , poor me. We have some friends that are just up the mountain from Dunton Hot Springs resort , being up there on repeat visits with them has sold us. She is also School of Mine's alumni and wants back in Co. , and i have fallen out twice now from Tx heat so in the distant future it will reside there , hills and all. We just spent Christmas and New Years just outside Pagosa , coming back for some more Kip's tacos pretty soon !

LOL! (on cell reception) Yeah, I was a Durang-a-tang until a while ago. Shoot me a PM when you're about to hit Kip's, we'll meet up for tacos and Modelos.

 

[scottc]

LOL! (on cell reception) Yeah, I was a Durang-a-tang until a while ago. Shoot me a PM when you're about to hit Kip's, we'll meet up for tacos and Modelos.

Modelo especial or IPA , your speaking my language ! Will do next time we are out that way. Looked all over in that area as it keeps the drive from here a bit shorter , but couldnt nail down what we were looking for.
Spent 3 hours offroading in the greater Chama area on the way home looking as well , us , 4 kids , two dogs , what an adventure. It is nice , but its no Colorado mountains.

So what would be a fair price to ask on this one with it running ok'ish and a throw out bearing still rattling. I guess that determines how much i am willing to put into this. Not opposed to a few grand to make it a better DD rig for her.

 

[Trapper50cal]

Modelo especial or IPA , your speaking my language ! Will do next time we are out that way. Looked all over in that area as it keeps the drive from here a bit shorter , but couldnt nail down what we were looking for.
Spent 3 hours offroading in the greater Chama area on the way home looking as well , us , 4 kids , two dogs , what an adventure. It is nice , but its no Colorado mountains.

So what would be a fair price to ask on this one with it running ok'ish and a throw out bearing still rattling. I guess that determines how much i am willing to put into this. Not opposed to a few grand to make it a better DD rig for her.

If you're a hophead we'll have to get you into a Conductor Imperial, a Third Eye or a Modus Hoperandi (Steamworks, Steamworks, Ska)...

As to correctly evaluating your current rig...many, many considerations not yet discussed. Wouldn't hazard a guess until much more was known.

 

[Elbert]

305's are boat anchors....if you want to save $$...just back in with a 5.7/350.

here is what I would do for a daily....DD (5.7 + GM auto trans + AA adapter +FJ60 Split Case Transfer-case)...probably be the least painful. Pick your flavor of 5.7...carb/fI and get matching GM auto trans. Or go with 5.3 or 6.0 with matching GM auto...

 

[ntsqd]

Was it me, TBI 5.7L with matching auto trans out of a 4WD GM pick-up. You WANT the 4wd version of the trans case, it is stronger in the bell-housing area. You also want the brackets and struts the 4wd's get from the b/h inspection cover to the engine mounts. The 2wd's not only don't have these, they aren't retrofit-able to the 2wd trans case.

The TBI is simple (essentially 3 sensors: Coolant temp, O2, MAP), the engine is what you want (I think), the trans is what it sounds like she wants, should be able to get a whole running truck for reasonable.

Shouldn't have any trouble selling the Ranger OD to recoup part of the cost.

 

[scottc]

I like the 97-99 5.7 vortec , i had three of that motor and every one of them got better MPG than the 5.3 's i have had. As far as a TBI 350 , i guess thats just finding one that still runs ? I scour parts often and cant remember the last time i saw a low mileage TBI drivetrain for sale. Whats the life expectancy on a TBI , 200k ? Sounds like most likely i would need to add in a freshen up on the motor unless i stumble across a fresh build that's totaled out. Appreciate the heads up on the tranny differences -

 

[Callahan Offroad]

I like the 97-99 5.7 vortec , i had three of that motor and every one of them got better MPG than the 5.3 's i have had. As far as a TBI 350 , i guess thats just finding one that still runs ? I scour parts often and cant remember the last time i saw a low mileage TBI drivetrain for sale. Whats the life expectancy on a TBI , 200k ? Sounds like most likely i would need to add in a freshen up on the motor unless i stumble across a fresh build that's totaled out. Appreciate the heads up on the tranny differences -

I don't know what the TBI is rated for specifically, but I had it in a 2500 and it was super reliable. Now, were it me and I was going TBI, I'd swap the vortec heads. That also being said at that point I'd just go with the 5.7 Vortec.
The TBI should pretty much be a drop in with your current system assuming you can find a manual TBI.

 

[Heckraiser]

Not sure what your budget is, but about $2000 will get you a new crate 350 of the early vortec variety (roller cams, vortec heads), or $3000 will get you a similar 383. Either one can be set up to run TBI or vortec, just pull what you need from the bone yard.

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance/809/12530283/10002/-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/6000/i.html...mpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_rdc=2

As for transmission, I think any GM 4-speed auto will be fine if you can either rebuild or verify mileage. I would get your wife a bluetooth stereo and keep the 4-speed & ranger.

 

[scottc]

I don't know what the TBI is rated for specifically, but I had it in a 2500 and it was super reliable. Now, were it me and I was going TBI, I'd swap the vortec heads. That also being said at that point I'd just go with the 5.7 Vortec.
The TBI should pretty much be a drop in with your current system assuming you can find a manual TBI.

Ok , excuse the ignorance. If I could talk her into accepting the current manual tranny setup then what are options for an engine ? Will the late 90's vortec's mount to the ranger or even a newer LS ? If so does it have to be a motor setup for a manual or either and just swap the flywheel ? Have a question into AA as well on this but thought someone here might have run something similar already - vortec/LS to ranger to Toyota 4 speed to transfer case. Only difference would be the engine mounting to the ranger with the newer motor