866 vs 865 and a bull bar questions

[rzpapp]

Ok this is really two questions (ie two threads):

866 vs 865, which OME springs. Compared to the stock springs how much heavier (stiffer) are the 865's and then the 866 compared to 865. Why would someone want the 865 (they are what I am considering), do the 866 ride too rough when the truck is unloaded... which is typically how mine will be when I commute, but will be more stuffed when going in the outback.

Ok the second... I notice alot of you going with the TJM T3 Bull Bar Classic vs the simular looking ARB Sahara bar... other then the price (ARB looks like its almost 2X with the the fog light kit) what is the thinking here... weight, looks etc...

 

[SINCITY100]

Ok this is really two questions (ie two threads):

866 vs 865, which OME springs. Compared to the stock springs how much heavier (stiffer) are the 865's and then the 866 compared to 865. Why would someone want the 865 (they are what I am considering), do the 866 ride too rough when the truck is unloaded... which is typically how mine will be when I commute, but will be more stuffed when going in the outback.

Good Question rz....

Although you may find more info on this (with a topic search in the forums), I will tell you about my own personal experience with the 866`s.

When I finally decided it was time to add the OME kit (front T-bars + rear springs) on my 100, I was faced with the same dillema ( I use this vehicle for both on AND off road, with a VERY large difference in cargo weight between the two ! )... So I poked around a bit in this (and other) forums and sources for a definitive answer.

Well, I couldnt seem to find the "right" answer for my specific needs and uses, So... Realizing that it was more important (to me) to maintain ride height and keep the ground clearance at the "max" when I was using my rig for what I ACTUALLY bought it for ( I wanted something that I could take out in the bush for weeks at a time, and go wherever I wanted to ), I said to myself "If the 866`s ride too harsh on the pavement, I`ll just have to deal with it !"

I AM SO GLAD I WENT WITH THE 866`S !!

I was actually PLEASED with the ride during normal, everyday use.. even with all 4 of the rear seats removed !

And..

After several extended trips with my 100 fully-loaded ( and I mean FULLY !).. I can only praise these springs...I had minimal sagging, I maintained great wheel travel and articulation...and the vehicle had virtually NO lean when cornering ! It (100) felt VERY solid under any driving condition that I put it through !! I could only imagine how bummed I would have been if I had put on the 855`s (which I have been told that they feel just like "stock", only are a bit taller)..

Even though at the time, I hadnt really planned on adding very much to the actual vehicle (like a heavier rear bumper or a bigger spare..etc, now I know I can (and I will !) without any major changes to the rear suspension.

I can not stress enough how well it rides under both normal day to day driving AND loaded to the hilt with gear. If you EVER plan on using yours for long journeys with either a lot of people or supplies (or better yet...both ) , Then go with the 866`s !

Just my $.01 worth (it seems to what my opinions are worth in here)


Oh, as far as the front bar goes..forget those whimpy looking ones..put an ARB BULL-BAR on that bad boy !

 

[ryanjl]

The TJM bullbar is a bit cheaper, and it allows you to use your stock fog-lights in the openings. The ARB bar requires you to buy IPF(?) ones, which run a bit more.

 

[ryanjl]

As far as the springs go, what is the spring rate for each?

I know in the 80 series world, the difference in the 860 rear springs (medium load) and 863s (heavy load) is really just that the 863s are longer, yielding a little more lift. The spring rate is the same.

 

[spressomon]

OK...this information wasn't available for me...I'll take my thanks now thank you

I put the 865's on with the OME T-bars and OME fr/rr shocks. This was when I had stock rear bumper, no drawers, etc (but with fridge/freeze and TJMT3 Classique front bumper). It handled great on/off road: A win-win combo. Then when I added the AO drawers + Slee rr bumper, HiLift, camping gear the 865's sagged. So Christo/Ben recommended the 866's with my current set-up...they are the same length as the 865's but ever so slightly larger OD coil material with closer spaced coils on the bottom portion. This set-up was perfect until I loaded all my hunting gear, food, etc. which made them sit a little lower than what I want. I now think, for all the options/gear on my rig, either adding 20-25mm packers to the 866's OR air bladders OR maybe, like Shotts, going with 863's in the rear.

Hope this helps someone.

FYI: I have a pair of 865's for sale (see Parts for Sale).

 

[rzpapp]

Thanks! I am gonna go with the 866 as eventually I will get the heavy rear bumper and I usually travel fully loaed on trips off-road.

 

[i4c4lo]

rzpapp,

Not to confuse even more but the 80 series OME also works with the 100.

I am running 863's in the rear on everyday stuff including when I did the Rubicon and 864's on tripss with A LOT of stuff on the back.

My truck has a 160l 2nd gas tank. It has custom front and rear bumpers (which doesn't weight much) I tried the 865's but when I installed the 2nd gas tank it was sagging pretty bad. With 863's it is about 1 inch taller with a both tanks full, with tools, spare parts, camping equipment, firewood, fridge etc. for a trip it sits even with the front. I got the 864's when the truck had 6 people, fridge, spare parts, roof rack -with stuff, tools etc. for a 2 week long road trip including some off-roading - nothing radical my inlaws were in the truck

Anyway, just wanted to share the setup. I hope you figure it out. One of the good things about the 100 is you only need two coils to figure it out hehehe also you can also sell the springs if you don't like it. At about $170 per pair (Man-A-Fre) its still not as bad as it seems to try out.

Amando

 

[spressomon]

rzpapp,

Not to confuse even more but the 80 series OME also works with the 100.

I am running 863's in the rear on everyday stuff including when I did the Rubicon and 864's on tripss with A LOT of stuff on the back.

My truck has a 160l 2nd gas tank. It has custom front and rear bumpers (which doesn't weight much) I tried the 865's but when I installed the 2nd gas tank it was sagging pretty bad. With 863's it is about 1 inch taller with a both tanks full, with tools, spare parts, camping equipment, firewood, fridge etc. for a trip it sits even with the front. I got the 864's when the truck had 6 people, fridge, spare parts, roof rack -with stuff, tools etc. for a 2 week long road trip including some off-roading - nothing radical my inlaws were in the truck

Anyway, just wanted to share the setup. I hope you figure it out. One of the good things about the 100 is you only need two coils to figure it out hehehe also you can also sell the springs if you don't like it. At about $170 per pair (Man-A-Fre) its still not as bad as it seems to try out.

Amando

Good Info Amando! I need about 1" to make my rig right when loaded for hunting. The 866's which I have on it now are just not enough lift for my rig. However I need to verify if my OME rear shocks would be long enough to prevent topping out if I switch to the 863's. How do the 863's handle/ride with an unloaded rig?

 

[Greg B]

Couldn't you also just add some OME trim packers to add an inch of lift in the rear without buying 863's? Or am I missing something? I believe someone posted in the past (maybe Shotts?) that the spring rates for the 866's and the 863's are the same, the 863's are just longer. If that is the case, you can probably put in trim packers for $20-$30. Anybody (Christo?) have a chart with the spring rates for all of these different springs from OME? I guarantee it's not on that POS ARB website.

 

[spressomon]

Couldn't you also just add some OME trim packers to add an inch of lift in the rear without buying 863's? Or am I missing something? I believe someone posted in the past (maybe Shotts?) that the spring rates for the 866's and the 863's are the same, the 863's are just longer. If that is the case, you can probably put in trim packers for $20-$30. Anybody (Christo?) have a chart with the spring rates for all of these different springs from OME? I guarantee it's not on that POS ARB website.

That is my exact question/dilemma. It would be nice to have slightly stiffer spring rate when fully loaded...so if the 863/866 are same rate then that won't help. I think the 864's are stiffer (larger coil OD) of the 863's correct? Christo also mentioned using an air bladder to be used when fully loaded then aired down when not...so that without full loads the rig still handles/rides properly.

However with either (packers or 863/864) we need to know if the OME shock is long enough to prevent topping out...otherwise it is on to fixing something else. Shotts does use the 863's...however I don't know what shocks he is using with them.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

That is my exact question/dilemma. It would be nice to have slightly stiffer spring rate when fully loaded...so if the 863/866 are same rate then that won't help. I think the 864's are stiffer (larger coil OD) of the 863's correct? Christo also mentioned using an air bladder to be used when fully loaded then aired down when not...so that without full loads the rig still handles/rides properly.

However with either (packers or 863/864) we need to know if the OME shock is long enough to prevent topping out...otherwise it is on to fixing something else. Shotts does use the 863's...however I don't know what shocks he is using with them.

I'm using the same 100 shocks you-all are using. And yes, Amando's advice is excellent. Although it's a pain to swap springs, for a special trip it's worth consideration.

The 80 863 springs are the same rate as 100 866's though the 863's are an inche taller so no packers are needed.

The easy decision is dependant on the amount of lift wanted:

2-inch and 33-inch tires = 100 springs (865/866)
2.5-2.75 inch and 33-35-inch tires = 80 springs (863/864)(though for a smoother ride and with no rear steel bumper/carrier you could use 865 with 20mm packers)

The other option is to do what Doron did and just put in 864's. He has 75 gal gas, roof rack, drawers, 35's, ARB bull barm TJM rear....etc. He's ALWAYS loaded so 864's are right for him.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Couldn't you also just add some OME trim packers to add an inch of lift in the rear without buying 863's? Or am I missing something? I believe someone posted in the past (maybe Shotts?) that the spring rates for the 866's and the 863's are the same, the 863's are just longer. If that is the case, you can probably put in trim packers for $20-$30. Anybody (Christo?) have a chart with the spring rates for all of these different springs from OME? I guarantee it's not on that POS ARB website.

866's are listed as 240-300 lbf/in and 863's are listed as 250 lbf/in

Theoretically that should make the 866 progressive and the 863 not. I think the ARB application guide for 100 series is all goofed. They have a year split at 10/2000 and I have no idea why. Also, for anything prior to 10/2000 they list .25" lift as using either 860's or 863's, which is not correct since 863's gives way more list.

We run 865's for light duty and 866's for heavy with bumper. We run N101 shocks in the rear.

I also think that if you go Amando's route with subtank etc etc, 864's might do the trick. The 863's physically fit, but I have never tried them. If you start putting 80 series springs in the rear, you need to make sure the shocks are ok. Only way to do it currently is measure the extended and compressed lengths.

 

[spressomon]

866's are listed as 240-300 lbf/in and 863's are listed as 250 lbf/in

Theoretically that should make the 866 progressive and the 863 not. I think the ARB application guide for 100 series is all goofed. They have a year split at 10/2000 and I have no idea why. Also, for anything prior to 10/2000 they list .25" lift as using either 860's or 863's, which is not correct since 863's gives way more list.

We run 865's for light duty and 866's for heavy with bumper. We run N101 shocks in the rear.

I also think that if you go Amando's route with subtank etc etc, 864's might do the trick. The 863's physically fit, but I have never tried them. If you start putting 80 series springs in the rear, you need to make sure the shocks are ok. Only way to do it currently is measure the extended and compressed lengths.

So the 863/864's are not progressive? That is the one nice thing about the 866's. Maybe I'll just add 20mm packer/spacers to get the additional lift for all around use + air bladders for those heavier laden trips.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

866's are listed as 240-300 lbf/in and 863's are listed as 250 lbf/in

Theoretically that should make the 866 progressive and the 863 not. I think the ARB application guide for 100 series is all goofed. They have a year split at 10/2000 and I have no idea why. Also, for anything prior to 10/2000 they list .25" lift as using either 860's or 863's, which is not correct since 863's gives way more list.

We run 865's for light duty and 866's for heavy with bumper. We run N101 shocks in the rear.

I also think that if you go Amando's route with subtank etc etc, 864's might do the trick. The 863's physically fit, but I have never tried them. If you start putting 80 series springs in the rear, you need to make sure the shocks are ok. Only way to do it currently is measure the extended and compressed lengths.

Hmm, interesting. I remember when I Slee-bumpered up you looked up the 866 and 863 and said they were the same. ARB must have some specs goofed up. Any how, the 863's work great on my truck. The Slee bumper.....that's another story.

 

[spressomon]

Hmm, interesting. I remember when I Slee-bumpered up you looked up the 866 and 863 and said they were the same. ARB must have some specs goofed up. Any how, the 863's work great on my truck. The Slee bumper.....that's another story.

Shotts,
Did you do the measuring for the shock extension for your 863's (to make sure they don't limit the spring travel and/or top out thus loading the mounts) or just kinda flying by the seat o'your pants (not that there is anything WRONG with that )?

 

[SINCITY100]

Hmm, interesting. I remember when I Slee-bumpered up you looked up the 866 and 863 and said they were the same. ARB must have some specs goofed up. Any how, the 863's work great on my truck. The Slee bumper.....that's another story.

Shotts...

Would you elaborate on that last comment..I am considering the Slee bumper, but I really want to know if it is worth THAT MUCH MONEY !
What is your overall opinion of its strength, fit, and ease of use (I.E. Spare/Hi-lift holder).. Thanks In advance !

 

[spressomon]

Shotts...

Would you elaborate on that last comment..I am considering the Slee bumper, but I really want to know if it is worth THAT MUCH MONEY !
What is your overall opinion of its strength, fit, and ease of use (I.E. Spare/Hi-lift holder).. Thanks In advance !

FYI: I have had my Slee rr bumper for a couple weeks now. I love it. As you know spare tire's are a compromise where-ever you carry them. The Slee set-up works best for me. Did some pretty good off-roading last weekend and it performed flawlessly. I am a rattle freak...or rather an anti-rattle freak: The Slee rr bumper even with my 60" HiLift mounted absolutely is silent...regardless of terrain! My suggestion to you: Order one!

 

[SINCITY100]

Shotts...

Would you elaborate on that last comment..I am considering the Slee bumper, but I really want to know if it is worth THAT MUCH MONEY !
What is your overall opinion of its strength, fit, and ease of use (I.E. Spare/Hi-lift holder).. Thanks In advance !

Oh..do you think the built-in hitch is strong enough for a portable winch (for self-recovery) ?

 

[SINCITY100]

FYI: I have had my Slee rr bumper for a couple weeks now. I love it. As you know spare tire's are a compromise where-ever you carry them. The Slee set-up works best for me. Did some pretty good off-roading last weekend and it performed flawlessly. I am a rattle freak...or rather an anti-rattle freak: The Slee rr bumper even with my 60" HiLift mounted absolutely is silent...regardless of terrain! My suggestion to you: Order one!

Thanks for your input, as well !!
I am THISCLOSE to slapping my hard earned $$$ down on one of those bad boys !!

 

[spressomon]

Thanks for your input, as well !!
I am THISCLOSE to slapping my hard earned $$$ down on one of those bad boys !!

PM me for my phone # and I would be happy to talk directly to you about the bumper...if you want.

Dan