AltFuel '84 BJ60 3B WVO build up thread

[arnott1t]

great thanks for all that info. So i did a little more reading on WVO and some think it can harm you engine over time. The on story I read about a TDI Jetta looked bad. I know these aren't TDI's but what have the cruiser gods thought of WVO. Who has the most miles on one?

I'd love to go WVO as it seem great but I'd like to have a little more confidence long term before taking the plunge.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Maybe I should and read through John Galts many pages but I do not have the time.


So my question is about the acidity, is thier a way to test and adjust?


I thought this was the major concern for damaging pumps and injectors?

Thanks for the great thread.

Rob

 

[haryv]

MrMoMo,

What you did to your bj60 as far as building up a WVO system for it, I did this to my land cruiser about 4 years ago. Some of the installation is simular. I used the goldenrod for prefiltering out of a container. It did not take long to plug. Doing wvo can be messy so be forwarned. I like your tank but also, I made a template that hugs the fenderwell where the tank can ride over the fenderwell. I measured capacity about 7 gallons. Not much. I was thinking it would be better to remove old tank and put in two seperate fuel tanks one for wvo and one for fuel. IF you made another tank, what would you charge for it?

Now, I had to rebuild all my injectors. I cannot for cirtain say that the wvo had anything to do with its wear paterns. But over a 6-12 month period, noticed a degradation of the injector seats. Was this attributed to the wvo? who knows. Acid in overcooked wvo is usally the culprit.

What did you use for a fuel sender? Another stock land cruiser fuel sender ?

 

[ForealBoreal]

i really want your notfox.
i might have to weld one up myself.
hows the system running for you?
anything you would change?

 

[MrMoMo]

So i did a little more reading on WVO and some think it can harm you engine over time. The on story I read about a TDI Jetta looked bad.

I'd be willing to bet they were running bad oil, or not running it at the proper temps. I have a friend with a Jetta TDI, who has been running as long as I have. We both switched over within a few weeks of each other. He has had no problems at all. Proper filtering to get the water out (verify with a Hot Pan Test), only run it at temp, always purge and you'll be fine. It's very easy to get careless and run crap oil - that will kill your engine.

Maybe I should and read through John Galts many pages but I do not have the time.

So my question is about the acidity, is thier a way to test and adjust?

Hmmm.. Yes, you should read his pages. As much as he can be a bit of a dinkus, he knows some good sheet. I don't test for acidity - I'm sure I should - I'll probably kill my engine(s)/injectors/pumps but I have had great luck so far.

I used the goldenrod for prefiltering out of a container. It did not take long to plug.

Hmm, you were probably doing it cold weren't you? Filters clog very quicly with cold oil. My pre-filter setup I filter the oil through the goldenrod at about 40°C. I also heat cycle the oil a few times (24hour period to cool) for a week before I filter it. I do this in a 55Gallon steel drum that is insulated and has an electric heater element in it. This allows a lot of the free water to precipitate out to the bottom - where it sits (I suck the oil from above the bottom) I should also mention, that this oil has already passed through 600,400,200 & 100 micron filters, and usually sits in the sun for a few months before this process begins...

Doing wvo can be messy so be forwarned.

Hells yeah! CAN be? Until you get a good system, it WILL be! (and can still be!) I have most of my filtering setup done through piping and pumps, so I rarely have spills now - but folks starting out need to be prepared for a mess!!

IF you made another tank, what would you charge for it?

Well, it's tough to say - I wouldn't make another one like that, I'd make one like the one I just made, but even not quite like that! My new tank is 9" high, fully insulated and a little different (some R&D component involved in it for work). Bottom line, if I was to make another tank, it would be low, wide and as big as you can stand!

Now, I had to rebuild all my injectors. I cannot for cirtain say that the wvo had anything to do with its wear paterns. But over a 6-12 month period, noticed a degradation of the injector seats.

I pulled my injectors after a year, and they were almost perfect. No signs of wear at all. I swapped in a different set and there was absolutely no change in performance. I think I can safely say that the oil I am burning, in the way I am burning it is not causing damage to my engine. I have done about 20K km with veggie with no obvious ill effects. (not saying there is nothing, just saying I don't see anything) I only run when the engine is up to temp, and I always purge. I only ever run oil that I have fully processed - and I don't take shortcuts in my processing.

What did you use for a fuel sender? Another stock land cruiser fuel sender ?

First tank was just a Princess Auto fuel sender, I think it was about $10 - same with the gauge. Second tank I used a WEMA marine fuel sender - much nicer - but still bounces around quite a bit. WEMA sender was about $60. Not sure if I'd go for the difference again...

i really want your notfox.
i might have to weld one up myself.
hows the system running for you?
anything you would change?

Yeah, the notfox is pretty popular! So far I have made 3 and a friend has made 1. More to come as tanks are changing, and more vehilces on the list to be converted. (my wife has a BJ70 and I have a Case 580 backhoe to convert!)

Changes... I'd like to add a second valve to allow for quicker purges... It's more complicated, but it would bypass the stock filter when running veggie - and thus reduce the quantity of diesel required to purge out the veggie. 3 minutes isn't bad, but compared to the 8 seconds my ford takes.... it drops the efficiency quite a bit!

Other than that... the system has been pretty bullet proof. Ran great all winter, no problems coming up to temp, no purge problems... Happy camper!

New tank - aluminum, around 110L, insulated, better filling, vented to the filler neck, with sight tube (much easier filling!)

And best of all, it's now hidden under this! :

Which means I can sleep in the back now!

 

[ForealBoreal]

you mind sharing your design for the "notfox"
or you could send it to me via email

i am currently designing a heated filter out of a block of aluminum

 

[TLC Norway]

wow, this thread is amazing...
as i am surfing the web for solutions, this might seem to be a setup i could use.
i like the idea of purgeing for 8 seconds, rather than 3 minutes. could you explain this setup?
I really like the idea of alternative fuel, but i also like the idea of having a lot of space avavible in the truck, so i'd have to go for an external tank.
For how many miles/kilometers do you run a 100liter tank?
As soon as i get my own shed or garage, i WILL make space for the filtering and storage process. Hopefully i can find a place around here that will give me the oil...

Maybe you can stick up your main references as links?
again, thanks for the thread, as i dont like to invent the wheel more than once!

Pål, Norway

 

[MrMoMo]

i like the idea of purgeing for 8 seconds, rather than 3 minutes. could you explain this setup?

Unfortunately, it's part of the vehicle design. The Ford with the 7.3L diesel has an electric fuel pump, which pressurizes the fuel system, and the heads/fuel rail. When I run veggie, I switch to a second fuel pump (from the veggie tank). The 7.3 has what is known as a "dead head", where fuel enters one end of the head, but can only exit through the injectors. Both heads are the same, but rotated 180°, so fuel enters at opposite ends. Because the heads are the same, there is an un-used port at the opposite end of each head - this is where the veggie enters. There is a check valve on the diesel inlet lines (one on each head), and a check valve on the veggie inlet line (single check valve, on the main feed line, which feeds a distribution block, which feeds the heads.) Also on this distribution block, there is a solenoid valve, which allows (when open) fuel to return to the veggie tank. The quick purge is due to the ability to pressurize the system with diesel, and open the purge valve - so the diesel forces the veggie out of the heads. When the truck runs on diesel, it can't go back down the veggie line because of the check valve in the veggie line. When the truck runs on veggie, the veggie can't go down the lines to the diesel tank, because of the check valves. Both fuels can return to the veggie tank when the purge valve is open. This also makes filter changes dead simple, as it purges all the air out of the system, and back to the tank. The stock fuel pump runs about 60PSI if I recall, and the veggie pump has a regulator that is set at 80PSI. At these pressures it does not take long to move a LOT of fuel around when you open up a 1/2" purge line.

(simple?!)

The Toyota 3B uses a lift pump, and does not move NEAR the quantity of fuel, so opening a purge valve would only lower the pressure of fuel going to the injectors, which would make the enginen run like crap... (in my best guess!?) My "quick purge" for the 3B will not be as quick as that for the ford, but by bypassing the stock toyota filter when running veggie, it will drastically reduce the quantity of veggie in the system, (only the veggie in the lift pump, injector pump and lines will need to be purged out, instead of all the oil in the fuel filter) I figure this will at least cut the purge time in half, maybe more. I would be happy with a purge time of 30 seconds to a minute. I'll control this with a turbo timer - so once you turn the ignition of, it automatically switches back to diesel/purge and shuts down after a set time (which I will have to figure out when I install the system)

I really like the idea of alternative fuel, but i also like the idea of having a lot of space avavible in the truck, so i'd have to go for an external tank.

You would be surprised how much fuel you can fit in a small space. If you want to maximize your payload capacity, think about making a long, wide, flat tank... A 4' x 4' tank that is only 2" thick will hold almost 20 gallons (US) measure out your trunk space carefully, and make a tank that fits the whole thing. I'm sure you wouldn't notice a loss of 2" of height. (though you would have to make a good sump to collect the oil, as it would slosh around a lot) Heating a large flat tank might create some interesting challenges, but I'm sure it could be done.... (think of a stainless coil with coolant running through it, inserted into the tank)

I was surprised to find that I can fit an 18 gallon tank in my wifes BJ70 trunk, which has almost no trunk space at all. This still leaves room for groceries and miscellanious stuff. This is a simple rectangular tank - I could probably push it a bit more and easily get the tank to 20 or so gallons if I needed to. (The stock diesel tank is 90L, 20 gallons is ~75L)

For how many miles/kilometers do you run a 100liter tank?

Milage is almost (if not completely) identical to diesel... But really, if I was getting 1/2 the milage on veggie, It wouldn't concern me THAT much, because I don't have to pay for it!

As soon as i get my own shed or garage, i WILL make space for the filtering and storage process.

If you have room to store 2 55gallon drums (208L) that's all you need (to process) you will likely need more room to store oil that you have not yet processed) I currently have a few 55 gallon drums of oil, as well as a 1000L tote, plus about 50 5 gallon pails, and 50 16L cubies... in a shed!

Maybe you can stick up your main references as links?
again, thanks for the thread, as i dont like to invent the wheel more than once!

Pål, Norway

Hmm... I can work on that I guess... Right now I'm off to filter some veggie!!!

 

[MrMoMo]

you mind sharing your design for the "notfox"
or you could send it to me via email

delanuez@gmail.com

i am currently designing a heated filter out of a block of aluminum

It's really pretty simple... Imagine a big tube of coolant, with a small tube of oil running through it.....

 

[TLC Norway]

wow, thanks for the replies, made me think of this even more!
and with a controller that shuts down the engine after purging, this would be awsome!
so now i need space, time, veggie, beer, cans, hoses bits and pieces and im going for it!

P

 

[MrMoMo]

20,000 Km and still running strong!

For anyone following this thread still, or just discovering it, I am still running pretty much the same system I started with. The few minor changes I have made... I started out with the 6 port motor driven Pollak valve. DONT use it. Mine failed before I even got to use it. I replaced it with the 3-port Hydraforce valve and have not had a single issue since. I love it. Other change? I changed my tank. The only other things I have changed are filters (just maintenance!) I love the way this system works, and Its simplicity.

Cubie count...

Just picked up 9 today
have another 9 in the shed
26 more sitting in the sun
45 5 gallon pails in the shed
2 55 gallon (208L) drums full of bulk oil in the sun
2 55 gallon drums full of 100 micron oil
800L of 400 micron oil in a tote in the sun

That's a rough total of 2500L stocked or in process.... It's free, but there is definitely work involved!!

For anyone interested, I have created a Facebook Group - "Veggie powered LandCruisers" So, if you're on facebook and want to meet other veggie cruiserheads, check it out!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Man, I would love to have a diesel so I could do this. Fantastic work!

 

[moosecruiser]

now it is tme for me to make a system similar .
mrmomo has helped me every step of the way with my system . we finished my tank and filter install(bj60/84) mere minutes befor leaving for a wheeling trip and nearly 1000 km of driving for a breakin drive . i have down and dirty manual ball valves and am hoping before the snow flies to go to a 3way selenoid valve . other than that i am happy with the 3b and the cruiser preformance .
if there is anything about this stuff that Mrmomo has taught me ,it is that anyone can do this stuff with a little time , intelligence and a meticulous behaviour towards dillegance . you get what you put into these systems ,cut corners and you get a less than stellar product and your truck takes the impact .
taking the time and steps nessacary to get good oil and allow the process to happen.
love my cruiser and the veggie system to boot . make it happen the tools are out there and you can do it .
mike

 

[MrMoMo]

Man, I would love to have a diesel so I could do this. Fantastic work!

Might just be able to hook you up with that if you really want it!!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Might just be able to hook you up with that if you really want it!!

I'd trade you my M416 for a diesel

I need to get up to that area to meet you guys. I was in the 1000 islands about a month ago for a quick vacation just outside of Clayton. Winter wheeling?

 

[MrMoMo]

I'm sure we can find some trails around here somewhere!! I'd love an M416. Problem is I'm trying to reduce my toys at this point!! If you are seriously interested in a 3B let me know.

 

[MrMoMo]

FYI - still running strong!

For anyone wondering, I have not fallen off the face of the earth, and I am still running this truck, and still running it on Veggie!! Still runs great! I've spent a lot of time over the last year and a half building a new house, and a new shop, and I am now in the process of re-building my filtering system, and I have approximately 3500L of oil waiting to be processed.

Once my new set up is up and running, I'll post a few pics. The huge advantage of the new set up will be that my new shop is going to be heated by a veggie boiler, which will in turn heat the veggie processing tanks...

Hope this thread is still giving useful information to people who want to try it! don't be scared - it does work!

 

[magnus_heydoc]

I've got somewhere b/t 60000 and 80000kms on my 3B SVO set-up with no major problems. Using a 110v 250-1000w pad heater on the bottom of my metal holding barrels for my in-garage WVO filtration system seems to have worked well over the last 5 years. Cheap and easy to build.
The only challenge I see with your set-up is the on-board SVO filter is in the way of any servicing you might need to do with your injector hard lines. IE. bleeding them etc.
It looks like you'd have to remove the filter and /or housing to get wrenches on the hard line fittings. That would be irritating.
There's a thread here somewhere where I posted motor oil test results as well. Everything seems in line with other 3Bs with respect to wear that are running dino diesel. Meaning running SVO seems very similar to dino.
The troubles you read about concerning TDI VW is b/c it's a different animal all together. IE. rotary pump (I think?), direct injection and an ECU. Our old rigs are simpler and more robust built pumps and seem to tolerate a lot more irregularities of the fuel. Even 'normal' diesel can mess up a TDI over time if they get 'bad batches'. Diesel is so dirty sometimes it has specs in the fuel to the eye. If you compare it to JetA for instance which is crystal clear, dino is yellow.
best
aaron

 

[rustybucket]

Hi john.

I think I drove my truck for a year on cleaned WVO then after a period of time, started to experiance reduced fuel economy. As week after week passed, the fuel economy got worse and worse. I speculated it was the injectors and removed them. I took the injectors to a fuel injector repair shop on river road in delta "now out of business" to have them inspected. The shop owner said they were worn, so he told me to get the parts from another shop in Burnaby??? and then come back and would rebuild them. After I installed them, the fuel economy returned.

So, now the question is...was it acidity that made have quickly eroded the injectors? I do not want to try wvo again until I know, and can avoid old acid based WVO.

 

[John Galt]

was it acidity that made have quickly eroded the injectors?

Possibly acid, or water...