I got to say, this is one of the most informative, best threads on MUD. I am learning a tremendous amount from you guys.
AltFuel '84 BJ60 3B WVO build up thread
- Thread starter MrMoMo
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
Moving forward again!!
Well I had to spend the morning re-building my rear shock mounts, but that's a
different story!
With that out of the way I got back to the important stuff.
Got the tank almost finished today, only one spot left open on it - my "inspection/assembly" plate. The fuel draw & coolant loop will go into the top right beside this plate - the plate will be rivited on, so I can remove it if I need to. - don't worry, there will be pictures
Other than welding in the fittings, the only thing left to do on the tank is air test it - I don't want to waste 110L of veggie oil to find out if it leaks! After that I can insulate it and install it
Next step is to mount the coolant heated filter in the engine compartment, and run the rest of the lines.
Well I had to spend the morning re-building my rear shock mounts, but that's a
different story!
With that out of the way I got back to the important stuff.
Got the tank almost finished today, only one spot left open on it - my "inspection/assembly" plate. The fuel draw & coolant loop will go into the top right beside this plate - the plate will be rivited on, so I can remove it if I need to. - don't worry, there will be pictures
Other than welding in the fittings, the only thing left to do on the tank is air test it - I don't want to waste 110L of veggie oil to find out if it leaks! After that I can insulate it and install it
Next step is to mount the coolant heated filter in the engine compartment, and run the rest of the lines.
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- Thread starter
- #43
Just a couple other random shots I have that may be of interest to some people.
1) Nice clean oil...
2) Oil in the barrel, with the heater element (picture taken through barrel bung!)
3) Nasty Nasty Nasty junk in the filter. After 55 Gallons (208L) the filter was pretty much clogged. (going from 100 micron to 10!) Even still, at ~$6 for a filter it only cost me = ~$0.03/L !!!!!!! The nastyness flowing out of the filter is a result of backflowing the filter momentarily. I would do this and then leave for 10 minutes to allow the junk to settle to the bottom of the filter bowl. After 55G the filter bowl was full of this junk. - Just plain NASTY!
1) Nice clean oil...
2) Oil in the barrel, with the heater element (picture taken through barrel bung!)
3) Nasty Nasty Nasty junk in the filter. After 55 Gallons (208L) the filter was pretty much clogged. (going from 100 micron to 10!) Even still, at ~$6 for a filter it only cost me = ~$0.03/L !!!!!!! The nastyness flowing out of the filter is a result of backflowing the filter momentarily. I would do this and then leave for 10 minutes to allow the junk to settle to the bottom of the filter bowl. After 55G the filter bowl was full of this junk. - Just plain NASTY!
- Thread starter
- #44
From what I have read, and found online - this appears to be dry oil.
This is what my oil looks like in a hot pan test.
Oil smeared on bottom of pan until it smokes, then a 1/4" layer poured in.
No bubbles, just heat lines - which I think are OK... anyone care to comment?
This is what my oil looks like in a hot pan test.
Oil smeared on bottom of pan until it smokes, then a 1/4" layer poured in.
No bubbles, just heat lines - which I think are OK... anyone care to comment?
W O W !
Yes that looks to be clear clean dry oil.
My VO processor goes from ~100µ [bugscreen/pantyhose] to ~20µ [jeans leg bag filter] to 5µ [whole house water filter]. Most of the 'stuff' gets caught in the first screen, nearly all of the rest settles out in the upflow barrel. A little 'crud' collects in the bottom of the bag filter, and the 5µ water filter cartridge lasts for hundreds of gallons.
My VO processor goes from ~100µ [bugscreen/pantyhose] to ~20µ [jeans leg bag filter] to 5µ [whole house water filter]. Most of the 'stuff' gets caught in the first screen, nearly all of the rest settles out in the upflow barrel. A little 'crud' collects in the bottom of the bag filter, and the 5µ water filter cartridge lasts for hundreds of gallons.
- Thread starter
- #47
Good to know, thanks.
I assume you are using the "sediment" filters, not the carbon ones... I saw these on ebay the other day and wondered if they would work.
like this;
Whole House Water Filter/Sediment/Biodiesel wvo svo/RO - eBay (item 360035657222 end time Mar-27-08 09:31:20 PDT)
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I'm using a 5µ sediment filter cartridge in a similar, but single stage filter.
rainfresh advantage
A hand crank barrel pump pushes the oil through the cartridge filter after it's been bag filtered at ~20µ.
A filter cartridge is very inexpensive and easy to replace.
rainfresh advantage
A hand crank barrel pump pushes the oil through the cartridge filter after it's been bag filtered at ~20µ.
A filter cartridge is very inexpensive and easy to replace.
5µ... Hmmm! Made me smile and look for the alt character codes this morning... 
Seriously, I would love to see your setup
Where exactly is Possum Lake anyway? Nipissing area by any chance? I have fond memories of that area, had a hippy friend there living off grid that I've unfortunately neglected to visit...
Seriously, I would love to see your setup
Where exactly is Possum Lake anyway? Nipissing area by any chance? I have fond memories of that area, had a hippy friend there living off grid that I've unfortunately neglected to visit...
MrMoMo,
just want to thank you for a great thread- or two.
I have subscribed to both and will be eagerly following.
I am looking into converting my 3B to a two tank WVO system at some point- IF I can manage to get a reliable source of oil in this city (Melbourne is apparantly quite dry now that big companies have moved into oil collection)
I am still in the early stages of research however.
Asking about the 3B elsewhere I have been told by two people that their 3B's actually ran better on WVO/SVO than on Dino- one of whom did some partial verification of this 'intuition' with some 'limited Dyno testing'.
anyway- keep up the good work- I am learning heaps.
Hans.
just want to thank you for a great thread- or two.
I have subscribed to both and will be eagerly following.
I am looking into converting my 3B to a two tank WVO system at some point- IF I can manage to get a reliable source of oil in this city (Melbourne is apparantly quite dry now that big companies have moved into oil collection)
I am still in the early stages of research however.
Asking about the 3B elsewhere I have been told by two people that their 3B's actually ran better on WVO/SVO than on Dino- one of whom did some partial verification of this 'intuition' with some 'limited Dyno testing'.
anyway- keep up the good work- I am learning heaps.
Hans.
- Thread starter
- #51
OK guys, I PROMISE an update soon. I am very close to done now but with the warm weather here now I spend much less time at the computer!! Have no fear, I have still been taking lots of pictures - and will post them here.
I would have been done this weekend, but my Pollak valve failed!! (I'm glad it failed when it did - BEFORE I started using it. I had heard bad things about these valves, but already had it!!) Thankfully a 3-port solenoid valve is in the mail to replace it.
Props to Edward Beggs @ Plantdrive.ca for the hassle free swap to get me up and running again.
Update soon!
I would have been done this weekend, but my Pollak valve failed!! (I'm glad it failed when it did - BEFORE I started using it. I had heard bad things about these valves, but already had it!!) Thankfully a 3-port solenoid valve is in the mail to replace it.
Props to Edward Beggs @ Plantdrive.ca for the hassle free swap to get me up and running again.
Update soon!
- Thread starter
- #52
OK folks, get ready update on the way!
a quick cubie count today left me with this observation...
15 cubies in the greenhouse (great multi purpose here, the greenhouse heats the cubies up during the day, and the cubies keep the greenhouse warmer into the night!)
8 cubies against the wall beside the greenhouse.
12 cubies in the garage
12 cubies inside
2 filtered, clean, ready to go cubies
1 55G drum full of 10micron oil
1 55G drum 1/2 full of 100 micron oil
So... I figure that gets me with about 235G (888L) of unfiltered oil, 25G (95L) of partially filtered oil and 65G (245L) of filtered oil. Total count of 325G (1230L) of oil!! YOWZA!! I better get moving!
At todays rate, that equates to over $1500 in free fuel sitting around waiting to be used!!
OK, back to the build thread!!
a quick cubie count today left me with this observation...
15 cubies in the greenhouse (great multi purpose here, the greenhouse heats the cubies up during the day, and the cubies keep the greenhouse warmer into the night!)
8 cubies against the wall beside the greenhouse.
12 cubies in the garage
12 cubies inside
2 filtered, clean, ready to go cubies
1 55G drum full of 10micron oil
1 55G drum 1/2 full of 100 micron oil
So... I figure that gets me with about 235G (888L) of unfiltered oil, 25G (95L) of partially filtered oil and 65G (245L) of filtered oil. Total count of 325G (1230L) of oil!! YOWZA!! I better get moving!
At todays rate, that equates to over $1500 in free fuel sitting around waiting to be used!!
OK, back to the build thread!!
- Thread starter
- #53
Ok, so back in time a bit here... about a month I think.
Got the filter bracket made... Hacked up a few bits of scrap steel angle (I have about 300' of this stuff) I believe it is about 1-1/4" x 1-1/4" x 3/32"... not that it really matters. I drilled the two pieces that bolt to the filter, then bolted them on. Using a vice grip clamp I set the angle of the other two, to match the angle of the fender. Then I tacked them together and checked my angle. After confirming it was what I wanted, I unbolted it from the filter and welded it up, painted it with woodstove paint (I had it, and it's meant for high heat!) Presto... one custom filter bracket.
Mounted to the fender with 4, 1/4-20 pan head screws, large washers and ny-lock nuts (all 316 SS) head of the screw is down, nut is up. Makes it easy to see if one starts to back off without sticking my head in the wheel well and looking at globs of mud.
Got the filter bracket made... Hacked up a few bits of scrap steel angle (I have about 300' of this stuff) I believe it is about 1-1/4" x 1-1/4" x 3/32"... not that it really matters. I drilled the two pieces that bolt to the filter, then bolted them on. Using a vice grip clamp I set the angle of the other two, to match the angle of the fender. Then I tacked them together and checked my angle. After confirming it was what I wanted, I unbolted it from the filter and welded it up, painted it with woodstove paint (I had it, and it's meant for high heat!) Presto... one custom filter bracket.
Mounted to the fender with 4, 1/4-20 pan head screws, large washers and ny-lock nuts (all 316 SS) head of the screw is down, nut is up. Makes it easy to see if one starts to back off without sticking my head in the wheel well and looking at globs of mud.
- Thread starter
- #54
So, next up was finishing the tank...
When I thought I was done, I took the tank to work, and pressure tested it by hooking up an air line (with regulator) and spraying it with soapy water. Anywhere you get bubbles coming out, there is a hole. I had a few pinholes, either where I missed the edge of the plate (oops) or had a pinhole in the weld. I patched them up and was ready for the next step.
I hole sawed the 3 holes I needed in the top of the tank, 1 for the fuel pickup/heater, one for the tank level sender, and the one I almost forgot.... the fuel fill. I wouldn't have gotten very far without that one!! Once I finished the tank, I cleaned it off and primed it with pro-form self etching primer. Once that was clean, I painted it with the spray on box liner. Not really all that impressed with the stuff, It wasn't what I had planned on using, but they were out of what I wanted. I was hoping for Pro-form box liner that you roll on. We use it at work frequently and it gives a really nice grippy finish when applied with a stucco roller. I think I might re-paint the back of the tank when we have some extra at work. (the back will see the most wear from trunk item "rubbage".
The fuel fill is currently just a weld in 2" NPT "tank flange" from Princess Auto. I tried to come up with a better fill... but this was just the easiest. I can always change it later! The level sender is also from Princess Auto, very basic and standard float type sender. Now, I bet you're looking at that nice stainless steel tube in my hand...
That's my NotFox®©. Just kidding - it's not copyrighted or registered. I either figured out how they make a hotfox, or I came up with a new design - I've never seen the inside of a hotfox so I don't know. I do know that it cost me a LOT less than a hotfox. helps when you have buddies who TIG all day long. If I can get enough interest in these pickups, I'd consider fabricating a few - not mass produced or anything (unless there is a demand!). Like I said, it was a lot cheaper than I could get a hotfox for, so I did it. My tank is 14" deep, and this goes about 13-1/2" down. I wanted to leave a bit on the bottom for a final protection against goop sucking uppage.
So with the tank painted, it was time to start installing all the bits. The access port is held down with a whack of #8-32 machine screws. Drilling and tapping all them took a bit of work, but was totally worth it.
Here is where I made stupid tank mistake #1. The plan was, with that nice big rectangular hole... to stick my arm/shop vac inside the tank and get every last bit of steel & dust out of the tank. Can you guess what I did? First thing... sealed up and bolted down the nice big plate. Then had to vacuum out all the crap through the small holes.
Then I had bright idea # 1
Stick a magnet on the bottom surface of the tank just below the pickup - this way if there happened to be any small particles of steel left in the tank, they would stick to the magnet on the way to getting sucked up by the fuel pickup!! YAY... I'm smart again!!
Now, you note that there is a #1 stupid mistake, that should lead you to believe that there is a #2. You are correct. Just after perfectly placing the magnet of bright idea #1, I flipped the tank up on end to get all the last bits out with the vacuum. I have NO idea where the magnet went, but it's NOT in the vacuum. So I now have 2 magnets in my tank, one of which is just under the fuel pickup. 
When I thought I was done, I took the tank to work, and pressure tested it by hooking up an air line (with regulator) and spraying it with soapy water. Anywhere you get bubbles coming out, there is a hole. I had a few pinholes, either where I missed the edge of the plate (oops) or had a pinhole in the weld. I patched them up and was ready for the next step.
I hole sawed the 3 holes I needed in the top of the tank, 1 for the fuel pickup/heater, one for the tank level sender, and the one I almost forgot.... the fuel fill. I wouldn't have gotten very far without that one!! Once I finished the tank, I cleaned it off and primed it with pro-form self etching primer. Once that was clean, I painted it with the spray on box liner. Not really all that impressed with the stuff, It wasn't what I had planned on using, but they were out of what I wanted. I was hoping for Pro-form box liner that you roll on. We use it at work frequently and it gives a really nice grippy finish when applied with a stucco roller. I think I might re-paint the back of the tank when we have some extra at work. (the back will see the most wear from trunk item "rubbage".
The fuel fill is currently just a weld in 2" NPT "tank flange" from Princess Auto. I tried to come up with a better fill... but this was just the easiest. I can always change it later! The level sender is also from Princess Auto, very basic and standard float type sender. Now, I bet you're looking at that nice stainless steel tube in my hand...
That's my NotFox®©. Just kidding - it's not copyrighted or registered. I either figured out how they make a hotfox, or I came up with a new design - I've never seen the inside of a hotfox so I don't know. I do know that it cost me a LOT less than a hotfox. helps when you have buddies who TIG all day long. If I can get enough interest in these pickups, I'd consider fabricating a few - not mass produced or anything (unless there is a demand!). Like I said, it was a lot cheaper than I could get a hotfox for, so I did it. My tank is 14" deep, and this goes about 13-1/2" down. I wanted to leave a bit on the bottom for a final protection against goop sucking uppage.
So with the tank painted, it was time to start installing all the bits. The access port is held down with a whack of #8-32 machine screws. Drilling and tapping all them took a bit of work, but was totally worth it.
Here is where I made stupid tank mistake #1. The plan was, with that nice big rectangular hole... to stick my arm/shop vac inside the tank and get every last bit of steel & dust out of the tank. Can you guess what I did? First thing... sealed up and bolted down the nice big plate. Then had to vacuum out all the crap through the small holes.
Then I had bright idea # 1
Stick a magnet on the bottom surface of the tank just below the pickup - this way if there happened to be any small particles of steel left in the tank, they would stick to the magnet on the way to getting sucked up by the fuel pickup!! YAY... I'm smart again!! Now, you note that there is a #1 stupid mistake, that should lead you to believe that there is a #2. You are correct. Just after perfectly placing the magnet of bright idea #1, I flipped the tank up on end to get all the last bits out with the vacuum. I have NO idea where the magnet went, but it's NOT in the vacuum.
So I now have 2 magnets in my tank, one of which is just under the fuel pickup.
- Thread starter
- #55
The tank installed, lines hooked up and a temporary fill neck!! (plastic 2" hose barb with a washer bottle cap on it!!!)
1) the tank!
2) Huh? learning about "threads" and "nuts" and "bolts"
3) Ever seen a train of new trains? I Wonder what thats worth!!
Ok, ok... back on topic!!
1) the tank!
2) Huh? learning about "threads" and "nuts" and "bolts"
3) Ever seen a train of new trains? I Wonder what thats worth!!
Ok, ok... back on topic!!
nice stuff! I want your notfox...
- Thread starter
- #58
Hmmm... I really should get around to that. Been driving it for about 8 months now and just about to do my FIRST filter change!! (not looking forward to that!)
System appears to have been working great - I am always careful to wait for full operating temperature before switching over, and have only forgotten a few times to switch back, before I arrived! (Hand throttle is great!)
Filtering good clean oil makes things much eaiser - as you can tell by me not needing to change filters very often! My oil source is VERY clean and I have absolutely no complaints so far. I bet I will after changing this first filter though!!!
Thanks for resurrecting this thread... what would you like to see pictures of?
System appears to have been working great - I am always careful to wait for full operating temperature before switching over, and have only forgotten a few times to switch back, before I arrived! (Hand throttle is great!)
Filtering good clean oil makes things much eaiser - as you can tell by me not needing to change filters very often! My oil source is VERY clean and I have absolutely no complaints so far. I bet I will after changing this first filter though!!!
Thanks for resurrecting this thread... what would you like to see pictures of?
I had a couple questions about the three port valve. This is used to switch from diesel to oil correct? Do you notice any hiccup in performance when switching. Does the idle change?
How long do you have to purge in order to get the oil out and the diesel in? Any power difference running on oil vs diesel?
Great set up. Could you post more pics of the valveing and filter set up?
Thanks,
How long do you have to purge in order to get the oil out and the diesel in? Any power difference running on oil vs diesel?
Great set up. Could you post more pics of the valveing and filter set up?
Thanks,
- Thread starter
- #60
Yes, the valve is used to switch over from one fuel to the other. I have it set up so that it is normally on diesel, and when you power the valve it switches to veggie. That way if it fails, or the power to it fails, it automatically defaults to diesel. This was one of the things I did not like about the Pollack style valve that uses a motor to drive from one position to the other. If power is lost when in veggie mode, there is no going back.
My purge is currently about 3Km - or 3 minutes.. I have set points in my day to day routes where I know to switch over. I have recently thought of a way to reduce this time, by adding another valve. I'll do this on my wifes truck when I convert it, but I'm not at all bothered by the time on mine.
I'll see if I can get some shots of the filter/valve setup... it's pretty tight in there for space so I'm not sure how much more detail I can get!!
My purge is currently about 3Km - or 3 minutes.. I have set points in my day to day routes where I know to switch over. I have recently thought of a way to reduce this time, by adding another valve. I'll do this on my wifes truck when I convert it, but I'm not at all bothered by the time on mine.
I'll see if I can get some shots of the filter/valve setup... it's pretty tight in there for space so I'm not sure how much more detail I can get!!