80 series head gasket as preventative maint?

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Oh give me a break. You DO realize that the Toyota FIPG is just the same Permatex stuff in a plain white tube with a Toyota part number on it?

Seriously, I've used similar products MANY MANY times and never had an issue.
 
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its not the same stuff:rolleyes: RTV stands for "room temperature vocalization" and FIPG stands for "form in place gasket" RTV will squeeze out of a place you're using it on when you tighten it up, FIPG won't. FIPG will also set up a lot faster then RTV. i can go on and on but i don't fell like debating any further
 
As general rule the gray is only available from the factory and the recommended factory replacement is Black.

I suppose someone could use the gray RTV you posted but I don't see a factory shop doing so or anyone doing the head as the factory stuff isn't that expensive and you are at the dealer anyway for the rest of the parts.

But I guess anything is possible.

The only reason to remove those pieces is a head job or valve lash adjustment. Because the valve lash adjustment is such a colossal PITA and very expensive almost nobody does it. That's why most will consider gray FPIG to indicate an original HG.

Another indicator used is to view the seem of the seem of the head to the block at the rear on the exhaust side. Most HG fail back there and the gasket can be seen to have creaped out between the two.

But this is also not 100%, The only tried and true way to be 100% sure is to pull the head.
 
landtank said:
As general rule the gray is only available from the factory and the recommended factory replacement is Black.

I suppose someone could use the gray RTV you posted but I don't see a factory shop doing so or anyone doing the head as the factory stuff isn't that expensive and you are at the dealer anyway for the rest of the parts.
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I guess I don't quite get it. That gray RTV/FIPG KLF posted is available everywhere not just "from the factory". I've worked in and around plenty of shops that use it daily with no issues. Why is Toyota FIPG THAT much better that I'd get some if I had gray, black or red on hand already? Buy OEM gaskets, seals and hard parts? Sure. But OEM oil, bearings (like wheel bearings and knuckle bearings) and gasket goop? Seems like you're buyin an expensive red box but not any better product than whats at the parts store for less. YRMV of course.

Nick
 
I'm not sure why this basic concept seems to be so hard to grasp. The factory assembled motor had gray FPIG. If the failure was early on it was most likely done at a dealer and they most likely would have used the Toyota FPIG which would be black.

The original owners of these $50,000.00 new vehicles weren't your typical home mechanics. The majority would go to the dealer for all repairs.

And as far as using Toyota's FPIG, if I'm into an engine to the point where I need to use it I've got so much time invested that I'm not going with anything else. Use what you want but I'm more confident using the stuff that got that engine to 220k mile the first time.

The state of any HG that hasn't failed is an unknown until it's pulled. If you own an 80 series it's tough because there was a problem with the original design and at some point failure is imminent. Everyone needs to deal with it in their own way. I personally chose to replace it as a PM as I had owned the truck since it had 38k miles on it and was confident it was the original HG. Now that these trucks have changed hands a few times and service records have been lost it's harder to determine if the HG has been done and what the best course of action is. The color of the FPIG and the bulging at the rear seam is about all we have been able to come up with to date in making a best guess.

But if your idea is to wait for the failure and then use permatex or whatever gasket sealer then by all means go for it. It's your truck and your money.
 
Hi Rick:

This thread kinda got off-track, but I think it's worth the discussion.

I am all about using 100% Toyota parts, that's for sure. Especially seals and gaskets. When I buy diff rebuild kits, I throw away the cheesy aftermarket pinion seal and go buy an OEM one, even it it's an additional $20. But the bearings in the kits? Yup, same exact Koyo bearings that you wll get it you went to Toyota to get them.

I think the one mistake you are making is assuming that the Toyota dealer tech will use only Toyota FIPG, and that's just not the case. My son used to work at one, and they use the same Permatex stuff that we all use, they get it delivered by NAPA. Heck, sometimes they don't even use OEM parts! (brake pads, calipers, CV shafts, etc). Just because there's a big TOYOTA sign out front, it doesn't necessarily mean you're getting the best care for your vehicle.

This kinda reminds me of the debate I once saw where someone tried to convice us on the 3FE list that Toyota brake fluid was "special" and using anything else would rot out your brakes. Or the ranting I saw on a Volvo list where one guy insisted that Volvo lightbulbs were superior. Toyota doesn't make their own sealants or fluids, they just have another company (probably the lowest bidder) stick a different label on the bottle or tube.

I have bought some of the Toyota sealants, in particular that red stuff they use on the the t-cases and trannys is nice and I've yet to see a similar aftermarket product. But the black FIPG that the FSM calls for when doing the oil pan on a 22R engine is EXACTLY the same as the Permatex stuff, I'm sure of it. I tested it and the second half of the Toyota part number is the same number as the Permatex number. The last few oil pans I used the Permatex "Right Stuff" in the cheez-whiz can, and it's really good.

I bow to your knowledge of the 80-series, that's for sure.
 
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"So, you're saying that if someone used RTV on those half-moon plugs, then they should completely replace the entire headgasket?"[/QUOTE]

that was a joke sorry my humor is very dry
 
Well Ken, you can shoot holes in any theory but with something like this you hope to base a best guess on something. It's an odds thing. I want to think that most Toyota dealers would use the factory stuff and it would seem that you think otherwise.

So back on topic, How would you best guess if Dave's HG was replaced or not?
 
I am pretty sure mine is not and its killing me. My 7 hour drive to Marfa, TX this holiday weekend? Take the subie! I think that says it all.
 
landtank said:
Well Ken, you can shoot holes in any theory but with something like this you hope to base a best guess on something. It's an odds thing. I want to think that most Toyota dealers would use the factory stuff and it would seem that you think otherwise.

So back on topic, How would you best guess if Dave's HG was replaced or not?
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I'm not trying to shoot holes in anything, or discredit your diagnostic technique at all. Far from it, sorry if you took it that way, it wasn't my intent. I think your method is probably the best way to tell, if any. Not 100% foolproof, but very likely correct.

I would bet a cold Guinness that there are more dealerships that DON'T use OEM sealants than those that do. The guy I bought my pickup from worked as a tech at a HUGE dealership in Colorado in the mid-90s, his specialty was rebuilding 22R-series engines. He told me once he had never seen a tube of Toyota OEM FIPG until I showed him one.
 
I'm still hoping to take my VIN to the dealership and see if they will run me a report, not sure they can do that, not sure what it will tell me, but it would be nice to know if ti was done or if I should be planning to do it sometime this spring or summer before FG just to be safe.

Frankly, I don't have the "spare" $2k laying around right now, nor do I live down the street from Rick or Nat ;) so I'm hoping that at some point in the first 215k miles of it's pampered, first owner, non-wheeler, dealer serviced life it had the HG done.
 
No Problem Ken.

Something else you can do Dave is lower the rear of the transmission by unbolting the cross member, with a jack under it of course. And look at the seam between the head and block. Occasionally the gasket will leak outward instead of in the cylinder and you can find crusties along the end and sides of the rear of the block.
 
After some checking over with Nat & RIck yesterday it sure looks like I have the OE HG but there's no real way to tell for certain without removing it.

That said I've been reading other HG thread in the 80 section and I think I'll change the sparkplugs and see if they all look the same.... certainly not a definite way to tell, just one of the many little signs that can show a failing HG.
 
Dave, Pete.
This whole thing about doing the HG as a pm sounds like a very expensive/long project. And one might at first weigh wether to bother with it or not. But just my own personal opinion, you should just buckle down, save some $ and do it. If not for anything other than piece of mind.

Granted, 2 k is a whole lot to shell out for a vehicle, but if you consider what your getting vs what you could get with the money its a slam dunk.

Also it is a lot of work, BUT, its not that bad and happens astonishingly quickly. Nats job was started and finished in 5 days. Thats take the head off send it to the machine shop get all the intake parts cleaned and have the guy do over the valve train. Replace the wiring harness. Drop the oil pan's. Change the timing chain slipper. And slap it all back together.

And all in under a working week.

Granted we seem to be doing these head gaskets back to back and we are learning (a little) as to how to do the job fast and efficient. But anyone with a good head on there shoulders and a set of wrenches could replicate this stuff. (there is no magic involved... I swear)

Again to reiterate. You guys, and anyone reaching the 200k mark on the odometer with an fz engine should just start savin and stackin their pennies. These trucks are really nice, and they really do have bullet proof engines. To get rid of one for this reason alone seems silly to me. (unless you've got tons of money and can find something to replace it with that has low miles, but if thats the case your not sweating the cost of the HG anyway)

But... I could be wrong. Everybody had there own prerogative and doing this kind of maintenance just might not be in the cards for some people.

P.S. Pete: if your gonna do the HG then and there is the time and place to do the other stuff. If your doin it on a budget you could check the head for flatness and the valves yourself and hopefully not have to send out the head to someone to be done, but you should prolly get a new harness in there and do the chain slipper. It would just flat out suck to yank the head, put it back on just to find out you've gotta do it again later for one of those two things.

P.P.S. Ken please excuse the horrible speelinng and grammarey stuff (I typed this pretty fast and forgot I had a teacher lookin in on it. Next time ill cheat off of Jacks posts :idea:) :D
 
5 days was always 2-4 dudes wrenching. It wasn't completely parallelized, but there was quite a bit of it.

Great time to weld that Y pipe if you've got one.

Looks like time for a real write up Nat.
 
I'm not panicking about it, I won't be taking it to South Carolina or anything, but (if I ever get it registered) I will drive it locally and hope for the best until I save up some money to do the job right. I am NOT getting rid of the truck over it, that's for sure. :)
 
Dave have you not registered the truck yet? please tell me you are Daily driving it:)
 
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