80 next to a 200

[dclee]

I can imagine! I also think that's one reason the non-100 owners defend and attack 100 owners when they point out all the improvements in the 100. They're "OK" with their 80's because they haven't experienced the superior new 100. That's OK...ignorance is bliss.

I've owned both, like you. I agree that the 100 is a better driver. But IMHO the 80 is a better all-around wheeler, for any type of wheeling except possibly the flat desert (like the Sonoran high desert country we have in California). While the 100 can match it in most (but not all) off-roading situations, there are also the ancillary considerations like ease of repair (especially at trailside), maintenance, modification, etc. that all go to the 80 by a wide margin.

As for the one I'd want to take across the Sahara... neither. I have a predilection for a particular German make for that purpose...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

by a wide margin

This is where you discredit yourself. That is a big exaggeration just as time and facts have shown. You make it sound like 100's fall apart on the trails. Not the case.

Also....while I do not know for certain.....my guess is you have not taken your '04 onto most all the same trails and over the same obstacles that you have your 80. This limits the power of your opinion regarding the comparison. I also think this to be true due to your conclusion about the 100 being suited for the "flat desert". That's rediculous as you would know if you ran that '04 over the stuff I have my '01.

 

[dclee]

This is where you discredit yourself. That is a big exaggeration just as time and facts have shown. You make it sound like 100's fall apart on the trails. Not the case.

Also....while I do not know for certain.....my guess is you have not taken your '04 onto most all the same trails and over the same obstacles that you have your 80. This limits the power of your opinion regarding the comparison. I also think this to be true due to your conclusion about the 100 being suited for the "flat desert". That's rediculous as you would know if you ran that '04 over the stuff I have my '01.

OK Mr. Revisionist History, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said 100s fall apart on trails. But all trucks break. When they do, repairs tend to be easier on the 80. I believe you yourself, in your 100, have munched CVs, steering rack, what else...? What have you broken on your 80 (just curious)?

I also never said the 100 was only suited to "flat desert", just that it did it better than the 80. In every other wheeling situation, my experience and observations tell me that the 80 is a better wheeler. While I have not done, say, Rubicon in the 100, I watched up-close and personal as i4c4lo took his through the entire trail. I was in front or behind him for much of the way (yes, in my 80). I don't want to speak for him, but I think even he would say the 100 is just not suited to that type of trail, at least as compared to an 80. And his truck and his driving skills are both very well cultivated to an extremely high level (I think he has the best-built 100 around, and he uses real shocks - Fox - not OME crap ). That thing still got stuck way too much, just due to sheer size and weight and deficiencies in the IFS.

 

[dclee]

Crap, sorry to get OT. Back to the subject at hand, while I know on paper the 80 is a much smaller vehicle than the 200, it sure doesn't look that way in those pcs!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Rubicon in the 100, I watched up-close and personal as i4c4lo took his through the entire trail. I was in front or behind him for much of the way (yes, in my 80). I don't want to speak for him, but I think even he would say the 100 is just not suited to that type of trail, at least as compared to an 80.

You Nor Cal guys (not all) are hopeless. Every response keeps coming back to the Rubicon Trail. My god. Sickning.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

You Nor Cal guys (not all) are hopeless. Every response keeps coming back to the Rubicon Trail. My god. Sickning.

What's wrong with that? The Rubicon Trail is widely recognized as the benchmark trail for off-road worthiness. Toyota tested the FJ there prior to it's release. Jeep, Volkswagen, Mercedes, and many other manufacturers use that trail as the litmus test for their vehicles. And when vehicles successfully make it through, the manufacturers make sure it's known. There are numerous videos on Toyota's site of the FJ running the Rubicon. VW put out a lot of press that the Touareg ran it. It's like the Nurburgring (sp?) track for sports cars. To my knowledge they haven't run the 200 through it.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

What's wrong with that? The Rubicon Trail is widely recognized as the benchmark trail for off-road worthiness. Toyota tested the FJ there prior to it's release. Jeep, Volkswagen, Mercedes, and many other manufacturers use that trail as the litmus test for their vehicles. And when vehicles successfully make it through, the manufacturers make sure it's known. There are numerous videos on Toyota's site of the FJ running the Rubicon. VW put out a lot of press that the Touareg ran it. It's like the Nurburgring (sp?) track for sports cars. To my knowledge they haven't run the 200 through it.

Nothing is wrong with "recognizing" the Rubi. Hail to all vehicles that make it through! Hail to the 100's for doing it! Hell, a Jeep-based EarthRoamer on 33's made it through! First Expedition Camper Across the Rubicon

The trouble is the Rubicon Trail only represents ONE TRAIL TYPE! A very tight and very rocky rock-crawl type of trail. How many times do I have to say to these Nor-Cal dudes that the 80 is BETTER than the 100 for that trail type?

Where they go deaf and/or are blinded is by discounting that the 100 is equal or better on MOST other trail types. For most trails rated 1-4+ the 100 has them and with all the perks not found in the 80. For 4+ to 4.5...take an 80. They need to wake up and be objective instead of bringing up the Rubicon Trail 99% of the time.

 

[calstyl2]

Hey, how many times have you done the Rubicon?
I read the 4WSU mag write up with you as a trail leader, you were never mentioned in the part where the TJ and 80 went up the more extreme part of the trail, was the 100 series there to pull them up already?
Shotts your a hell of a web wheeler

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Hey, how many times have you done the Rubicon?
I read the 4WSU mag write up with you as a trail leader, you were never mentioned in the part where the TJ and 80 went up the more extreme part of the trail, was the 100 series there to pull them up already?
Shotts your a hell of a web wheeler

Another post from CAL pointing back to the Rubicon. LUV IT!

By the way.......here's info on another Rubicon trip. I know, 80's are still way better if you're from Cal. Ya, these rookies must have spent 50% of their time stacking rocks.

Expeditions West: 2003 Rubicon Trail Tahoe GPS Map California CA

 

[calstyl2]

Another post from CAL pointing back to the Rubicon. LUV IT!

By the way.......here's info on another Rubicon trip. I know, 80's are still way better if you're from Cal. Ya, these rookies must have spent 50% of their time stacking rocks.

Expeditions West: 2003 Rubicon Trail Tahoe GPS Map California CA

John I can assure that my 80 has been into spots your 100 would 1. never fit, 2. would not have the balls to put it there, Or if you wanna get big britches here, See yah at Moab next year and we will run Minor Threat and Green Day and see where we are at.
We all know you love the attention this brings, but its common knowledge that a 100 series does have significant weak points that cause failures on the trail in extreme wheeling.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I read the 4WSU mag write up with you as a trail leader, you were never mentioned in the part where the TJ and 80 went up the more extreme part of the trail, was the 100 series there to pull them up already?
Shotts your a hell of a web wheeler

By the way....I know it's not worth it but it shows how errogant and dumb some can be. You think you know me? You try to paint me as a web wheeler who pases on the hard stuff like in the mag article.

Well....what you don't know and/or fail to mention is the fact that that trip was the 80's retirement run. My son already bought the '93. The last thing I would do is risk a rollover going up that obstacle. I do have the ability to use my head so I passed. I have years to wheel and there was no need to do it on that day. Notice the name of the run? John Shotts (shottscruisers) : photos : Martinez Canyon with AZLCA (this Cruiser's Retirement Run) 1/06- powered by SmugMug Oh, ah, and ah....I wasn't the trip leader.

The other way you show ignorance is by pointing out one trip but not another. Between these two obstacles the one in the mag article is CAKE. The other....only my slider kept me from a rollover. Enjoy your fantasies!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Nothing is wrong with "recognizing" the Rubi. Hail to all vehicles that make it through! Hail to the 100's for doing it! Hell, a Jeep-based EarthRoamer on 33's made it through! First Expedition Camper Across the Rubicon

The trouble is the Rubicon Trail only represents ONE TRAIL TYPE! A very tight and very rocky rock-crawl type of trail. How many times do I have to say to these Nor-Cal dudes that the 80 is BETTER than the 100 for that trail type?

Where they go deaf and/or are blinded is by discounting that the 100 is equal or better on MOST other trail types. For most trails rated 1-4+ the 100 has them and with all the perks not found in the 80. For 4+ to 4.5...take an 80. They need to wake up and be objective instead of bringing up the Rubicon Trail 99% of the time.

However, in that ONE trail you get ALL conditions. Rock, dirt, mud, water, endurance, etc. You don't hear many manufacturers touting that their truck ran Fins n' Things (very easy trail in Moab). The limited press testing the 200 has seen has been in fairly mild wheeling circumstances. There's reasons for that, target audience and capability. I doubt Toyota wants to dump a 200 on the Con and have it fall apart at the Rock Garden - bad press. Let your target audience know that the vehicle is capable of more than they expect knowing that they'll likely NEVER use it to it's abilities. Crawl control is going to the the new diff locks, we're going to be buying 200's that have never had it used once.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

but its common knowledge that a 100 series does have significant weak points that cause failures on the trail in extreme wheeling.

Please point out the articles and trips where 100's have failed. Ah, and not front diffs please. Anybody who "extreme wheels" should have already upgraded their diff to ARB. Please show us. If it's "common knowledge" there must be MANY out there.

Four Wheeler Mag? Off-Road Mag? T4WDOM? TTrails? Other?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The other....only my slider kept me from a rollover. Enjoy your fantasies!

You are FAR from rolling that pic, sorry. You'll argue that if the slider hadn't been there you would have, but all you would have been is resting on the pinch weld and sill.

 

[calstyl2]

How about transfer case failures?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

However, in that ONE trail you get ALL conditions. Rock, dirt, mud, water, endurance, etc. You don't hear many manufacturers touting that their truck ran Fins n' Things (very easy trail in Moab). The limited press testing the 200 has seen has been in fairly mild wheeling circumstances. There's reasons for that, target audience and capability. I doubt Toyota wants to dump a 200 on the Con and have it fall apart at the Rock Garden - bad press. Let your target audience know that the vehicle is capable of more than they expect knowing that they'll likely NEVER use it to it's abilities. Crawl control is going to the the new diff locks, we're going to be buying 200's that have never had it used once.

Blah blah blah.......you're blinded. There's ONE...OK, maybe ONE POINT FIVE reasons ONLY why a 100 doesn't fair as well on a trail like the Rubicon.

ONE: It's larger size
POINT FIVE: No 4-6" lifts available
THAT'S IT! Nothing else on the 100 limites it's sucess on a trail like the Rubi besides that.

Don't even bring up IFS or pictures of Tacoma's embarrasing SFA 80's could arise.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

How about transfer case failures?

Really? How many? Who? If it's common knowledge please point it out. Maybe there's an upgrade I can buy for Roklimo?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

You are FAR from rolling that pic, sorry. You'll argue that if the slider hadn't been there you would have, but all you would have been is resting on the pinch weld and sill.

I didn't see you there on that trip?

By the way...I hope you are correct though I doubt it. Every inch of forward progress resulted in a good-sized "rock" toward the ledge. If they slider had not made contact I feared tipping over. We took it really slow.

Many vehicles have rolled in this spot. Discount it if you like. That's your right.

 

[calstyl2]

By the way....I know it's not worth it but it shows how errogant and dumb some can be. You think you know me? You try to paint me as a web wheeler who pases on the hard stuff like in the mag article.

Well....what you don't know and/or fail to mention is the fact that that trip was the 80's retirement run. My son already bought the '93. The last thing I would do is risk a rollover going up that obstacle. I do have the ability to use my head so I passed. I have years to wheel and there was no need to do it on that day. Notice the name of the run? John Shotts (shottscruisers) : photos : Martinez Canyon with AZLCA (this Cruiser's Retirement Run) 1/06- powered by SmugMug Oh, ah, and ah....I wasn't the trip leader.

The other way you show ignorance is by pointing out one trip but not another. Between these two obstacles the one in the mag article is CAKE. The other....only my slider kept me from a rollover. Enjoy your fantasies!

Looks like a lousy choice of lines, You had a chance to mute some of the points in that write up but looks like the 80 got all the credit.
Im sure a major 80 and 100 series vendor might have some opinions regarding weak points on the 100 series, but would smartly never bring himself into these frays.
As far as the 200 series goes, gonna be a while before it proves its extreme trail abilties.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Looks like a lousy choice of lines.

Ya...you must be right. So far I know of 3 Cruiser guys with 80's who have even TRIED it.....everybody passes due to risk.

Joe Chott
Walt Phillips
Me

I know of no 100's to try it other than me.

Man, I must have lucked out! The 80 does have the line advantage on the obstacle though due to better approach angle. Had I a stock a rock down on that 4-foot initial climb I could have stayed right and got less air. That's cheating though in my book.