i know that this topic has probably been beat to death but i have been reading many articles on springover conversions and i think that i am almost ready to do mine on my 60. the only shady area that i am concened with is the steering. :dunno: i have read the articles from this website and i would like to know what the common person does and what works and what doesnt and what is cheap and easy to do if it is possible. also where do all of you get the stuff to do it with i.e. longer pitman arms. also if anyone has just recently done one some part numbers for stuff like brake lines and shocks would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
60 spring over steering?
- Thread starter snelson
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Had a soa done on my fj62 recently. For steering, I highly recommend spending the money and going to a high steer. All Pro Offroad, Front Range Offroad, and many others sell these steering arms. They are easy to install and will bring steering components above the springs, protecting from rocks and stumps and reducing angle from pitman. If you go with a high steer setup, you really won't have to do anything else with the steering except maybe change your tire rod ends to make it all work.
For shocks, I run the new Rancho RS9000s.
Depending on the springs you will use (ie oem or aftermarket lifted springs, shackle rev, etc...) will determine if you will need to build a tranny crossmember and convert your front driveshaft to a CV style due to the angles. If you need to do this, spend the money and have some good driveshafts made so you don't have vibrations, tom woods driveshafts or highangledriveline.
I run OME springs, shack. rev (at least 8 inches lift over stock height) and had to build a crossmember and front driveshaft to get it all to work. I went with a high steer. I am pleased with the performance offroad, but as with any custom work, there is a tweaking period to follow. I need to address some vibration in the rear (think its the rear driveshaft) and maybe change leaf springs to something a little less arched. I am hoping the OME will wear and flatten enough, but I may change them if it doesn't look so. Will probably go with some wheel spacers, too. And rear disc brakes eventually.
Brakelines are easy to obtain from local shops or online. If you want more dialogue you can email me at gkhal@hotmail.com.
Good luck.
For shocks, I run the new Rancho RS9000s.
Depending on the springs you will use (ie oem or aftermarket lifted springs, shackle rev, etc...) will determine if you will need to build a tranny crossmember and convert your front driveshaft to a CV style due to the angles. If you need to do this, spend the money and have some good driveshafts made so you don't have vibrations, tom woods driveshafts or highangledriveline.
I run OME springs, shack. rev (at least 8 inches lift over stock height) and had to build a crossmember and front driveshaft to get it all to work. I went with a high steer. I am pleased with the performance offroad, but as with any custom work, there is a tweaking period to follow. I need to address some vibration in the rear (think its the rear driveshaft) and maybe change leaf springs to something a little less arched. I am hoping the OME will wear and flatten enough, but I may change them if it doesn't look so. Will probably go with some wheel spacers, too. And rear disc brakes eventually.
Brakelines are easy to obtain from local shops or online. If you want more dialogue you can email me at gkhal@hotmail.com.
Good luck.
The soa can be done fairly inexpensively. I dont dont what the hi steer stuff cost. Its seems like it might not be an issue for everyone. There is'nt much left under the spring just one steering rod and its tucked up there pretty well.
The big issues tend to be stability and driveline vibration. Due to the higher center of gravity it will no longer take corners like a Lotus Europa.
The driveline issues are addresed by taking care when welding the new spring perches on.
Here are the components you need for the poor man's soa:
Steering arm from aqualu $225.00
spring perches from dodge performance. $12.00
Front shock mounts for ford truck. $20.00
Rancho 9000's, around $300. (the longest ones they;ve got)
Lenghening driveshafts around $80.00 each (assuming slip yokes and u joints are in good shape)
welding of spring persches and shock mounts around $250.00
When welding on the spring perches care must be taken to make sure the top perch is perfectly parallel the the bottom one. This makes sure that the driveshaft yokes remain in alignment. If you use stock springs and shackes the driveline angle should'nt be a problem for the stock driveshafts. The stock 40 driveshafts work fine when you reverse the springs lengthening the wheel base. On a 60 with the already longer wheelbase this should'nt be an issue. With stock springs this gives you around 6" of lift and much better articulation.
The big issues tend to be stability and driveline vibration. Due to the higher center of gravity it will no longer take corners like a Lotus Europa.
The driveline issues are addresed by taking care when welding the new spring perches on.
Here are the components you need for the poor man's soa:
Steering arm from aqualu $225.00
spring perches from dodge performance. $12.00
Front shock mounts for ford truck. $20.00
Rancho 9000's, around $300. (the longest ones they;ve got)
Lenghening driveshafts around $80.00 each (assuming slip yokes and u joints are in good shape)
welding of spring persches and shock mounts around $250.00
When welding on the spring perches care must be taken to make sure the top perch is perfectly parallel the the bottom one. This makes sure that the driveshaft yokes remain in alignment. If you use stock springs and shackes the driveline angle should'nt be a problem for the stock driveshafts. The stock 40 driveshafts work fine when you reverse the springs lengthening the wheel base. On a 60 with the already longer wheelbase this should'nt be an issue. With stock springs this gives you around 6" of lift and much better articulation.
- Thread starter
- #4
thanks axlechassis that is what i wanted to here a poor mans soa if i understand you right you are saying just extend the pitman arm instead of spending 500 dollars on hysteer. and where did you say you could get a pitman arm from? i am going to plan on using the stock springs and shackles so hopfully i wont have to extend the rear driveline. i am assuming that you had to extend the brakelines also? thanks again for the parts list it will help out a bunch. :bow:
HiSteer arms are as cheap as $200 a pair....AllPro does sales on them, as do others. MUCH nicer than a double-passenger arm....if only they were that cheap when I did my SOA a few years ago...
The extra $$ comes in when you change tie rods/drag links to match the significantly stronger FJ80 (or other) steering joints...again, a very worthwhile upgrade IMO.
As important as steering is to a vehicle's performance, don't scrimp a couple hundred bucks to get by on it....especially with the added stresses the SOA can add to the overall vehicle.
The extra $$ comes in when you change tie rods/drag links to match the significantly stronger FJ80 (or other) steering joints...again, a very worthwhile upgrade IMO.
As important as steering is to a vehicle's performance, don't scrimp a couple hundred bucks to get by on it....especially with the added stresses the SOA can add to the overall vehicle.
so noone seems to turn the knuckles, i've been going back and forth on how to lift my 60. its buggin' the mess outta me that it looks like a streeter. i know a guy who just spent the big $ on a old man emu lift. looks good but alot of coins for 3" lift.
theferg
SILVER Star
Hold up. Are there any hi-steer arms that work with the stock Tie Rod and Relay Rod? I was under the impression that the Relay Rod would pretty much always be too short to work with the hi-steer. So you would have to get a new Relay Rod on top of hi-steer arms and at that point you may as well just get the whole darn kit... Am I wrong? I have called a couple places and asked them that specifically and they have said that you WOULD need a new Relay Rod because it would be too short. But, I didn't really know if I believed them or not...
Anybody know for sure.....? :dunno:
Anybody know for sure.....? :dunno:
as far as i know you have to get the whole kit. looks like a good way to go other than turning the knuckles.
theferg
SILVER Star
I have found some info on the arms. Most cases the stock rods don't work--too long--but some folks have cut them down and re-threaded them (they're hollow dontcha-know). Seems like an alright thing to do. Better than runnin' a double arm I think. Anyway, I emailed every place that makes them and have yet to hear back from most, but SOR replied and told me that their high steer knuckle arms were "designed to use all the original steering control rods". Yep, that's right, that's exactly what the email said. Though I am still skeptical for some reason... Anyway, so for those who are cheap arses (like me) you could get any high steer arms with the taper for the FJ80 ends (which is the same taper as 60/62s) and cut your rods to length and re-thread them. There are a couple local rigs that run them with bigger tires than I will be runnin' (35s), so I am sure I would be alright. Especially since my rig is a DD and 4x4 weekender. If it doesn't work out (you bend the s***e out of a rod), then you can get beefier stuff. Just wanted to pass that bit on.
And cut-n-turn of knuckles is a funny subject. There are people who swear they have run SOA without cut-n-turn for many years or whatever and there are those who swear they tried it without and got all sorts of bumpsteer and wander and vibration and whatever. Anyway, I was gonna try it without cut-n-turn until a tech with a local cruiser shop told me he would give me a smokin' deal on it--so good that if I passed, I should have my...well, I'm not passin' it up. I will be having my knuckles cut-n-turned. It really is the RIGHT way to do it, but you can get away without doing it in some cases.
And cut-n-turn of knuckles is a funny subject. There are people who swear they have run SOA without cut-n-turn for many years or whatever and there are those who swear they tried it without and got all sorts of bumpsteer and wander and vibration and whatever. Anyway, I was gonna try it without cut-n-turn until a tech with a local cruiser shop told me he would give me a smokin' deal on it--so good that if I passed, I should have my...well, I'm not passin' it up. I will be having my knuckles cut-n-turned. It really is the RIGHT way to do it, but you can get away without doing it in some cases.
hey ferg, how much did he tell you it would cost 'ya? maybe it be cheaper for me to buy and axle from you and have it shipped, or we could trade axles. 
theferg
SILVER Star
A few months ago he was havin' a special for cut-n-turn for $100 smackers 
(You take the whole thing apart and down to the housing and put it back together after it's turned--of course) Not sure what he is going to charge now but it can't be too much more... I'll be talkin' to him on Monday, I'll check how much. What state are you in Farmer Jon? Are you the Farmer Jon that used to have the Farmer Jon website? What happened to it?
(You take the whole thing apart and down to the housing and put it back together after it's turned--of course) Not sure what he is going to charge now but it can't be too much more... I'll be talkin' to him on Monday, I'll check how much. What state are you in Farmer Jon? Are you the Farmer Jon that used to have the Farmer Jon website? What happened to it?
theferg
SILVER Star
There are quite a few cruiser shops actually. Mostly in SLC area. I bet there is a bunch of Toy mini shops too.
Cruiser Outfitters
Cruiser Engineering
DJs Traction
Outback LandCruisers
TLC Auto
Those are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head. I pesonally don't like TLC Auto at all. And as for the rest, I have only talked to them on the phone and never had any work done by them, but heard mostly good about them all. Cruiser Outfitters is who told me that price. Like I said, he stated the cut-n-turn price was a special at the time and I am not sure what he is chargin' now...
Sorry 'bout the lift man. You were about 2 days late... :ugh:
Cruiser Outfitters
Cruiser Engineering
DJs Traction
Outback LandCruisers
TLC Auto
Those are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head. I pesonally don't like TLC Auto at all. And as for the rest, I have only talked to them on the phone and never had any work done by them, but heard mostly good about them all. Cruiser Outfitters is who told me that price. Like I said, he stated the cut-n-turn price was a special at the time and I am not sure what he is chargin' now...
Sorry 'bout the lift man. You were about 2 days late... :ugh:
theferg
SILVER Star
Stretch, I was just thinking, since I already sold the lift, why not spring-over? Can you weld or know anyone down there that can weld? There's gotta be one or two good shops in Price...
- Thread starter
- #16
ferg, after you told me that you had sold the lift i started to get a parts list together for a spring over and was trying to get a ballpark price together. my only concern was the steering that was why i posted this thread hoping to find out what works for poor people like myself thanks for cruiser shop list i will have to check it out the next time i am up there. oh and if you have a parts list available for your soa send it my way if you dont mind. i can send you my email if you still dont have it thanks
