5th Gen T-Case Swap Questions (2 Viewers)

[numby]

Howdy all - I don't normally venture far from the 40/55 section here on Mud but I am now considering buying a 5th Gen 4Runner - possibly even a new one - before Toyota skanks up another classic with all the stuff I'm not interested in like fantasy, cheap tech, and faux luxury. My aim is to purchase a vehicle that I know I can get a 30+ year lifespan out of as I have done with all my other vehicles. Unfortunately I have not been able to find easy answers to a few important questions that will help me make a sound decision. I'm hoping this wing of the hive can help. The questions are:

1) As I'm only interested in the base 4X4 models like the SR5, etc. which currently come with a goofy little selector knob to control the transfer case, can I retrofit the manual t-case lever from higher end "Trail", "Off Road", or "Off Road Pro" models (I know about the FJ Cruiser auto cases) and discard the actuator at the case OR do I need the correct manually operated transfer case to make it all work? I sincerely doubt there are different frames or floor pan components for the various 4Runner models (that would be antithetical to Toyota's manufacturing ethos) so I'm pretty confident there's a straightforward way to do this regardless of personal expense or inconvenience.

2) Can I swap out the part time t-case for the full time case found in the Limited models if I also eliminate the ADD stuff on the front diff/axle assembly? Can I just split the front diff and swap in the non-part time front diff long side half and inner axle?

3) Can I also retrofit/control the full time Limited case with a manual lever? Also - do these cases contain a locking torsen-style torque biasing differential to give true four wheel drive and, if so, are they mechanically locked or electronically locked. I get crazy answers to this question. I'm not even certain they work this way.

4) Does the Eaton 14215-1 ELocker fit 5th Gen 4Runner rear axles? I get conflicting info even from Eaton directly.

I'm certain I will have other Qs but I don't want to muddy up this thread too badly. Thanks for any insight.

numby

 

[ScoutRecon]

I'm having trouble understanding why your interested in a SR5 to begin with? It seems like you are aiming towards a TRD and adding full time AWD. Part time 4wd will net better fuel milage, and I don't see the need to add a manual tc to an sr5. I could maybe see adding a locker to an sr5, but I would think what your asking for is basically a TRD without all the work...

 

[numby]

Nope. I want as few gizmos as possible as I'm looking for longevity. I currently daily drive a 50 year old pick-up (which I just did a 1600 road trip in) and a 45 year old 40. I know what I'm talking about. Yes, those models (Premium, Off Road, etc) have a manual lever and that's my main interest. The TRD models also have Krawl Kontrol and a bunch of other 4Xwhatever junk and cost more than I can pay. I don't really want the Toyota locker either as I'd prefer a TrueTrac or similar. I'm also not gonna pay $ for badging.

The "full time" t-case was more a curiosity but would work better for a good portion of the winter road miles the vehicle will see. I doesn't seem to get worse mileage than the part-time system and would eliminate the silly and unreliable ADD device. I have had enough of vehicles with those systems. The electronic t-case shifters fail often enough and are spendy so Toyota.

Both cases seem to have simple dual rail shifting mechanics. The question is whether or not there are any real differences between the standard electronic case and the manual version? Does the vehicle ECM control engagement of the system or is it simply the console switch sending power to the actuator and position sensors on the case that light up the dash? If it's the latter then there's a way forward.

I'm having trouble getting enough time to fully research this at present. To start I need to sit down and compare internal part numbers. It does seem that others have, at least, considered the swap. Thanks for the reply.

 

[ScoutRecon]

I understand, I'm not big fan of technology either. I have a 19 trd premium and never use the crawl control and the locker has worked every time I asked it to. No complaints here... The truck itself has never given me one problem, and I can't recall reading of any issues with the ATRAC system or the locker in the 5th gens. I have read of issues with electric shift 4wd not working so I can see your concerns there. As far as what's involved to do what your requesting, I'm sorry I'm of no help there. If you want less tech shoot for a 2019 or older.

 

[Rednexus]

Since you are wanting a physical lever for 4X4 engagement, and the AWD transfer case, have you considered a GX470? You'll get all of that (button to lock the center diff, physical lever for H and L range), no ADD up front, no crawl control (just DAC), ATRAC that works pretty good, plus a V8 that is more powerful and bulletproof than the V6 in a 4Runner. They are of course older, but would avoid having to swap around T-cases and modify the interior to get what you want. It may be counterintuitive to go to a Lexus for less tech, but the drivetrains in them are very good.

 

[numby]

I understand, I'm not big fan of technology either. I have a 19 trd premium and never use the crawl control and the locker has worked every time I asked it to. No complaints here... The truck itself has never given me one problem, and I can't recall reading of any issues with the ATRAC system or the locker in the 5th gens. I have read of issues with electric shift 4wd not working so I can see your concerns there. As far as what's involved to do what your requesting, I'm sorry I'm of no help there. If you want less tech shoot for a 2019 or older

I wouldn't worry about a 2019 model either as they are very new by Toyota's high quality standards. But I am thinking loooong term. As in decades. Electronic stuff has a way of becoming glitchy and non-functional after that much time. True, the 4Runner has high production numbers and a good following so there may be excellent support in the year 2043. Maybe even later if I'm lucky.

Since you are wanting a physical lever for 4X4 engagement, and the AWD transfer case, have you considered a GX470? You'll get all of that (button to lock the center diff, physical lever for H and L range), no ADD up front, no crawl control (just DAC), ATRAC that works pretty good, plus a V8 that is more powerful and bulletproof than the V6 in a 4Runner. They are of course older, but would avoid having to swap around T-cases and modify the interior to get what you want. It may be counterintuitive to go to a Lexus for less tech, but the drivetrains in them are very good.

I have indeed been looking at the Lexus GX460 models with the features you point out. Up through 2009 they function pretty much as the full time 4WD 4Runners did up until 2013 (I think) - a lever for High/Low range, and a electronic actuator for the differential lock - but with the addition of a proven V8 . Plus they get the roughly the same mileage as the current V6 Toyotas There's a lot to like there with a taller roof line (good for me) and nearly as much of a following and similar enough chassis to utilize much of the same aftermarket equipment as a 4Runner. An older GX in this range would still be the newest vehicle I own so that's still a plus.

I have steered myself away from the 25 year old import market for my lack of interest in accumulating yet another arcane parts stash that is generally required to keep an older vehicle running for decades to come. I have also decided to avoid the FJ80 end of the spectrum as the parts are going obsolete faster than I am. That leaves me with the newer "used" market or, perhaps, new if I can cough up the dollars. Today's new vehicle prices are really out of my range except for the base 4Runner or some goofy little rolling tin can of an SUV/crossover. A ten year old vehicle might not be so bad to get a good starting platform.

I did check with the local Toyota dealership regarding the purchase of a printed transmission/transfer case manual to see some parts diagrams and disassembly/assembly instructions. Those are no longer available for vehicles built much later that 2010. The thought of paying a subscription fee to do some research and then not being able to recoup some of my investment if I bail sort of rubs me wrong - but that's just my pet peeve. The dealer was able to tell me that the same model of transmission is fitted to all the four wheel drive 4Runners regardless of trim. That means, in theory at least, the various transfer cases can be physically swapped between models. Managing the shifting and tricking out the ECM to not set codes is another thing entirely. It would be nice to think that you could just use the t-case mounted position sensors to illuminate your own dash lights. Then connect/disconnect/ground any wires to the controller to make the vehicle think it's in 4HI (in a full time vehicle) or the appropriate range (in a part time rig) without an actuator also shouldn't be hard. It's getting the ATRAC, etc to function that may be inordinately difficult... or possibly worse.

 

[Jetboy]

I think the answer to your question is, no. You can't swap the lever and linkage from the Trail models to the SR5. They both use versions of the VF2A or whatever it's designated transfer case. But the manual shift version has a shift fork that goes down through the top plate. The VF2BM on the SR5 has consolidated all of the shifting to a single rear mounted actuator that has 3 positions. So you could swap transfer cases totally. But you can't just use the linkage from the mechanical one to replace the electric actuators.

You could rig up a simple push/pull cable to replace the servo in the actuator though. But it would take some custom work. It just needs to push or pull with enough range to move the shaft far enough to hit all 3 positions. Shouldn't be terribly complicated to build, but not as easy as a bolt in part.

If you wanted the most reliable 4x4 system - I think you'd want the Limited model. It's the only version without a front ADD system. Then if you converted to some version of a manual shift transfer case you'd eliminate all electronic actuators from the system. But you're still relying on dozens of other electronic parts to make it go - like the 7 or so solenoids in the transmission, etc.

The actuation seems to be very reliable in the 5th gen. I never experienced any hiccups in my 2015 Trail with the ADD engaging or the rear locker actuator. They were flawless for me. I had the lever for the transfer case, so I can't speak to that being an issue or not. I did have a few times where it took 3 or 4 tries to engage in my 1996 4Runner. I think the actuators have improved over time just by anecdotal experience with both of them.

This is the top plate off on the electric shift VF2BM model like the SR5 has. You can see that the shift forks are attached to shafts that go back to the actuator. It's probably possible to remove those two shaft mounted shift forks, plug the holes, and replace with the lever on the top plate. But I don't know for sure. You'd have to try it and see if everything fits.

The shift forks on the sliding shafts in the pic below are necessary to move the gear collars inside when you move the lever. In the second pic you can see that the two shaft locations are capped on the electric shift version. And there's a long shaft from the rear of the transfer case that is actuated by the electronics. So you'd have to swap over a bunch of parts to use the shift lever. At that point you probably would want to just swap cases and use the manual case.

Pic borrowed from unknown source;