4 banger LC, thoughts?

[Land Caesar]

And yet a vastly less complicated diesel engine with modern emmission controls could easily get the same mileage and cost less to produce and maintain.

I was asking about a petrol v8 and the 250 LC engine

 

[MeWantLC]

Please convey a bit more information to this equation.

How long would you plan to keep this vehicle (If life works that way) ?

How many miles per year do you drive?

What was the estimated mpg and price per gallon you equated?

Appreciate the input

I’m transitioning from idea of the 5.7 Tundra to a 6cyl Tundra

Yet this 250 LC has the top spot if interest rates stop climbing… and hopefully descend.

I’d likely obtain a vehicle i would keep for approximately 12 years or so. Maybe more if I just want to.

At approximately 10,000 miles per year that’s around 125,000, and rite about the time it’s still worth something substantial.

The idea of 14mpg with a tried and true 5.7 is much different than the idea of 24mpg

Yet cost of vehicles differ greatly

Well, I ran a Montecarlo calculation... , But , in short:

10k miles per year.
30 years ownership.
$5 per gallon.
LC250, 25 MPG
LC200, 13 MPG

The main takeaway is / was, it comes down to about $60k or so more dollars in gas for that period of ownership. There is a range, of course, P10/P90 with all the variables in place... But for example, I don't think the gasoline will be cheap again, so price per gallon is a skew distribution.

Anyways, I know the LC250 WILL NOT BE as tank sensation like the LC200 or 100, and I don't expect that because I know Prados in other places of the world, and they are GOOD vehicles, just not like the big brothers, and I am MORE than ok with that with a +12 or so better mileage per gallon, and GREAT modern features. Like I said, would I love a newer V8 with 25 MPG, heck yeah ! Is it going to happen? Nope.

Even if I don't keep it for 30 but 15 years, that's still a big difference in money spending in gas... Money that could help to fund other fun activities like traveling in it with family !

I will miss my LC200, I will ... But unless dealers come with prices above MRSP for the LC250, I am getting one and letting go the LC250. It will be MORE than enough of a 4 banger !

 

[OldCarSmell]

And yet a vastly less complicated diesel engine with modern emmission controls could easily get the same mileage and cost less to produce and maintain.

So why don’t they? If it really was the smarter, more efficient, cheaper option as you claim, what’s in the way?

 

[Land Caesar]

Well, I ran a Montecarlo calculation... , But , in short:

10k miles per year.
30 years ownership.
$5 per gallon.
LC250, 25 MPG
LC200, 13 MPG

The main takeaway is / was, it comes down to about $60k or so more dollars in gas for that period of ownership. There is a range, of course, P10/P90 with all the variables in place... But for example, I don't think the gasoline will be cheap again, so price per gallon is a skew distribution.

Anyways, I know the LC250 WILL NOT BE as tank sensation like the LC200 or 100, and I don't expect that because I know Prados in other places of the world, and they are GOOD vehicles, just not like the big brothers, and I am MORE than ok with that with a +12 or so better mileage per gallon, and GREAT modern features. Like I said, would I love a newer V8 with 25 MPG, heck yeah ! Is it going to happen? Nope.

Even if I don't keep it for 30 but 15 years, that's still a big difference in money spending in gas... Money that could help to fund other fun activities like traveling in it with family !

I will miss my LC200, I will ... But unless dealers come with prices above MRSP for the LC250, I am getting one and letting go the LC250. It will be MORE than enough of a 4 banger !

Ok I like this topic.

In my situation …

-I can buy a $45,000 2022 Used Tundra that gets around 17mpg mixed driving

Or

- Finance a $56,000 250 Land Cruiser that likely gets 24mpg


That’s Approximately $12,000 in Gas or around 4 years of Fuel

5 miles per gallon better is Nice, plus a newer vehicle to Have down the road.

Yet 5miles per gallon is the contributing thought in my circumstance.

*Then that’s a two fold pro and con
1)My Wife will likely not drive Tundra
2) I’ll need to buy a Four Wheel camper, cuz it’s awesome to camp anywhere.

 

[Phillyd2]

Anyone buying this kind of vanity vehicle as their daily driver deserves paying more for gas. Be smarter. Make better choices.

 

[Land Caesar]

Anyone buying this kind of vanity vehicle as their daily driver deserves paying more for gas. Be smarter. Make better choices.

Please elaborate

What vanity vehicle…
The 250 Landcruiser?

A SUV that can act like a truck/minivan and get around what a sedan used to get, 25mpg

Oh and be reliable like all Toyota’s…

Why would this Fuel efficient Suv be a bad choice?



Ps
Granted I have a Hybrid Minivan, a work vehicle provided… and the 250 would be a second personal vehicle for wknd fun.

 

[NTTD]

So why don’t they? If it really was the smarter, more efficient, cheaper option as you claim, what’s in the way?

1. In the US we need DEF which is a pain.
2. Diesels other than trucks and heavy vehicles have never been widely popular.
3. VW's Dieselgate pretty much killed any chance of non-truck diesels gaining a foothold.

 

[OldCarSmell]

1. In the US we need DEF which is a pain.
2. Diesels other than trucks and heavy vehicles have never been widely popular.
3. VW's Dieselgate pretty much killed any chance of non-truck diesels gaining a foothold.

I used to own a diesel truck, loved it and its many advantages. Personally, I didn’t mind the DEF system, can see why others might be aggravated by something else to manage/fix. I know to a decent degree the impact of VW’s Dieselgate, but I still don’t understand why, if diesel were the better option, we wouldn’t be converting to that en masse. It has to be a geopolitics thing, where oil wealth goes and sustainability and energy independence. If diesel were the best option with regard to those present complexities, I have to believe we'd be adopting it as our chief fuel.

 

[jayp2]

I was asking about a petrol v8 and the 250 LC engine

So, innovation is only ok when it involves certain solutions and not others eh?

 

[Land Caesar]

So, innovation is only ok when it involves certain solutions and not others eh?

What are You … talking about?

(Actually disregard that,as most of your post are political)

I’m asking about two particular engines

One is comparing to the other that this thread is about?

 

[MeWantLC]

Watched this one yesterday. Nice and quick review. Not perfect but gives some pointers. Sadly we won't have the 3rd seats in the USA, however small , useful for moving soccer players

 

[jayp2]

What are You … talking about?

(Actually disregard that,as most of your post are political)

I’m asking about two particular engines

One is comparing to the other that this thread is about?

There's nothing poliical about reasons why fuel is expensive and currency is worth less.....its simple facts/consequences of poor policy/actions

You made a statement about the V8 OR the 4 cyl hybrid as if they were the only possible solutions......I threw out the diesel because its simple/proven/long lasting solution that people find very desirable in the 3/4 - 1 ton range of trucks....if I can get 21mpg in 6.7 liter diesel while unloaded....and thats in a vehicle that weighs more than 8500# with poor aerodynamics.......then Toyota and others COULD easily exceed 25mpg in a 3-4 liter diesel in a LC

 

[MrX]

They are cashing in on the reminiscing Consumer that still wants the v8’s as more companies are getting away from it.

As Fuel prices increase… and there is definitely reason to believe they will

I think that Demographic Market will decrease.

As Fuel becomes closer to the average of $5.00 per gallon… Do you really feel people will WANT to continue to purchase a V8 Suburban or Yukon SUV’s ?

You certainty are allowed to have your opinion, yet not your own facts.

Cost of Fuel increasing every decade is Facts.

In next 10 years, the v8 SUV market will continue to diminish as the masses will not be interested as much.

Gas will go right back down as soon as we get people back in office who don't hate fossil fuels. Maybe not $1.99 again, but significantly cheaper. And yes people will always buy big trucks, V8 GM trucks and SUVs they can't even keep on lots. I had to search for a Denali and it wasn't easy. And I hate to tell ya, but Ecoboost and tt motors get virtually zero better gas mileage under real world use. Gasoline is going nowhere.

 

[Land Caesar]

There's nothing poliical about reasons why fuel is expensive and currency is worth less.....its simple facts/consequences of poor policy/actions

You made a statement about the V8 OR the 4 cyl hybrid as if they were the only possible solutions......I threw out the diesel because its simple/proven/long lasting solution that people find very desirable in the 3/4 - 1 ton range of trucks....if I can get 21mpg in 6.7 liter diesel while unloaded....and thats in a vehicle that weighs more than 8500# with poor aerodynamics.......then Toyota and others COULD easily exceed 25mpg in a 3-4 liter diesel in a LC

Ok
Yet the Diesel option is not available in the USA Market.

 

[Land Caesar]

Personally I like the v8 gasser that toyota offers

My v8 100 series was awful on fuel though

This new 250 gets much better mpg and… has just as much power, actually more.

Gas prices will increase

Small displacement engines will develop

It’s what will happen.

Accept or not

 

[APIOQM]

Anyone buying this kind of vanity vehicle as their daily driver deserves paying more for gas. Be smarter. Make better choices.

Would you suggest a family that needs two daily drivers then own three vehicles? That doesn't seem very smart. Besides, I'd hardly call the 250 a vanity vehicle if it's priced similarly other mid-size SUVs (deducting fuel savings).

 

[Land Caesar]

Would you suggest a family that needs two daily drivers then own three vehicles? That doesn't seem very smart. Besides, I'd hardly call the 250 a vanity vehicle if it's priced similarly other mid-size SUVs (deducting fuel savings).

Should make “Better decisions”

Like a Suburban or Tahoe v8

 

[NTTD]

I used to own a diesel truck, loved it and its many advantages. Personally, I didn’t mind the DEF system, can see why others might be aggravated by something else to manage/fix. I know to a decent degree the impact of VW’s Dieselgate, but I still don’t understand why, if diesel were the better option, we wouldn’t be converting to that en masse. It has to be a geopolitics thing, where oil wealth goes and sustainability and energy independence. If diesel were the best option with regard to those present complexities, I have to believe we'd be adopting it as our chief fuel.

I used to own a diesel truck too, (pre DEF) and it was great. Bulletproof engine, efficient and low fuel and maintenance costs.

Modern diesels pickups are not that.

I manage a small fleet at work. We have several RAMs of various ages. Our single Diesel (RAM 2500) is by far the most expensive thing we own to maintain. Oil and filter changes cost 4 times as much. Any and every repair part costs at least twice as much. It's like owning a German vehicle without any of the benefits.

Diesel costs more now too.

Any savings that diesels used to bring to the table with fuel savings is now lost in greater costs of maintenance. We will never buy a diesel pickup again.


I'm not sure why diesels never took here but they didn't. Now they have a stigma.

 

[Jetboy]

I do not think that a USA emissions compliant diesel would have a comparable service life, perform as well, or be cheaper.

Current EGR and DEF diesels are inherently unreliable. I'm not sure I'll ever be convinced that you can route 40% of the exhaust back through the engine on a diesel and not have problems with soot buildup. I've been down that road. A "modern" diesel is a hard pass for me as they currently exist. They have too many fragile and expensive systems. I believe the general consensus is that the longevity has switched to favor current gasoline HD trucks over diesels. Few or no current diesel light duty trucks are going to last long term with the full emissions packages intact. The only way I'd consider owning another modern diesel is with the following:

Inline design with all of the following systems accessible without any other parts removed other than possibly plastic intake parts:
HPFP
Injectors
Glow plugs
2 piece easily cleanable EGR Cooler that can be removed, cleaned, and re-installed in under 2 hours.
Turbo/s - must be easy to remove, only use o-ring seals on oil lines that are easy bolt on flanges. Turbos must go on and off in less than an hour of labor round trip.
All exhaust and intake manifold passageways that include EGR flow must be easy to remove and clean.
If it uses a liquid to liquid oil cooler - it must be external and easily accessed and replaced.

This shouldn't need to be said - but the oil pump may not be belt driven from the rear crank shaft (looking at you GM).

Toyota said about a decade ago that it would cost around $8k more per vehicle for a Tacoma diesel with USA emissions. And they likely have a shorter service life. I'll pass. I'd much rather have a hybrid. Even a turbo gas hybrid.

 

[NTTD]

I believe the general consensus is that the longevity has switched to favor current gasoline HD trucks over diesels. Few or no current diesel light duty trucks are going to last long term...

Exactly. Other business owners who manage fleets have come to the same conclusion, no more diesels.

Toyota said about a decade ago that it would cost around $8k more per vehicle for a Tacoma diesel with USA emissions. And they likely have a shorter service life. I'll pass. I'd much rather have a hybrid. Even a turbo gas hybrid.

This. Diesels are all but dead in the US.