4 banger LC, thoughts? (2 Viewers)

[JohnPW]

I feel there will be a complete revolution in the auto industry when fully autonomous vehicles are widespread. All this talk of universal charging stations etc, I’m not so sure. I anticipate the USA model of everyone owning 2 or 3 cars in a family, which sit idle in the driveway 90% of their life, will be over. You will have a monthly car service sending an autonomous vehicle to you when you need it…avoiding maintenance, insurance, and storage, and dramatically increasing the efficiency of use from each vehicle built.

Then you might own one adventure vehicle, for towing or off road if you are into that. Whether that adventure vehicle is efficient won’t matter much, to you or to the environment.

 

[SnoopisTDI]

I feel there will be a complete revolution in the auto industry when fully autonomous vehicles are widespread. All this talk of universal charging stations etc, I’m not so sure. I anticipate the USA model of everyone owning 2 or 3 cars in a family, which sit idle in the driveway 90% of their life, will be over. You will have a monthly car service sending an autonomous vehicle to you when you need it…avoiding maintenance, insurance, and storage, and dramatically increasing the efficiency of use from each vehicle built.

Then you might own one adventure vehicle, for towing or off road if you are into that. Whether that adventure vehicle is efficient won’t matter much, to you or to the environment.

But if we don't all have 2-3 cars, cars which we are very particular about, then those monthly car services will all buy the same few vehicles and we will lose a ton of variety. The Land Cruiser won't have 4-5 other vehicles to share costs with because half of them won't exist. Also, I don't think someone who might buy a Land Cruiser today for daily driving and the occasional adventure trip is going to buy a car service and a Land Cruiser. Owning an expensive toy like that will be a sign of affluence and wealth. The result is a Land Cruiser that requires a mortgage- or isn't produced at all.

 

[JohnPW]

But if we don't all have 2-3 cars, cars which we are very particular about, then those monthly car services will all buy the same few vehicles and we will lose a ton of variety. The Land Cruiser won't have 4-5 other vehicles to share costs with because half of them won't exist. Also, I don't think someone who might buy a Land Cruiser today for daily driving and the occasional adventure trip is going to buy a car service and a Land Cruiser. Owning an expensive toy like that will be a sign of affluence and wealth. The result is a Land Cruiser that requires a mortgage- or isn't produced at all.

I didn’t say we would like it. Just what I think will happen over the next 20 years. Many younger people don’t feel the same about car ownership than prior generations. And the expense of car ownership is huge for a big chunk of society. A car spends the vast majority of its time just sitting. This seems ripe for change when a human driver is not required.

Owning a car might become like owning a boat is today, an expensive luxury toy, especially if purchased new. Or maybe the change isn’t as dramatic and a family might find use for owning one car but the commute is autonomous service vehicle, which would increase efficiency as you could work on the way.

If I’m right, this will not be good for auto manufacturers, or for the variety of consumer vehicles.

 

[URJ150L]

Longer EV range and a bump in overall MPG. Supposedly they are also lighter...

How much mpg and weight improvement? Not challenging you… genuinely curious about all this

 

[Truck Enthusiast2]

It's interesting to see the diverse opinions here. While a 4-cylinder setup might feel less traditional, it's worth considering the advancements in turbocharging and hybrid technology. The torque figures are impressive, which could provide strong off-road capability. And remember, many legendary off-roaders were turbocharged. Also, the emphasis on torque over gas mileage in the hybrid system is a point to consider. It's all about finding the right balance between power, efficiency, and your personal preferences.

 

[Jetboy]

I feel there will be a complete revolution in the auto industry when fully autonomous vehicles are widespread. All this talk of universal charging stations etc, I’m not so sure. I anticipate the USA model of everyone owning 2 or 3 cars in a family, which sit idle in the driveway 90% of their life, will be over. You will have a monthly car service sending an autonomous vehicle to you when you need it…avoiding maintenance, insurance, and storage, and dramatically increasing the efficiency of use from each vehicle built.

Then you might own one adventure vehicle, for towing or off road if you are into that. Whether that adventure vehicle is efficient won’t matter much, to you or to the environment.

I go back and forth on this. In one sense it is the logical efficient choice. On the other side - people are disgusting. It's gross what they do in a taxi/Uber/bus even when there's a driver and other people. What they do in an autonomous car will be worse. I don't think a lot of people will be willing to share that experience. It's just the nature of American culture. Unless that changes I don't think shared cars will work.

 

[JohnPW]

I go back and forth on this. In one sense it is the logical efficient choice. On the other side - people are disgusting. It's gross what they do in a taxi/Uber/bus even when there's a driver and other people. What they do in an autonomous car will be worse. I don't think a lot of people will be willing to share that experience. It's just the nature of American culture. Unless that changes I don't think shared cars will work.

Maybe so but the autonomous taxis could have multiple cameras recording behavior and charging riders for damage as a part of the service contract. Human behavior improves quickly if poor behavior immediately costs money. You could get a rider review like Uber, and be kicked out of the program for low scores. There could be multiple price points at levels of luxury or newness of vehicle in the program. You make a valid point but it’s one that seems fixable.

 

[Soll]

As a European 4-cylinder turbo is pretty standard for me albeit diesel. Thats what the Hilux and Prado 90/120/150 have had for ages and they perform flawless. However I haven't been that impressed with the real world fuel consumption of Toyotas non-plugin hybrids like Rav4. Seems that a conventional turbo diesel get better fuel consumption. I'm all for new technology but I've opted for a pure EV (BMW I3) for daily driving locally and then have a turbo diesel 200 for long and remote travel. The I3 has been amazingly reliable and has cost basically zero in maintenance over the 4 years we had it. However adding a complex modern combustion engine to the mix I fear that the big benefits with electric power somewhat is lost. At this point I think I only would consider a hybrid power plant if its a plugin.

 

[subspd]

How much mpg and weight improvement? Not challenging you… genuinely curious about all this

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[Banandalorian]

Absolutely. Even if charging stations were as, plentiful as [gas stations] are now that won't help me when I'm driving away from civilization.
Gas is power dense and easy to pack. If I had an EV I'd have to trailer a generator to go where I like to go!

Unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in battery tech that comes to market an EV won't be good for me other than perhaps a commuter.

There is a reason that lots of people have purchased EVs, but very few only have EVs. The usual setup is a Tesla, a full sized SUV, a truck (or some off road thing) and then whatever cars their kids have.

 

[Knowbuddy]

There is a reason that lots of people have purchased EVs, but very few only have EVs. The usual setup is a Tesla, a full sized SUV, a truck (or some off road thing) and then whatever cars their kids have.

You’re right… i have a Tesla model 3 and an hj61 that currently doesn’t run

 

[M1911]

Stupid question (admittedly I haven't really searched this) - Will Toyota offer Android & Apple Carplay in the infotainment or are they staying with proprietary Toyota infotainment? From the press release, "Available 12.3-inch touchscreen displays latest Toyota Audio Multimedia system and Multi Terrain Monitor"

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Returns to its Origin - Toyota USA Newsroom

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (August 1, 2023) – Legends never die. Toyota’s off-road icon and longest-running nameplate is making a triumphant comeback to North America for the 2024 model year, returning to its rugged origin. Since its introduction in the […]

pressroom.toyota.com

It supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.

 

[M1911]

I am WAY far an expert, but my understanding is that the hybrid system in the LC250 is not the same exact implementation as of the Prius/Corolla/etc...

It's a very different system than the Prius/Corolla planetary gear system. In the Prius/Corolla system, the engine and electric motor are in parallel. Both drive a planetary gear. That is, the output gear from the engine engages the planetary gear. The output gear from the electric motor also engages the planetary gear.

In contrast, the mild hybrid system in Tundra, new Taco, and LC 250 has the engine and electric motor in series. The electric motor is literally sandwiched between the engine and the automatic transmission.

And as such, the strain in the hybrid battery won't be the same and / or as much as those vehicles. The way I understood it, it is more of a "soft" hybrid, and as such, I think the battery would be more than fine for a long time.

It is referred to as a "mild" hybrid system, not a "soft" hybrid.

 

[M1911]

Toyota’s hybrid system has not been implemented in a Toyota truck.

It is the same type of system in the Tundra and is also coming in the Taco.

It is new technology being implemented in a Toyota truck for the first time, using a new engine, in a new car.

It is not new technology. It is the same technology as the iForce Max in the Tundra. As i posted previously, mild hybrids are NOT new technology, dating back as far as 2008. Suppliers like Bosch have been building these components for automakers for some time. Mild hybrids are simpler than the parallel hybrids in cars like the Prius.

It is a new car and new engine. But that's it.

That is three concentric risk factors. You might want some risk in your portfolio but do you really want it in your garage? No. I
will wait at least 2-3 years, skip the intermediate, short term, stop gap hybrid tech and the Euro diesel motor to see how this all shakes out because the real prize here is full EV in our trucks with Toyota coming soon.

1) I never purchase the first year of a vehicle. It's not new technology that concerns me, it's all the little things that manufacturers will fix during the first year or two of production.

2) Hybrids aren't "short-term, stop gap" technology. For most drivers, a hybrid is a better alternative than a BEV. From a fleet perspective, hybrids are also better than BEVs -- batteries (and their required metals) are a scarce resource. We are better off increasing the fuel economy of the fleet by spreading hybrid technology across the fleet than we are building a small number of BEVs. The amount of batteries in a BEV is the same as the amount of batteries in ~50 hybrids. The impact on the climate from the 50 hybrids will be greater than the impact of 1 BEV.

 

[M1911]

I feel there will be a complete revolution in the auto industry when fully autonomous vehicles are widespread.

That's much farther away than Elon Musk claims. I will be surprised if we get their in my lifetime. People tend to compare fully autonomous cars to aircraft and say things like planes have autopilots so why not cars?

While planes maneuver in 3D and are much faster, the problem they are solving is, in essence, simpler. Aircraft only fly between a few thousand airports. There aren't any traffic lights in the air. There aren't any kids who might dart out between two parked airplanes into the path of a jetliner at 35,000'. There aren't emergency vehicles coming up behind you. There aren't parked delivery aircraft blocking your airway at 35,000'.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I feel there will be a complete revolution in the auto industry when fully autonomous vehicles are widespread. All this talk of universal charging stations etc, I’m not so sure. I anticipate the USA model of everyone owning 2 or 3 cars in a family, which sit idle in the driveway 90% of their life, will be over. You will have a monthly car service sending an autonomous vehicle to you when you need it…avoiding maintenance, insurance, and storage, and dramatically increasing the efficiency of use from each vehicle built.

Then you might own one adventure vehicle, for towing or off road if you are into that. Whether that adventure vehicle is efficient won’t matter much, to you or to the environment.

I don't think that Autonomous vehicles are going to be that popular.
For many people, the only time and place they feel where they have any control over their lives is when they are driving a car, and they will never give that up.

I think Autonomous vehicles will be popular for ride share or taxi service, but I doubt the majority of car buyers will be willing to pay $15k for a feature they have no desire to use unless it's mandated either by insurance companies or by legislation.

 

[M1911]

I don't think that Autonomous vehicles are going to be that popular.
For many people, the only time and place they feel where they have any control over their lives is when they are driving a car, and they will never give that up.

I think Autonomous vehicles will be popular for ride share or taxi service, but I doubt the majority of car buyers will be willing to pay $15k for a feature they have no desire to use unless it's mandated either by insurance companies or by legislation.

I would be fine with an autonomous vehicle as long as I could turn off the system. But as I said previously, I don't think we will see true autonomy in my lifetime.

My workplace is 15 miles from my house. It takes me about 1 hour to get there. You can do the math easily to determine my average speed. At least half of that commute is on the freeway, which is always stop-and-go during rush hour. I would be very happy if I could nap during the commute. But I'll be retired long before this is possible.

 

[NTTD]

And remember, many legendary off-roaders were turbocharged.

AND also just 4cyl small displacement.
I cut my teeth wheeling a 22RE in my '85 4runner (never should have sold her). To this day it's one of the most capable off-roaders I've owned.

As a European 4-cylinder turbo is pretty standard for me albeit diesel. Thats what the Hilux and Prado 90/120/150 have had for ages and they perform flawless. However I haven't been that impressed with the real world fuel consumption of Toyotas non-plugin hybrids like Rav4. Seems that a conventional turbo diesel get better fuel consumption. I'm all for new technology but I've opted for a pure EV (BMW I3) for daily driving locally and then have a turbo diesel 200 for long and remote travel. The I3 has been amazingly reliable and has cost basically zero in maintenance over the 4 years we had it. However adding a complex modern combustion engine to the mix I fear that the big benefits with electric power somewhat is lost. At this point I think I only would consider a hybrid power plant if its a plugin.

I don't think fuel consumption is the primary goal (the Sequoia is a prime example). I see it as meeting emission requirements while giving drivers the performance they desire. Fuel consumption is secondary.

I wish we'd get all the diesel options you guys have. I'd have all diesels if I could. We were actually starting to see some acceptance of diesel cars until VW went and screwed the pooch.

I think in the US the diesel ship has sailed, other than pickups and heavy vehicles it's pretty much done.

Hybrids aren't "short-term, stop gap" technology. For most drivers, a hybrid is a better alternative than a BEV

Agreed.
For my 4X4 at least, EV is not an option. I require range in the hundreds of miles away from any gas station. Add much more from any charger.

 

[Jetboy]

Maybe so but the autonomous taxis could have multiple cameras recording behavior and charging riders for damage as a part of the service contract. Human behavior improves quickly if poor behavior immediately costs money. You could get a rider review like Uber, and be kicked out of the program for low scores. There could be multiple price points at levels of luxury or newness of vehicle in the program. You make a valid point but it’s one that seems fixable.

I'm not sure it is fixable. It shouldn't be impossible for the greater society to act decently - but I'll bet against it happening. At least in the USA. In Japan or most of Europe? sure. Easy. Here - we can't even keep things in control in ubers where the car's owner is right there. And the urban social behavior tends to be the worst, which is also where they would be most valuable.
Multiple people admit having sex inside driverless cars during rides - https://www.newsweek.com/driverless-cars-sex-inside-admit-san-francisco-california-robotaxi-1820088 - do you want to be the next rider in the car with your 3 year old who's going to touch everthing? That's a hard pass for me.

 

[JohnPW]

I'm not sure it is fixable. It shouldn't be impossible for the greater society to act decently - but I'll bet against it happening. At least in the USA. In Japan or most of Europe? sure. Easy. Here - we can't even keep things in control in ubers where the car's owner is right there. And the urban social behavior tends to be the worst, which is also where they would be most valuable.
Multiple people admit having sex inside driverless cars during rides - https://www.newsweek.com/driverless-cars-sex-inside-admit-san-francisco-california-robotaxi-1820088 - do you want to be the next rider in the car with your 3 year old who's going to touch everthing? That's a hard pass for me.

I guess this thread title “4 banger LC” is appropriate. Again, I think if everything is recorded and there are financial, and hopefully legal ramifications for bad behavior, this is controllable.

In my city Uber cars are clean and nice without exception.